Afghan Fitter... Su-22, HobbyCraft 1/72 -- FINISHED at last!

[opus999]

This is a kit I got recently.  I was looking for a particular kit on ebay, and I found it for a terrific price bundled with this and an HobbyCraft Yak-38.  The price for the kit I was looking for was the cheapest I'd found which made the other 2 practically free.  You get what you pay for... the Yak-38 had terrible shape issues.  Of course, it was an old kit (circa 1985) so they probably didn't have much to work with in terms of references.  Still, I was able to build it up nicely.

 

This one has shape issues too (i've read), but they don't seem nearly as bad.  The kit compares favorably with pictures of the real thing except the tail fin seems a little short and the bulge in the back for the bigger engine seems a little big.  The biggest problem it has is a lack of detail.  The cockpit is just a seat and a crude instrument panel.  The landing gear wells are pretty crude and featureless.

 

Here's the box:

 

 

The painting instructions were extremely hard to interpret and researching on the internet turned up only more modern Libyan paint schemes.  When I finally found a Gulf of Sidra era paint scheme I found I liked the modern one better.  So, I'm going with it.  This is what it should look like:

 

Libyan Air Force Sukhoi Su-22M3 Lofting
Chris Lofting (GFDL 1.2 <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/fdl-1.2.html> or GFDL 1.2 <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/fdl-1.2.html>), via Wikimedia Commons

 

I've only found pictures of 307 and 311.  307 is the subject of one of Eduards' releases.  I only have numbers to make 303 (or 300, or 330).  It turns out that Libyan Fitters don't have a standardized paint scheme so that each one is unique.  Well... too bad, 303 is going to have 307's paint scheme!

 

I bought a fair amount of aftermarket to bring this kit a little more up to spec:

 

 

New wheels, a resin seat, an Eduard photoetch cockpit set and new decals.  On top of that, I'm going to make quite a few modifications:  1) the main wheel bays are featureless, so i'm going to try to replicate the distinctive Fitter wheel bay detail.  2) the front gear bay is nearly non-existent, so I'm going to try to make one 3) The distinctive hump behind the cockpit is missing, so I'm going to try to mold it with epoxy putty 4) The cockpit needs building up 5) various strange details need to be removed 6) The panel lines are deep, wide and inaccurate.

 

Whew!  That's a list....

 

So I'm starting with filling in the panel lines.  I will use my liquid CA and sanding method, which is tedious, but turns out nice at the end.  Here's what the panel lines look like:

 

 

 

I will also need to cut off the strange protuberance under the nose seen here:

 

 

I haven't found a picture of a Fitter yet with that bulge.  I'm not saying it doesn't exist, it just doesn't on the Libyan Fitters I've found pictures of.  The larger bump on the side has gotta go too.  As well as both of these bumps:

 

 

So, there's a lot of work cut out for me and I'm sure it's going to take a while.  I hope I can get it close to a somewhat modern modeling standard!

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

The ovoid shape just ahead of the wing is made of thicker stronger metal. Its a blast panel so the concussive force from the cannon doesn't damage anything internally. Ive seen them in both Bare metal and black so check the photo’s carefully.
 

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1703022

 

I found this photo of a Peruvian aircraft from the side. It has a NMF panel & also has the odd bulge under the nose ? Another thing being a thicker panel you may want to tape around the panel and use a layer of mr.surfacer, foil tape, kitchen foil, or something similar to make it stand proud ever so slightly. 

[RidgeRunner]

So, you are building an M3 or M2?  They are two different aircraft. I ask because you showed the under nose fairing which is not M3. The two nose shots yu show seem to show a different aircraft to the boxes! Note also that the Libyan machines are Tumansky powered and there is no kit that represents the larger rear end.

 

Edit: if it helps, here is the Fitter at Mitiga when I attended the show in 2007

 

 

 

[RidgeRunner]

9 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

The ovoid shape just ahead of the wing is made of thicker stronger metal. Its a blast panel so the concussive force from the cannon doesn't damage anything internally. Ive seen them in both Bare metal and black so check the photo’s carefully.
 

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1703022

 

I found this photo of a Peruvian aircraft from the side. It has a NMF panel & also has the odd bulge under the nose ? Another thing being a thicker panel you may want to tape around the panel and use a layer of mr.surfacer, foil tape, kitchen foil, or something similar to make it stand proud ever so slightly. 

for these plates @opus999 I used a template I made. I then used it to cut out the shape in silver decal sheet. I guess for those who have one, a cutter could do a good job of it too!

[RidgeRunner]

I got very confused with this. I now see that the Hobbycraft "Su-22 Fitter-F" that shows a Su-22M-3 on the box, is actually a "Su-22M-2"! 

[opus999]

12 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

I got very confused with this. I now see that the Hobbycraft "Su-22 Fitter-F" that shows a Su-22M-3 on the box, is actually a "Su-22M-2"! 

 

Indeed!  I didn't know that (being new to Fitters).  The model's shape really improved when I compared it to the correct variant! According to Wikipedia the fairing under the nose is for a DISS-7 Doppler navigation radar.

 

Looking at my browser history, I was researching M3 vs. M4, which would explain why I didn't see any pics of M2 with under nose fariings!

 

Finding pictures of M2's with the under nose fairing on the internet doesn't produce much variety  I found Soviet, a lot of Peruvian and one Afghani.  No Libyan.  Looking at instructions on Scalemates provided painting instructions for M2's with under nose fairings for Peru, Ukraine, Afghanistan and Libya

 

I am now in a bit of a quandary.  I have decals for

• Ukraine (with numbers that are the wrong shape and don't match the numbers on the real aircraft... )
• Afghanistan (but for an M4, so the numbers don't match the instructions)
• Libya (the profile I found has some black Arabic characters on the tail and nose, but they are in the brown area so are hard to see)

I have the paints for all these and I have the desire to do all of them!  So, what should it be?  I'm discounting Ukraine because the numbers are just too different in style.  Afghanistan would have incorrect numbers, and I can't actually find a picture of a Fitter D in Afghanistan except for one picture at the bottom of this page http://www.easternorbat.com/html/afghan_su-7_fitter_history_eng.html which has a very different camo scheme.  For Libya, someone posted a profile from a book (Sukhoi Su-7/-17/-20/-22 - Soviet Fighter and Fighter-Bomber Family" by Yefim Gordon) and so I'd like to think its accurate, but I've been burned before.

 

So It's down to Libya and Afghanistan, but I'd love to have photographic proof of either one. An M2 with an under nose fairing.  Unfortunately, no matter what I choose, I'm going to have to accept that its somewhat inaccurate because of numbers.

 

If anyone has some better evidence or pictures (or can point me to some) for either Libya or Afghan M2's I'd really appreciate it!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, opus999 said:

 

Indeed!  I didn't know that (being new to Fitters).  The model's shape really improved when I compared it to the correct variant! According to Wikipedia the fairing under the nose is for a DISS-7 Doppler navigation radar.

 

Looking at my browser history, I was researching M3 vs. M4, which would explain why I didn't see any pics of M2 with under nose fariings!

 

Finding pictures of M2's with the under nose fairing on the internet doesn't produce much variety  I found Soviet, a lot of Peruvian and one Afghani.  No Libyan.  Looking at instructions on Scalemates provided painting instructions for M2's with under nose fairings for Peru, Ukraine, Afghanistan and Libya

 

I am now in a bit of a quandary.  I have decals for

• Ukraine (with numbers that are the wrong shape and don't match the numbers on the real aircraft... )
• Afghanistan (but for an M4, so the numbers don't match the instructions)
• Libya (the profile I found has some black Arabic characters on the tail and nose, but they are in the brown area so are hard to see)

I have the paints for all these and I have the desire to do all of them!  So, what should it be?  I'm discounting Ukraine because the numbers are just too different in style.  Afghanistan would have incorrect numbers, and I can't actually find a picture of a Fitter D in Afghanistan except for one picture at the bottom of this page http://www.easternorbat.com/html/afghan_su-7_fitter_history_eng.html which has a very different camo scheme.  For Libya, someone posted a profile from a book (Sukhoi Su-7/-17/-20/-22 - Soviet Fighter and Fighter-Bomber Family" by Yefim Gordon) and so I'd like to think its accurate, but I've been burned before.

 

So It's down to Libya and Afghanistan, but I'd love to have photographic proof of either one. An M2 with an under nose fairing.  Unfortunately, no matter what I choose, I'm going to have to accept that its somewhat inaccurate because of numbers.

 

If anyone has some better evidence or pictures (or can point me to some) for either Libya or Afghan M2's I'd really appreciate it!

I can take a look but no guarantee’s, my main interest in the Sukhoi’s are of Polish use. 

[RidgeRunner]

Give me a day @opus999 and I will find something for you

 

Maybe @Linescriber or @Stilwell has something to help you?

[RidgeRunner]

1 hour ago, RidgeRunner said:

Give me a day @opus999 and I will find something for you

Sorry mate but it seems I’ve failed you ;(. I can only find a rough B&W photo and the profile that you mention. . The photo shows a machine with Arabic numbering which, I think is 5814. Remember, you are still talking Tumansky-engined aircraft and that kit is not one of those. Vespa have recently brought out a conversion in 1/72. Mine is in the post  . They have decals due soon too, inc Libya! 

[opus999]

16 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

Sorry mate but it seems I’ve failed you ;(. I can only find a rough B&W photo and the profile that you mention. . The photo shows a machine with Arabic numbering which, I think is 5814. Remember, you are still talking Tumansky-engined aircraft and that kit is not one of those. Vespa have recently brought out a conversion in 1/72. Mine is in the post  . They have decals due soon too, inc Libya! 

 

Hey, thanks for looking!  I need to find a book. 🤔

 

I looked at the Vespa conversion kit, and was really impressed, but wow, it would be $50 after shipping... I'm not sure this is a nice enough model to warrant that kind of expenditure.  Maybe a Smer or something like that would be worth it.

 

Just changing tack here... If the back end is anemic for a Tumansky engine, is it OK for a Lyulka engined Su-17?  Comparing with a diagram I found comparing Tumansky and Lyulka engined Sukhois, it looks like its not quite right for either. Of course, there may be other features that I'm not aware of between the two types (the air scoops around the engine look different.

 

Hmm... decisions... decisions.

[opus999]

I think I'm going to plow ahead with what I've got and just try to make the most of it, within reason.  I've set my eyes on a better kit, this time of an M4, which I think looks more menacing than the earlier Su-17/22's. So whenever I get that, I'll put more energy into making that one accurate.

 

I've also decided to do the Afghan Fitter.  I don't have any solid photographic evidence, but there seems to be enough anecdotal evidence to make me think that they probably did fly M2's in the scheme that I've chosen.  If not, well, there's enough inaccuracies in this kit, what's one more?

[opus999]

I finished filling the panel lines today.  I had to cut a couple of protrusions off the sides to match the Su-22M2 photos I found. After that I was able to sand down to 6000 grit

 

 

 

Then I set to working on the cockpit.  I forgot to take a picture, but it's safe to say the cockpit consists of a seat and an instrument panel.  Not even a stick.  I bought an Eduard photo etch cockpit set made for a Modelsvit kit, but figured I could make it work.  Since there is no cockpit detail I had to scratch build my own:

 

 

 

Dry fitting it into the cockpit with the True Detail resin seat, it looks pretty good!

 

 

 

 

 

I have to make the other side and then find some paint to match the color Eduard used so I can paint the rest of te cockpit.  Then its onto the seat!

[opus999]

I didn't get a whole lot done this weekend.  I did manage to get the seat painted... it looks better in real life than in macro... 😕

 

 

I think I have the wrong seat despite all my research a few months ago.  Nuts.

 

In preparation for putting the two fuselage halves together I had to block up the tail pipe or else you'd be able to see all the way to the cockpit.

 

 

While the fuselage seams are really not bad at all, the inside of the intake has a big old seam.  Of course, it should be completely open being an intake, but I couldn't figure out a way to do that and still fit the inner cone in.  So, I guess it will take some creative painting. 

 

 

To eliminate the seam I put a back stop for filler:

 

 

in order to mount the instrument panel I had to devise a way to get around the curved surface of the fuselage.  So I stacked styrene rod like logs and made sure they were lined up flat, and put plenty of Tamiya extra thin on.

 

 

I got the side panels painted and glued in.  RLM 76 was the closest I could find to match the photo etch.

 

 

That gap in the floor will be covered with a thin sheet of styrene that I cut to size and painted.

 

The surprise of the day came when I went to put the wing assembly together.  When the wing is in the fully swept back position, the seam doesn't close!

 

 

That took a lot of sanding to make work last night and I'm not completely done yet.

[RidgeRunner]

Slowly, slowly ...... You're getting there

[opus999]

Not much to report. I did a lot of sanding to get the swing wings to fit properly in the fixed wing assemblies.  They fit as expected now.  I then filled in the panel lines, which took a lot longer with the wings than with the fuselage for some reason.

 

 

 

 

I see in that second photo that I may need to do yet another round of CA and sanding.

 

Beyond that, this is going to be put on hold for a couple of days.  I ordered a Master Craft Fitter K from ebay and I'm expecting it some time this weekend.  Now that I know more about Fitters, it turns out it was the Fitter K that I really wanted to do -- I think it looks pretty burly and mean.  I'll use it as a template for some of the detail that I'm going to put in the Afghan fitter, such as panel lines and wheel well detail.  First though, I need to look at it to determine how to rescribe the ailerons and flaps because they just didn't look right and I ended up filling most of them in anyway.  So until that gets resolved, there's not too much I can do in the meantime!

[opus999]

My second Fitter arrived earlier than expected, so I was able to resume work today.

 

 

I filled in some of the aileron panel lines of my Fitter based on the new kit and had to scribe a couple new lines as well.  Couldn't really take a picture of this.

 

Next, I had to deal with the ridiculous placement of the main gears

 

 

I put a backstop in so that I can fill the holes and will place the landing gears in more accurate locations.

 

 

After all of that, I was able to glue the wing assemblies together and glue the horizontal stabilizers together as well.

 

 

My next task will be to figure out how much weight needs to go in the nose to prevent tail-sitting.  This will be tricky because I need to figure out a way to temporarily attach the wing assemblies.   I suppose I could permanently attach them first, but I feel funny doing that because I'm not sure I'll be able to get them lined up right since there's a lot of play in the join.

 

Speaking of... I dry fit the wing assemblies and discovered that the "socket" cut into the fuselage for the wing assembly is about a couple of millimeters too short!

 

 

It's hard to see but the wing trailing edge is actually farther aft than the groove its supposed to fit into.  You might see it better with the leading edge:

 

 

Bet you didn't know that they fit Howitzers to the Fitter.  Those guns are going to have to come off and be replaced.

 

I elongated one of the wing assembly grooves.  hard to see here, but I added a couple of millimeters toward the back:

 

 

With all this fettling, I didn't achieve my goal of getting the fuselage together today.  There's still some clean-up sanding that needs to take place on the wing assemblies, and I am going to attempt to add some main gear detail.  Ideally, I can get the fueslage together and the wings on tomorrow, but given how much fixing I've had to do on this kit I may not make it.

 

You get what you pay for and this kit was ...   practically free! 🤔

[Robin-42]

I just tape the whole ting together to figure out nose weights. Thanks for this thread, I had always figured this kit was a dog, but at least it’s not totally horrible. I have the Modelsivit one on the stash, I think I will stick with that one though!

[opus999]

5 hours ago, Robin-42 said:

I just tape the whole ting together to figure out nose weights. Thanks for this thread, I had always figured this kit was a dog, but at least it’s not totally horrible. I have the Modelsivit one on the stash, I think I will stick with that one though!

 

Good choice! 

 

I agree that lots of tape will probably be the solution.  It just has a lot of play so I think it's going to take a lot of tape!

 

I didn't know anything about this kit until after I bought it because (like I mentioned at the beginning) it was an afterthought bundled with a kit I really wanted.  I wouldn't be happy if I spent money on it! But, I like a challenge and I hope to make it look as good as possible...

[bigbadbadge]

Nice eork fettling the Cockpit Opus999,  looks great and looking forward to your trademark pencil panel lines.

Great work so far.  I tried adding likes to your posts and it took them away a short time after, not sure what is happening there.

Chris

[opus999]

5 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

Nice eork fettling the Cockpit Opus999,  looks great and looking forward to your trademark pencil panel lines.

Great work so far.  I tried adding likes to your posts and it took them away a short time after, not sure what is happening there.

Chris

Thanks Chris!  Its been a challenge, but a fun one so far.  I may feel differently if it goes on for another month... 🤣

 

Today I set to putting some detail in the wheel well.  If I had my wits about me, I would've cut the wheel well out of the bottom half of the wing to make it more realistic, since it is too shallow as is.  Of course, I'm thinking of this as I write, so there you go.

 

The Sukhois seem to have a distinctive raised pattern in the wheel well.  This is what I was going to try and emulate.  I started with lead wire and guess what an appropriate diameter circle might be and fit the wire to it like so:

 

 

It's the 11/32" circle, if you're finding it hard to see.  Here's what I ended up with:

 

 

I used a smaller diameter wire and a smaller diameter hole and repeated the procedure for this:

 

 

I used the smallest strip styrene I had, plus the smallest diameter lead wire to finish off the details:

 

 

Cutting those little cross members was the biggest pain of the whole project so far.

 

I did the other side, which (naturally) didn't turn out quite as well.  But it went faster because I knew what I was doing.

 

 

This is good experience, because I will need to do the same for the Fitter K I just got in the mail, and in an Su-15 that I sort of started on Friday.

 

I had to sand the seam in the wing fences

 

 

 

I finished off the day with dry fitting the whole a/c together with a lot of tape to figure out the nose weight.  Turned out to be 10g, which is what the Master Craft Fitter K calls for, so I must be doing something right.  I used Apoxie Sculpt to "glue" the weight in.

 

 

Still didn't get to putting the fuselage together, but that's the very next thing I have to do.  It will be Tuesday night since the kids will be Trick or Treating tomorrow night!

[RidgeRunner]

Hiya! Did I miss something? What are the "sprue" protrusions ahead of the wing roots? 

 

Martin

 

[Jabba]

1 hour ago, RidgeRunner said:

Hiya! Did I miss something? What are the "sprue" protrusions ahead of the wing roots? 

 

Martin

 

They are meant by the kit to represent to guns. 

[RidgeRunner]

5 hours ago, Jabba said:

They are meant by the kit to represent to guns. 

Oh dear

[opus999]

10 hours ago, Jabba said:

They are meant by the kit to represent to guns. 

Yeah, that's why I made the joke on Sunday about howitzers. 🙂

 

Never fear, I cut those off yesterday and sanded the leading edges smooth.  I've got some suitably sized replacements ready to install in their place.

[opus999]

Hooray!