Scale ModelWorld 2022

[spruecutter96]

14 hours ago, John Tapsell said:

Ultimately We are working on some possible options to encourage some of those traders to return and/or find new ones, but we don't know how successful that will be. Some of the overseas traders were unable to come because of

To be frank, John., there's only one genuine way of encouraging a higher number of traders - lower the table-rates. I have talked to many traders and it obvious that they just "grin-and-bear" the Telford table-rates, but IPMS should never make the assumption that traders are happy about the fees they are paying. Of course, when IPMS management talk to the traders, they'll get the impression that everything's fine, but that's more about "not rocking the boat" and building relationships than being completely truthful.   

 

Yes, Telford is a huge show, but being a trader there costs so much more than any other show. Traders always have to balance operating-costs against their turn-over, it goes without saying.

 

If the promised deep recession happens next year - as is looking extremely likely - traders are going to have a dreadful 2023. I hate to say it, but I would predict that next year's Telford will see lower trader-numbers than this year, as many sellers will simply not be able to afford attending, after having been to many shows during the year with very low returns. Having a show with hundreds of punters who are simply window-shopping, with no real cash to spare, will have a serious adverse effect on SMW traders.

 

I hope I'm wrong in these predictions - I really do. 

 

Having said all that, next year I will be very happy to see the return of the Kit Swap (if, indeed, it does come back). I have really missed it in the last few years. 

 

Cheers.

 

Chris.  

     

[Flying Badger]

What was the "Life's a Beach" stand about? I spotted it on the way in and meant to go back and find out more but time just got away from me. Not listed in the Groups or SIGs so I'm curious what it was about. Anyone help? (photos?)

Thanks

[spitfire]

Here you go, nothing complicated

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[John Tapsell]

3 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

To be frank, John., there's only one genuine way of encouraging a higher number of traders - lower the table-rates.

 

There you hit on the nub of the problem (and to be clear, I don't disagree with you).

 

A show the size of SMW is a massive finacial undertaking. so we have to generate sufficient income to cover our costs. There are are currently only two sources of that type of income - trader fees and public entry tickets. There is a limit to how far those can be pushed up before they become counter-productive.

 

Lower trader fees might encourage more interest but would mean less income for the given space - if we have space for 100 traders for example, charging them less won't generate more space, so we'd have to sacrifice space that we currently use for other purposes to fit in more traders. That would change the style of the show so we can't fit more traders in unless we fundamentally change the balance of the show.

 

The same is true of the public entrance fees - if they increase too much, less people will come, but if they are too low, they won't generate the necessary income to offset the fees we charge traders.

 

There is a balance to be had between lower trader fees, the public entrance fee and other forms of income. Finding that balance isn't easy and we don't have a magic solution.

So I'll throw it open - How would you finance a show the size and format of SMW?

[John Tapsell]

19 minutes ago, Flying Badger said:

What was the "Life's a Beach" stand about? I spotted it on the way in and meant to go back and find out more but time just got away from me. Not listed in the Groups or SIGs so I'm curious what it was about. Anyone help? (photos?)

Thanks

It was the IPMS North Somerset Branch display. Many Branches theme their displays each year but North Somerset have a reputation for taking that to the next level and are multiple winners of our Jesse Wright Trophy, awarded each year for the Best Branch Display (including this year). The trophy isn't about having the best models on the table, it's about how Branches represent our values - how they engage with the passers-by, how they encourage people to get involved, making sure that the display is staffed at all times, being friendly, welcoming and not being judgmental - most of all, the show how much fun they have as modellers. It demonstrates the nature and character of Jesse Wright, who was our Membership Secretary for many years and did so much to promote the Society. We have a similar award for the Best Special Interest Group display

 

On two occasions when North Somerset have won the trophy, my own Branch has been located next to them, so we know their approach of old. The curious thing is that for all that it can be frustrating to be next to them when they do one of their 'specials' (because your own themed display can often be ignored), it has changed the way we present ourselves at shows. We are far more active about being in front of the stand, talking with the visitors and just being involved, rather than being a bunch of people sat behind their stand, trying to ignore the passers-by.

[Flying Badger]

Thanks John, for the explanation (And to Spitfire for the photos. That makes more sense now.

 

I saw the blow up seagulls and made a mental note to go back and find out what the hell that was all about  but then time got away from me spending too much money and talking to long to likeminded people on stands and before I knew it it was 4pm and time to dash to get back for my little ones bath & Bed routine and it was as I was heading for the car that I remembered the seagulls.

 

I'll make a mental note to look out for Somerset Branch next year.

[IanHx]

1 hour ago, John Tapsell said:

There you hit on the nub of the problem (and to be clear, I don't disagree with you).

 

A show the size of SMW is a massive finacial undertaking. so we have to generate sufficient income to cover our costs. There are are currently only two sources of that type of income - trader fees and public entry tickets. There is a limit to how far those can be pushed up before they become counter-productive.

 

Lower trader fees might encourage more interest but would mean less income for the given space - if we have space for 100 traders for example, charging them less won't generate more space, so we'd have to sacrifice space that we currently use for other purposes to fit in more traders. That would change the style of the show so we can't fit more traders in unless we fundamentally change the balance of the show.

 

The same is true of the public entrance fees - if they increase too much, less people will come, but if they are too low, they won't generate the necessary income to offset the fees we charge traders.

 

There is a balance to be had between lower trader fees, the public entrance fee and other forms of income. Finding that balance isn't easy and we don't have a magic solution.

So I'll throw it open - How would you finance a show the size and format of SMW?

 

Depends if we're ever going to see a return to the scale of show pre-pandemic.

Maybe we're only looking at a 2-hall show in future, in which case is a smaller, cheaper venue more appropriate ?

 

Would be interesting to see what the visitor numbers were like ,  to see if somewhere like eg RAF Cosford could cope with the visitor numbers.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by IanHx

[Procopius]

1 hour ago, IanHx said:

 

Depends if we're ever going to see a return to the scale of show pre-pandemic.

Maybe we're only looking at a 2-hall show in future, in which case is a smaller, cheaper venue more appropriate ?

 

Would be interesting to see what the visitor numbers were like ,  to see if somewhere like eg RAF Cosford could cope with the visitor numbers.

 

 

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but I do rather suspect things peaked in 2019, and not solely because I graced SMW for the first time: there's an economic downturn that seems to be a-brewin' globally, there've been three solid years of supply chain disruptions, and international travel has been badly knocked about. It will likely be several years at least before the wheel turns anew.

[Noel Smith]

IPMS has a contractual agreement with Telford International Centre going a few years forward I believe.

Non IPMS members posting on here will probably not know the cost of hiring the venue, but IPMS members should if they read the annual statement of accounts that each and every member receives each year.

John Tapsell has already outlined what has to be done each year to keep the show viable. Looking at the enormous cost of this event, IPMS became a limited company for good reason a number of years back.

Covid and Brexit regulations have both contributed to a partial loss in traders unfortunately.

[spruecutter96]

3 hours ago, John Tapsell said:

So I'll throw it open - How would you finance a show the size and format of SMW?

Sponsorship. It might not generate tens-of-thousands of pounds, but surely "every little helps"? 

 

Also, how about offering smaller traders the option to trade on the Saturday only, at a significantly reduced rate? I can imagine this might cause sone bad feelings from the traders who pay for the entire weekend, but I would have thought it would greatly encourage the "one-man band" sellers to be at the show. In the show's promotional material, make it very obvious that a particular trader will not be there on the Sunday and the more "show-casual" punters can make a fully-informed choice as to the one day that they attend.

 

I fully appreciate that there will be a number of "Pros and Cons" to this idea. It certainly ain't perfect, by any means, but I genuinely think it would bring IPMS UK some more revenue.  

 

OR.... how about the option to offer the traders the option to be there either Saturday OR Sunday, again at a reduced rate? Make the Sunday rate significantly lower than the Saturday one, in acknowledgment that the second day generally sees fewer punters? Crazy idea?

 

Perhaps the tables occupied by the first "one-dayers" can then be used by the next wave of traders on the Sunday. Limiting the number of tables offered for one-day use? Would that make any sense? It would reduce the table-hire costs at the very least. 

 

Some things to mull over...

 

Chris. 

[John Tapsell]

3 hours ago, IanHx said:

 

Depends if we're ever going to see a return to the scale of show pre-pandemic.

Maybe we're only looking at a 2-hall show in future, in which case is a smaller, cheaper venue more appropriate ?

 

Would be interesting to see what the visitor numbers were like ,  to see if somewhere like eg RAF Cosford could cope with the visitor numbers.

 

 Visitor figures were up on last year but down on 2019

 

10,000 in 2019

6,500  in 2021

9,000 this year.

 

It's important to put that in context. We have always said that we didn't expect to be back to full operating levels this year but are aiming to be there for 2023.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by John Tapsell

[Noel Smith]

Chris, offering small traders the option  of trading either on the Saturday or Sunday is a non starter.

Think of the disruption this would cause for the breakdowns and setups to take place. The centre would not want people faffing  around setting up of breaking down after the show closure on Saturday or before it opens on the Sunday as this would exceed the booked hours for the venue.

Costs to traders are reviewed regularly as they have to turn in a reasonable profit to come at all. One has to remember that traders have on costs like fuel, wages and hotel bills etc. This has To come out of their turnover for the weekend on top of their trading fee To IPMS. To us punters it is just a weekend away but they are working.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Noel Smith

[IanHx]

9 minutes ago, John Tapsell said:

 Visitor figures were up on last year but down on 2019

 

10,000 in 2019

6,500  in 2021

9,000 this year.

 

It's important to put that in context. We have always said that we didn't expect to be back to full operating levels this year but are aiming to be there for 2023.

 

Thanks John, that provides some much-needed context.

This year not bad at all, in the grand scheme of things.

Hopefully 2023 brings more traders and more visitors.

[mick b]

8 minutes ago, Noel Smith said:

Chris, offering small traders the option  of trading either on the Saturday or Sunday is a non starter.

Think of the disruption this would cause for the breakdowns and setups to take place. The centre would not want people faffing  around setting up of breaking down after the show closure on Saturday or before it opens on the Sunday as this would exceed the booked hours for the venue.

Well I know of one trader who definitely only attends on Saturday so the option is there surely?

 

Mike

[Jon Bryon]

IPMS membership could be variegated so that people can tailor what they're paying for to what they want from the Society, e.g.

IPMS membership + magazine £X (where X might be around 25)
IPMS membership + free entry into SMW £X (where this would be less than public on-the-day admission, e.g. £25 for both days)

IPMS membership + magazine + free entry £2X-Y (where Y is small)

 

And then consider a fee for competition entry, or make that a benefit for one of the membership options with those who don't take that option up paying a small fee.

 

Is there any possibility IPMS can become a charity? (Bit of a stretch, but you never know...)

 

Can more be done using novel routes of advertising within the hobby?  The US Nats, for example, hit the podcasts very hard and moved the needle on attendance simply through that method of free (or very cheap) publicity. IPMS UK, OTOH, has almost no visibility in that sphere.

 

I really believe in the need for SMW and hope it returns to the level of 2019. If it fades away it will damage the hobby in this country at large, even if individuals feel it won't affect them. 

 

Jon

[John Tapsell]

56 minutes ago, spruecutter96 said:

Sponsorship. It might not generate tens-of-thousands of pounds, but surely "every little helps"? 

 

Also, how about offering smaller traders the option to trade on the Saturday only, at a significantly reduced rate? I can imagine this might cause sone bad feelings from the traders who pay for the entire weekend, but I would have thought it would greatly encourage the "one-man band" sellers to be at the show. In the show's promotional material, make it very obvious that a particular trader will not be there on the Sunday and the more "show-casual" punters can make a fully-informed choice as to the one day that they attend.

 

I fully appreciate that there will be a number of "Pros and Cons" to this idea. It certainly ain't perfect, by any means, but I genuinely think it would bring IPMS UK some more revenue.  

 

OR.... how about the option to offer the traders the option to be there either Saturday OR Sunday, again at a reduced rate? Make the Sunday rate significantly lower than the Saturday one, in acknowledgment that the second day generally sees fewer punters? Crazy idea?

 

Perhaps the tables occupied by the first "one-dayers" can then be used by the next wave of traders on the Sunday. Limiting the number of tables offered for one-day use? Would that make any sense? It would reduce the table-hire costs at the very least. 

 

Some things to mull over...

 

Chris. 

Some good points there.

 

We already accommodate some 'one day' traders - not many but they have been a feature for many years. We generally locate them adjacent to exit points (fire doors) to minimise disruption. Expanding on that would be a greater challenge but might be an idea.

 

We've explored sponsorship but we don't have the pulling power to bring in larger deals. Small amounts help and that's an avenue we are exploring for specific features of the show. 

 

We are also working on some ideas that have come from the traders themselves and I think that's an important step.

[John Tapsell]

3 minutes ago, Jon Bryon said:

IPMS membership could be variegated so that people can tailor what they're paying for to what they want from the Society, e.g.

IPMS membership + magazine £X (where X might be around 25)
IPMS membership + free entry into SMW £X (where this would be less than public on-the-day admission, e.g. £25 for both days)

IPMS membership + magazine + free entry £2X-Y (where Y is small)

 

And then consider a fee for competition entry, or make that a benefit for one of the membership options with those who don't take that option up paying a small fee.

 

Is there any possibility IPMS can become a charity? (Bit of a stretch, but you never know...)

 

Can more be done using novel routes of advertising within the hobby?  The US Nats, for example, hit the podcasts very hard and moved the needle on attendance simply through that method of free (or very cheap) publicity. IPMS UK, OTOH, has almost no visibility in that sphere.

 

I really believe in the need for SMW and hope it returns to the level of 2019. If it fades away it will damage the hobby in this country at large, even if individuals feel it won't affect them. 

 

Jon

We've charged competiton fees in the past.

A variable membership fee would cause greater problems than it solves, not just for SMW but the Society as a whole. We've looked at it in the last year or two and dismissed it for the moment.

 

I take it you haven't seen the extensive coverage that the Plastic Posse Podcast have been generating from the show this year on their facebook page? They'll also be doing a post-SMW wash-up podcast at some point.

 

However, you are correct in saying it's not an area we have explored in detail. Conversely, several of our Board spent a couple of hours exchanging ideas with our colleagues in IPMS USA on Saturday (two of them attended SMW in person). It's the first time that type of meeting has ever happened and I think both parties found it immensely valuable to compare notes. The crucial thing though is finding the resources (ie volunteers) who are prepared to manage and generate suitable podcast-friendly content for the long term - watch this space...

[Tim R-T-C]

I think variegated membership would get very messy.

 

1) there may be lots of members who don't attend and will pay less, reducing society funds.

 

2) it means entry isn't 'free' any more, it has a determinable value.

 

3) there will be members trying to add on admission at a late date if they were not expecting to make it and conversely members wanting refund if they cannot make it

 

 

As for podcasts and social media, there has been an explosion of coverage this year on many social media channels which hopefully will start to get more modellers interested. Lots of modelling personalities with big (for the niche hobby) followings attended, so hopefully that will help.

[DefoNotTheCIA]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:54 PM, spitfire said:

Had a great day no kits for me to buy (yet), just some "essential" supplies, still sorting out my photos but will post some when I can, here are a couple of my favourites, the Lancaster was most impressive.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

is that juniors model yours? mine was the chinook to the right, had to leave it in trusted hands for the 2nd day. still no idea if it got anything, u got any idea? thanks

 

[DefoNotTheCIA]

speaking of does anyone know what the juniors chinoo got 

thanks

[Jon Bryon]

1 hour ago, John Tapsell said:

...

 

I take it you haven't seen the extensive coverage that the Plastic Posse Podcast have been generating from the show this year on their facebook page? They'll also be doing a post-SMW wash-up podcast at some point.

 

However, you are correct in saying it's not an area we have explored in detail. Conversely, several of our Board spent a couple of hours exchanging ideas with our colleagues in IPMS USA on Saturday (two of them attended SMW in person). It's the first time that type of meeting has ever happened and I think both parties found it immensely valuable to compare notes. The crucial thing though is finding the resources (ie volunteers) who are prepared to manage and generate suitable podcast-friendly content for the long term - watch this space...

 

Thanks for the extensive reply - I appreciate it. I am aware of the PPP, and when I was interviewed by them in September, Telford formed a significant part of the conversation. I also took John Bonanni from Heathrow to Telford and obviously chatted about it on the way. I think the stuff they did, and that in conjunction with Black Rifle Model Worx, was excellent and hopefully made a difference, but as you acknowledge there's more to explore. The US podcasts had a lot of IMPS officials on, and one is hosted by an IPMS board member IIRC, so that's something that maybe could developed, although I definitely appreciate the podcast world is not UK-centric, sort of a mirror image of the magazine world.

It sounds like there's more on the horizon, which would be great.

 

Good luck!

 

Jon 

[Jon Bryon]

31 minutes ago, Tim R-T-C said:

I think variegated membership would get very messy.

 

 

Indeed. My suspicion is that in the current climate, £25 for a magazine and free entry to Telford is impossible without very significant changes somewhere. I very much hope the EB prove me wrong.

 

Jon

[John Tapsell]

16 minutes ago, Jon Bryon said:

 

and one is hosted by an IPMS board member IIRC...

Yep - that would be John Bonnani and PPP. He was part of the meeting we had and that's why the subject was covered in some detail, specifically because we were asking questions. We're behind the curve in SMW coverage compared to the indpendent podcasters and Youtubers and we need to be taking ownership of our own coverage.

[Jon Bryon]

28 minutes ago, John Tapsell said:

Yep - that would be John Bonnani and PPP. He was part of the meeting we had and that's why the subject was covered in some detail, specifically because we were asking questions. We're behind the curve in SMW coverage compared to the indpendent podcasters and Youtubers and we need to be taking ownership of our own coverage.

 

I was thinking more of David Knights on the Plastic Model Mojo. He's an IPMS USA officer. 

 

Jon

[rayprit]

Would a return to Stoneleigh or Castle Donnington be possible...............maybe cheaper