Beaufort Mk Ia ? and Beauforts in South East Asia Command

[russ c]

Hi,

Just picked up ICM`s Beaufort Mk I kit, with the intention of adding it to my CBI theme of builds. Been `Googling` and `Binging` for hours on end and come up short on the subject.

First: Mk Ia? referred to a lot but doesn`t seem to exist as an official version, was thinking that they were Taurus engined  Mk II`s and called Ia`s when the Pratt and Witney engined airframes became the definite Mk II`s?

 

Second: with the dearth of photographs was stuck for a subject, so got the Xtradecal set which has got markings for an aircraft of 217 Squadron in Dark Green over Medium Grey scheme, but apart from a few profiles of the same subject still can`t find any photo`s of the actual thing. I`ve seen the Warpaint Beaufort and managed to get hold of a copy of the Beaufort Special book, but still zilch. If any one could point me in the direction of photo`s of the 217 or in fact any SEAC/CBI Beauforts I`d be very grateful.

 

Third: the instructions for the Xtradecals 217 Sq subject, show a single forward pointing nose gun but could only find lots of photo`s of either; none or two guns in the nose. Would the single nose gun be correct or two?

 

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide

Cheers Russ

 

[dogsbody]

From the IWM:

 

Beaufort I W6537/OA-F of No 22 Squadron starting up at St Eval, December 1941. The accumulator trolley in the foreground supplied the necessary electrical power to the aircraft and was disconnected once the engines were running. Unlike other Beaufort squadrons, No 22 fitted a Vickers 'K' gun in the nose compartment of its aircraft, to be used for flak-suppression during low-level attacks.

 

 

 

Chris

[amos brierley]

Hi everyone. 
 

I’ve got similar questions, but have been beaten to the punch.

 

The ICM kit is a Mk 1.

 

But the Xtradecal schemes are described as Mk1 and Mk 1A , so, what are the differences?

 

😉

[brewerjerry]

Hi

   The Air Britain beaufort book captions some beauforts as MkI A and MkIIA 

 

warpaint beaufort shows MkIA as twin nose guns, rear facing chin turret,streamlined D/F loop housing and bristol turret, otherwise same as MkI 

And bristol taurus VI or XII engines

 

      cheers

         jerry

 

PS

    D/F loop fairing appears to be the clue as to it being a MkIA, going by photo captions etc 

Edited October 10, 2022 by brewerjerry
extra info

[Selwyn]

IIRC the addition of the semicircular plates on the trailing edges of Mk1 made them 1A.

 

Selwyn

[brewerjerry]

1 hour ago, amos brierley said:

Hi everyone. 
 

I’ve got similar questions, but have been beaten to the punch.

 

The ICM kit is a Mk 1.

 

But the Xtradecal schemes are described as Mk1 and Mk 1A , so, what are the differences?

 

😉

Hi

     It appears to me that the shaded out parts in the instructions are the D/F loop fairings for the MKiA 

 

  so i think a MkIA can be made from the current boxing

 

    cheers

       jerry

Edited October 10, 2022 by brewerjerry

[brewerjerry]

On 10/10/2022 at 2:55 PM, Selwyn said:

IIRC the addition of the semicircular plates on the trailing edges of Mk1 made them 1A.

 

Selwyn

Hi

 

    please ignore i didn't know what i was talking about

 

   see comments in post below in thread by dave swindell

 

 

 

 

 

 

    semi circular plates were :-

 

    Fairey-Youngman pneumatic dive brakes fitted to trailing edges of several Beaufort IIs first, then retro on some Mk I's  IA's , but locked shut after not favourable in service reports 

 

     cheers

         jerry 

Edited October 12, 2022 by brewerjerry

[dogsbody]

59 minutes ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

    semi circular plates were :-

 

    Fairey-Youngman pneumatic dive brakes fitted to trailing edges of several Beaufort IIs first, then retro on some Mk I's  IA's , but locked shut after not favourable in service reports 

 

     cheers

         jerry 

 

Never heard/read that before. Time for a reference dive!

 

 

 

Chris

[Dave Swindell]

 

14 hours ago, russ c said:

First: Mk Ia? referred to a lot but doesn`t seem to exist as an official version, was thinking that they were Taurus engined  Mk II`s and called Ia`s when the Pratt and Witney engined airframes became the definite Mk II`s?

MkIa (and MkIIa) referred to MkI (or MkII) airframes built with strengthened airframes with the (Blenheim type) Bristol B.I. Mk. V twin browning turret 

 

11 hours ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

    semi circular plates were :-

 

    Fairey-Youngman pneumatic dive brakes fitted to trailing edges of several Beaufort IIs first, then retro on some Mk I's  IA's , but locked shut after not favourable in service reports 

 

     cheers

         jerry 

The semicircular plates fitted to the trailing edge of the wing behind the Taurus engined (ie MkI) were a partly successful aerodynamic fix to cure turbulent airflow above the wing in the area behind the nacelle. These plates were introduced in late production MkI /MkIa's and earlier airframes were retrofitted with them. They were not required on the MkII with the larger diameter P&W engine as the nacelle shape didn't generate the same airflow separation. The plates were fixed in position and had nothing to do with dive brakes.

 

The Fairey Youngman pneumatic dive brakes were fitted to the outboard wing section inboard of the aileron above and below the wing in the same position as the outboard flap section. 

Photo below is of a Beaufighter, but the outer wing and divebrake arrangement was virtually identical on the Beaufort

[russ c]

Hi everyone,

 Thanks for the replies, been searching some more and changed my search to 22 Squadron, Ceylon instead of 217. Found a photo this time ( from the warpaint book ) of a belly landed Beaufort marked `Q` the caption says probably serial AW220, with 22 Squadron. Green and Medium Grey scheme same as `Q` 217 Squadron on the Xtradecal sheet. Can make out Tropical filters on the cowlings but not whether it had 1 or 2 guns in the nose. 

 

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Green and medium grey?   Should have been in Temperate Sea Scheme of Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey.  OK, DSG is green and EDSG does fade quite rapidly, but generally retains some blue.  Because of this, you will sometimes find photos taken on ortho film with a filter, making it look a very light grey.  Just what happens to the colours under tropical conditions is perhaps another matter! 

[russ c]

35 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Green and medium grey?   Should have been in Temperate Sea Scheme of Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey.  OK, DSG is green and EDSG does fade quite rapidly, but generally retains some blue.  Because of this, you will sometimes find photos taken on ortho film with a filter, making it look a very light grey.  Just what happens to the colours under tropical conditions is perhaps another matter! 

Yeah, that`s why I want to find some photo`s, the Dark green and Medium Grey does seem unusual

[Dave Swindell]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Green and medium grey?   Should have been in Temperate Sea Scheme of Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey.  OK, DSG is green and EDSG does fade quite rapidly, but generally retains some blue.  Because of this, you will sometimes find photos taken on ortho film with a filter, making it look a very light grey.  Just what happens to the colours under tropical conditions is perhaps another matter! 

The schemes in question don't have a disruptive upper scheme Graham, they're quoted as being Dark Green uppers over a Sky Grey underside, the photo referenced above shows very little contrast between the underside colour on the nose and the upper surface colour(s), reproduction isn't good enough to determine if there is a low contrast (TSS) scheme present on the upper surfaces. The photo also appears in the Beaufort file with a slightly wider crop. There's also a photo of a 22 sqn Ia (D816/V) which is much lighter overall and shows a similar contrast between upper and lower surfaces and little/no discernible camouflage pattern, both with blue/white roundels and flashes., However there's also photo of DW821/W of 22 sqn in early 43 still with type C roundel & fin flash where the camouflage pattern is very clear and the contrast between the upper and lower colours is much greater, so it would appear that they went out east with a camo scheme, whether this was repainted in theatre or the lack of contrast is due to weathering and film/filter effects I don't know.

The photo referred to in Warpaint is quoted as being of Beaufort Ia DW891/Q of 217 sqn which was struck off charge after an undercarriage collapse due to a stall & heavy landing after an air test at Vavuniya on 20/4/44. Note the ASV aerial under the wing, there would have been one under the nose to port, but this appears to have been wiped off together with the pitot during the accident. There's one mg fitted in the stbd nose mount; the port mount appears to be empty but it's not clear enough to be sure. 

The entry for AW220 which warpaint purports this aircraft to be records it as having being struck off on 28/10/43 after swinging on landing at Vavuniya and hitting Swordfish V4687 - it could possibly be this incident but the other one fits the photo closer.

[russ c]

1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said:

The schemes in question don't have a disruptive upper scheme Graham, they're quoted as being Dark Green uppers over a Sky Grey underside, the photo referenced above shows very little contrast between the underside colour on the nose and the upper surface colour(s), reproduction isn't good enough to determine if there is a low contrast (TSS) scheme present on the upper surfaces. The photo also appears in the Beaufort file with a slightly wider crop. There's also a photo of a 22 sqn Ia (D816/V) which is much lighter overall and shows a similar contrast between upper and lower surfaces and little/no discernible camouflage pattern, both with blue/white roundels and flashes., However there's also photo of DW821/W of 22 sqn in early 43 still with type C roundel & fin flash where the camouflage pattern is very clear and the contrast between the upper and lower colours is much greater, so it would appear that they went out east with a camo scheme, whether this was repainted in theatre or the lack of contrast is due to weathering and film/filter effects I don't know.

The photo referred to in Warpaint is quoted as being of Beaufort Ia DW891/Q of 217 sqn which was struck off charge after an undercarriage collapse due to a stall & heavy landing after an air test at Vavuniya on 20/4/44. Note the ASV aerial under the wing, there would have been one under the nose to port, but this appears to have been wiped off together with the pitot during the accident. There's one mg fitted in the stbd nose mount; the port mount appears to be empty but it's not clear enough to be sure. 

The entry for AW220 which warpaint purports this aircraft to be records it as having being struck off on 28/10/43 after swinging on landing at Vavuniya and hitting Swordfish V4687 - it could possibly be this incident but the other one fits the photo closer.

Hi Dave, thanks for that info` very useful, I looked up The Beaufort File, £75 on Amazon, so won`t be getting that anytime soon. Tried searching for DW821 too but no joy but thanks anyway

Cheers Russ

 

[EwenS]

 

3 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

The photo referred to in Warpaint is quoted as being of Beaufort Ia DW891/Q of 217 sqn which was struck off charge after an undercarriage collapse due to a stall & heavy landing after an air test at Vavuniya on 20/4/44. Note the ASV aerial under the wing, there would have been one under the nose to port, but this appears to have been wiped off together with the pitot during the accident. There's one mg fitted in the stbd nose mount; the port mount appears to be empty but it's not clear enough to be sure. 

The entry for AW220 which warpaint purports this aircraft to be records it as having being struck off on 28/10/43 after swinging on landing at Vavuniya and hitting Swordfish V4687 - it could possibly be this incident but the other one fits the photo closer.

 

Dave

By 1944 there may or may not have been an ASV aerial under the nose.

 

The original ASV.II setup had a transmitting aerial under the nose and a receiving aerial under each wing angled outwards. But as time went on transmit/receive modules were fitted to the electronics in the set. That allowed the deletion of the under nose transmission aerial. After that the underwing aerials served to both transmit and receive. Here is an Aussie one in 1945 without the nose aerial (note it also has the side looking aerials on the aft fuselage that were not fitted to British built Beauforts).

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/picture.php?/BEAUFORT_A9_666_100SQN_TADJI_PNG_1945/category/beaufort

 

Given that the Beauforts on Ceylon were among the last operational RAF units on the type I would suspect that there would be no undernose aerial. But I can’t be certain. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by EwenS

[Graham Boak]

Thanks Dave, Ewen.  TSS unfortunately can appear in just about every possible combination of contrasts, dependent upon wear, lighting, film stock and filter used.  It is not as though this particular corner of the war has been terribly well recorded.  However, I would be very very doubtful about Sky Grey at this stage of the war, on any RAF Aircraft.  It seems more likely that it was Azure Blue and a filter that didn't show the blue. 

[Dave Swindell]

13 minutes ago, EwenS said:

Given that the Beauforts on Ceylon were among the last operational RAF units on the type I would suspect that there would be no undernose aerial. But I can’t be certain. 

Hi Ewen

That's correct for the Aussie Beauforts in 1945, but from the photos of the other two 22 & 217 sqn Beauforts in Ceylon in 43/44 show they had the two outward canted receiver yagi's under the wings and the forward-facing transmitter yagi under the nose, DW891/Q almost certainly was similarly equipped when it went out to Ceylon and most likely was still fitted with it when it crashed.

[russ c]

Hi everyone,

 Found this last night, captioned as 39 Squadron ( which I don`t think flew Beaforts on the Far East ) Anyone any ideas/info`?

[elger]

On 10/11/2022 at 1:43 PM, Dave Swindell said:

 

MkIa (and MkIIa) referred to MkI (or MkII) airframes built with strengthened airframes with the (Blenheim type) Bristol B.I. Mk. V twin browning turret 

 

The semicircular plates fitted to the trailing edge of the wing behind the Taurus engined (ie MkI) were a partly successful aerodynamic fix to cure turbulent airflow above the wing in the area behind the nacelle. These plates were introduced in late production MkI /MkIa's and earlier airframes were retrofitted with them. They were not required on the MkII with the larger diameter P&W engine as the nacelle shape didn't generate the same airflow separation. The plates were fixed in position and had nothing to do with dive brakes.

 

The Fairey Youngman pneumatic dive brakes were fitted to the outboard wing section inboard of the aileron above and below the wing in the same position as the outboard flap section. 

Photo below is of a Beaufighter, but the outer wing and divebrake arrangement was virtually identical on the Beaufort

 

 

How similar were the Beaufort and the Beaufighter's flaps?

[Graham Boak]

Photos of RAF and Aussie Mk.IIs do not suggest that the engine cowlings were any smaller, if anything the contrary.

[Dave Swindell]

2 hours ago, elger said:

 

How similar were the Beaufort and the Beaufighter's flaps?

The whole wing was very similar if not identical in large  parts.

Simplistically the Beaufighter was the Beaufort wing and tail with a new fuselage and bigger engines. 

There were obviously some differences with the wing gun bays and underwing hard points on the Beaufighter, but there was a large component commonality such as ribs etc., the outline didn't change, and the design didn't change except for details where new or different equipment was to be fitted.

 

[mahavelona]

5 hours ago, russ c said:

Hi everyone,

 Found this last night, captioned as 39 Squadron ( which I don`t think flew Beaforts on the Far East ) Anyone any ideas/info`?

Is this the same 'SNAKE' scheme which appears in the Xtradecals set?

[russ c]

1 hour ago, mahavelona said:

Is this the same 'SNAKE' scheme which appears in the Xtradecals set?

I can see it now, well spotted. I presumed `delivery flight` on the decal sheet meant brand new, but it could just mean from another unit

Cheers Russ

[russ c]

Just `borrowed` this off Tail Dragons reply to ILJ`s post, Dark Green over Medium Grey as in Decal Sheets and Many Profiles or can a disruptive low contrast scheme be made out? Possibly Extra Dark Slate and Sea Greys over Azure Blue?

 

[Graham Boak]

I think you mean Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey over Azure Blue?  One problem with TSS for the modeller is the wide range of contrast it can provide in b&w photos.  One generally safe rule is that it there is a standard scheme that it should be in, then it probably was.