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Sherman Superthread (now including Ram too)


Kingsman

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I see that we have a "Superthread" for the Tiger.  All 1,349 of them in one single version with some variations built for 2 years and serving for less than 3.

 

But surely there are other candidates?  There were 4 times more Panthers than Tigers, in 3 versions from 3 factories with many variations.  And nearly 6 times more PzIVs from 3 factories in 9 variants with many variations.  Then we come to 62.000-ish T34s from several factories with multiple variations.

 

But my plea is for a Sherman Superthread.  49,000-odd Produced by 11 factories in 7 designated models with 3 guns, 2 different turret types with variations, 3 different suspensions with many variations, 10 different hull types and enough detail variations to make your head explode.  And that's before you consider wartime conversions and over 50 years of post-war use..........  If anything needs a superthread, this does.

Edited by Kingsman
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I would go along with those comments and would follow along such threads.

 

I do follow the Tiger "superthread" because I find the discussions interesting. Up to now I have never built a model of Tiger and my interest in building German or Russian armour is at a low but following along the discussions of what others are doing is interesting and adds to my overall knowledge of the subject.

 

cheers, Graham

 

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A great idea Peter. I've thought for a long time that this would be very useful. As you say, so many variations, and a lot of people are left befuddled by the numbers and the changes that took place, so a thread like this would be helpful for them when attempting to build an M4. Fingers crossed.

 

John.

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A good starting point, if you have not already found it, for any Sherman research is the Sherman Minutia site. Probably most answers can be found there. The guys there have done a lot of work “counting heads” on the various changes during production runs of the various Sherman models.

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html

 

Not much point in reinventing the wheel.

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Indeed the Minutia site is most excellent and a definite go-to, and we all owe Pierre-Olivier a massive vote of thanks for starting it and keeping it up.  The Sherman Tank Site is also excellent and has a lot more detailed technical information.

 

The intent would not be to fish in their ponds: that would be daft.  But as we see from threads on here there is often discussion of units - who had what, where and when.  Plus associated colours and markings.

 

And the we come to The Modelling Mire. Good kits. Bad kits. Ugly kits. Tracks. After market parts. Conversions and cross-kits. Which kits represent which versions etc etc. This is fertile ground for a Superthread.

 

 

Edited by Kingsman
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It seems that there is enough interest in @Kingsman 's suggestion.

 

Now all it takes is someone to create such a "Sherman Superthread" but before someone takes that next step - Does that "Sherman Superthread" belong in the same forum section as the "Tiger Superthread" i.e. the AFV work in progress area ( that would be my choice simply for the sake of consistency with an existing "Superthread"  )  or does it belong here in the "Armour Discussion by Era - AFV WWII" ?

 

Or, maybe there is a need for a separate area such as " AFV Superthreads" ? 

 

 

cheers, Graham

 

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26 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said:

Or, maybe there is a need for a separate area such as " AFV Superthreads" ? 

 

I doubt that the mods would go for that, as it would be an extra place to be policed/checked. That was why a dedicated IDF thread was turned down a few years ago. I think that, alongside the Tiger Superthread, in the WIP section, would probably be the best place for it.

 

John.

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33 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said:

Or, maybe there is a need for a separate area such as " AFV Superthreads" ? 

Nope. :) The forum has always been open to people creating threads.  It's kind of how it works. :shocked:  If there's a Tiger "Superthread", then it's because there was someone that wanted to start one, and there was enough interest to keep it near the top of the area that it was posted in.  If someone posted a Superthread about a lesser-known AFV that no-one's interested in, it'll drop down the listing until it disappears, figuratively.  Natural selection happens in threads :)

 

One thing I would ask is that if anyone is planning on setting up a new Superthread for anything (anywhere, not just AFVs), please do your due diligence to make sure that there isn't already one in existence.  We don't have time to be running round cleaning up after people that can't be bothered looking things up first :yes:

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Well I know there isn't a Sherman Superthread.  And I would have thought the Armour Discussion section was a better home than WIP for any Superthread.

 

So anyone can set one up?  Is this what I'm hearing?  I guess I had assumed that it required some administrator consent and/or black magic.  I think I also assumed that they would always be at the top of their section: perhaps too used to seeing the Tiger one at the top.

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1 hour ago, Kingsman said:

Well I know there isn't a Sherman Superthread.  And I would have thought the Armour Discussion section was a better home than WIP for any Superthread.

 

I would agree that the WIP is not necessary the best place for such Superthreads. However, the existing Tiger Superthread is in the WIP and I think keeping such Superthreads within the same sub forum is probably the better choice.

 

cheers, Graham

 

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If the emphasis is of people sharing their build logs, as the Tiger one seems to be, then the WIP section  would obviously make more sense.

 

If kit information and technical details are more the direction of travel then this section I guess? 

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Trouble is that such a Superthread such as the Tiger Superthread wanders and back forth between WIP topics and reference type discussions. 

 

The reality is, regardless of which sub forum  such a Superthread finds it's home, the discussion will wander back and forth across different areas. It will become whatever it does due to what is being posted regardless of which subforum it can be found in.

 

My suggestion of the WIP subforum is simply to be consistent with the Tiger Superthread - just to keep similar postings within the same area - nothing more.

 

Too often we try to over define and pigeon hole topics which often has the effect of discouraging rather than encouraging open discussion and sharing.

 

I have no vested interest in which subforum a Sherman Superthread is going to find it's place - I will simply look for it wherever and subscribe so that I don't miss anything.

 

cheers, Graham 

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Superthreads are normally information based, with examples of bits of a build highlighted in the thread. Multiple WiP jumbled up inside would be confusing and removes continuity for someone following a particular build, or for searching for a build example of a kit.

 

As a subtle hint, its not going in the WiP and refrain from posting complete WiP in there. If we repeatedly have to expend MoD time moving and shaping, patience will rapidly be exhausted. We had the same in the Airliners section a few years back and it caused angst amongst the users coping with the change back to what it should have been and annoyed the Mods because we wasted hours tidying up. 

 

;)

 

office-space-star-wars-58b8c8f53df78c353

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So, if i'm understanding correctly, a Sherman superthread has to be an ongoing discussion of the subject sprinkeled with some WIP higlights without using the superthread as a complete buildlog?

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I'm all for this!

You,Mr Kingsman, are an expert, and very informative person in regards of all aspects of M4.

Maybe you shall start the topic, and then we'll see, how it goes?

Sure those, Tigers & Panthers draw all kids to their paint, but we are steady guys in Olive Drab.

Z

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Before this actually starts, I'd like to make a suggestion about what is included. Obviously, everything from "Michael" the original M4A1, all the way up to and including the Chilean M60, but as even the Sherman Minutia site acknowledges, the M3 Lee/Grant are really part and parcel of this subject. So would everyone be in agreement that the M3 should be included? And as @Maddoxx77 has just alluded to, the thread should be a basically informative one, with references to member's builds, but without actually posting the whole WIP on here. That should be in  the WIP threads.

 

John.

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I like the idea of a Sherman super thread being a shermanholic with far more Sherman kits in the stash than is healthy.

 

I personally would keep a super thread to just M4’s. Whilst I love the Sherman, I have no interest in the M3 series and often irks me when they are lumped in together. Whilst I know they are from the same lineage and a lot of the lower hulls are similar, from there upwards they don’t have a lot in common. Given that the M4 is such a broad subject with innumerable variations, I would leave the M3 out of it to minimise the confusion to anyone trying to find pertinent information in the thread. Just my opinion, aware I might be in the minority here. 😁

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Well, I suppose that somebody has got to step up and get this moving, and seeing as I'm a dyed in the wool Shermanaholic, why not. Basically, if you look at the first page of Steve's @M3talpigthread on the Tiger 1, this will follow along similar lines. It's not somewhere to post your build threads, as that remains in the WIP section. But asking questions about Shermans or even uploading any info that you have which you think would be useful to others. In other words, a general chit chat about one of the most iconic armoured fighting vehicles of the 20th century.

If you think that this is for you, please join in. One thing though. Can we have a sort of vote as to whether the Lee/Grant should be included? If the general consensus is no, then that's fine.

In the meantime, here are a couple of useful websites for info and/or photos, starting withThe Sherman Minutia site;

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html

This one has many good photos of preserved tanks, the SVSM Gallery;

https://www.svsmgallery.com/Top-level/Walkarounds/Armored-Vehicles/Tanks-1915-to-1945/M4-Sherman-Family

https://www.svsmgallery.com/Top-level/Walkarounds/Armored-Vehicles/Tanks-1946-to-Present/M50-Super-Sherman-Family

https://www.svsmgallery.com/Top-level/Walkarounds/Armored-Vehicles/Tanks-1946-to-Present/M51-Isherman-Family

OK, so let's hope that this is up and running and will prove to be as useful and popular as the Tiger 1 thread.

 

John.

 

Just thought of another site;

http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/

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1 hour ago, Bullbasket said:

Can we have a sort of vote as to whether the Lee/Grant should be included?

 

No.  If there is enough interest then a "super thread" for the M3 Lee / Grant could also be created and it would live or die on it's own accord.

 

cheers, Graham

 

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Personally I don't find these superthreads very usefull at all.

 

They're too long (the Tiger I thread is currently 174 pages long - that's a book), information is too scattered an unstructured (i.e. no Index) which makes it almost impossible to find specific informaton.

 

Thre's only a handfull of active users making it look more of a private discussion (albeit carried out on a public stage).

 

They don't gather all the knowledge in one place, 'mini' threads still appear (as they should).

 

As I say not for me, I'll continue to avoid them.

 

 

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Perhaps consider separate forums on certain vehicles, in addition to the Armour Discussion by Era.  The Armour Discussion by Vehicle could start with the a few vehicles (Tiger, Sherman and other notables) and are just for discussion on the actual vehicles, contexts in which they were used and kits.  No builds. 

 

Perhaps even no new threads in those forums, to keep it organised, have the threads (e.g. by vehicle version) already setup inside each forum.  But I'm not sure about this....

 

I agree that superthreads are difficult to glean information from and become unwieldly.

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I would keep it all M4 Sherman, sorry M3 fans.

I would not want posts /photos like "that's what I've done to my kit" - links to the build- unless it is "something", supported by a photo.

Comments over that kit (IE - nice weathering etc) - on that link, not here, until it brings any new aspect of M4.

As always, it is only MY opinion

zig

 

 

 

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