Groupbuild rule amendment suggestion

[Enzo the Magnificent]

There are few hard and fast rules with regard to Groupbuilds.  Groupbuild hosts have a wide scope and flexibility when laying down the rules for their particular GB.  Some of the GB rules have become accepted as custom. 

 

One of these rules is the 25% rule.  This came about because it was deemed unfair that someone could take a mostly completed model from the Shelf of Shame and just add a few final touches and then claim it completed within the GB.  Others who had started a new kit from the box would have to put in a lot more work.

 

However, recently @Col. came up with an amendment which serves to greatly increas the flexibility of groupbuilds.  This is taken from his rules section in the Prototypes GB:

 

Quote

While there is usually a 25% rule with regard to how far progressed any project is at the start of GBs let's treat this as an optional guideline rather than a rule. Better to get a completed model on display than another stalled project on the Shame Shelf. All I ask is you post the completion photos in the Inspiration Gallery rather than the main Gallery thread.

 

You may wish to consider something similar for any forthcoming groupbuild which you may host.

 

 

Just for information, one rule which is definitely set in stone is the rule about no buying and selling in the Groupbuild area.  However, this is a Britmodeller rule, not a groupbuild rule.

[PhantomBigStu]

I like this, not the type to do the almost finished on the shelf of shame to complete anyway but do occasionally have something the wrong side of the border.....does it apply to 2022 ones? My matchbox meteor FR9 conversion probably fails but be nice to give it a go in a month or two whenever that ones starts 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

29 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said:

I like this, not the type to do the almost finished on the shelf of shame to complete anyway but do occasionally have something the wrong side of the border.....does it apply to 2022 ones? My matchbox meteor FR9 conversion probably fails but be nice to give it a go in a month or two whenever that ones starts 

As the Meteor STGB host I will say what @Enzo Matrix has proposed is pretty close to my thoughts on the subject. So you may go ahead and start/finish the project in the build. If its already more than 25% just place it in the inspiration gallery rather the new build gallery. 

[Ratch]

A Group Build in name only, no shared experience, just another notch on the Completion scoreboard.

[Marklo]

Personally I think that the, while there probably should be some flexibility in the 25% rule on a GB by GB basis eg the prototypes GB will probably get a lot more difficult and/or intricate builds than say an STGB where most of the builds will be completely kit based.

 

So I suppose my two cents would be to have the Host choose wether to invoke the 25% rule or not.
 

[Enzo the Magnificent]

13 minutes ago, Marklo said:

So I suppose my two cents would be to have the Host choose wether to invoke the 25% rule or not.
 

 

 

That has always been the way, anyway.  As I mentioned, GB hosts have always had a wide latitude in the way that they wish to run their groupbuilds.

[trickyrich]

I have generally been happy for builds over the 25% rule being allowed to join in. The only proviso was that they couldn't post the build into the gallery.

 

But adding an "Inspirational" Gallery or Section as a permanent feature is a great idea, anything to help get stalled builds of "Shelf Queens" off the shelves or out of those hidden boxes (and we all have plenty of those!!!   ) is a great idea.

 

Plus it also means it allows more to join in and have fun, which is one of the main reasons for GB/STGB, joining in and having some fun with mates. 

[Marklo]

On thinking more about this my one fear of waiving the 25% rule is that the GB will basically end up as a themed gallery without any interesting WIPs to follow.

 

13 hours ago, trickyrich said:

anything to help get stalled builds of "Shelf Queens" off the shelves or out of those hidden boxes

Is that not what the annual KUTA builds are for.

[helios16v]

I think the likelihood of a large percentage of the build entries being over 25% is pretty minimal.  Thus far in TR's hosted builds where they have been allowed there usually wasn't more than a handful that were entered as WiPs.  I can see your concern, and I agree I'd hate to see a normal GB be full of KUTAs, but historically when the 25% has been waived (pretty common w/ TR & Col) it hasn't been a significant impact overall.

[Pin]

I have always been uneasy with 25% rule as there is no clear way of measuring. Almost built vacform may require far more work in terms of time spent than OOB snap-together kit but only the later would be accepted.

I think it should be to the discretion of GB host(s) if a particular build should be accepted or declined. 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

46 minutes ago, helios16v said:

I think the likelihood of a large percentage of the build entries being over 25% is pretty minimal.  Thus far in TR's hosted builds where they have been allowed there usually wasn't more than a handful that were entered as WiPs.  I can see your concern, and I agree I'd hate to see a normal GB be full of KUTAs, but historically when the 25% has been waived (pretty common w/ TR & Col) it hasn't been a significant impact overall.

Ive waived it a couple of builds too. I agree its not a big percentage of the builds. 

[trickyrich]

On 10/2/2022 at 11:37 PM, Marklo said:

On thinking more about this my one fear of waiving the 25% rule is that the GB will basically end up as a themed gallery without any interesting WIPs to follow.

 

Is that not what the annual KUTA builds are for.

 

I agree with your concerns, but as mentioned there hasn't been too many, so I wouldn't be too worried about it yet. I don't think it'll ever get to that stage, plus I think it is something that should be left to the Host in the end to decide. Some GB/STGB's would probably attach more of these than others. 

 

As long as it fits into the build it is a nice way for some member to join in and perhaps complete a build they have lost interest in or just got stuck with. That may help them with seeing similar build being and how that builder managed to do it, or it just might give them that renewed Mojo to complete their build. We have probably all had that happen to us at some stage.

 

But it is an interesting idea to think about and discuss.

 

I've always said anything that make GB's & STGB's more popular and accessible to more members old and new, can only be good thing in the end. Though it does mean Enzo has more cats to heard!!  

[JOCKNEY]

Just a thought but as the owner of many unfinished previous GB victims, another option for the over 25% builds is additional or extended KUTA GBs in each year.

 

I think the principle of the GB host / hosts having the final decision is correct, additionally if the build was in a previous GB of the same topic ie FAA GB II and there is a current FAA GB III, I wouldn't have a issue with an unfinished build from the previous GB coming across.

 

Thoughts ?

 

Cheers Pat 

[Thom216]

Would love another KUTA GB, as I also have many unfinished kits languishing in their tarnished boxes. 

What about a continuous KUTA GB that never ends?

[Heather Kay]

5 minutes ago, Thom216 said:

What about a continuous KUTA GB that never ends?

But isn’t that just Britmodeller as it is?  

[Pin]

27 minutes ago, Thom216 said:

Would love another KUTA GB, as I also have many unfinished kits languishing in their tarnished boxes. 

What about a continuous KUTA GB that never ends?

There is an entire subforum dedicated to eternal KUTA, it is called "Work in Progress". No need to duplicate

 

[Thom216]

12 minutes ago, Pin said:

There is an entire subforum dedicated to eternal KUTA, it is called "Work in Progress". No need to duplicate

 

Multiple posts!? For each model!? 

Well, I guess that is a way of doing it...

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

10 hours ago, JOCKNEY said:

I think the principle of the GB host / hosts having the final decision is correct, additionally if the build was in a previous GB of the same topic ie FAA GB II and there is a current FAA GB III, I wouldn't have a issue with an unfinished build from the previous GB coming across.

 

Thoughts ?

Ive always allowed for entries in previous builds. They get an automatic bye if the meet the theme. 

[alt-92]

On 10/23/2022 at 8:29 PM, Black Knight said:

All GB entries to be fresh unstarted kits

I tend to open some kits and do a quick testfit to judge if it's going to be problematic or not. 
That a problem for you?

[Enzo the Magnificent]

It's known as "plastic fondlage".  

[Redstaff]

I must admit that IMHO the 25% rule has always been a bit too generous, but it's never been an issue as far as the GBs I've taken part in and the KUTA GBs are there for those over the 25% rule.

I'm in a facebook group (Road and track in scale) and each GB on there has to start with a box and sprue shot of the whole untouched kit to be eligible to be entered, nothing is allowed to be glued together or painted whatsoever and I haven't got an issue with that either, these are the rules if you want to participate. 

Personally, I think the rule should be left as is and anything over that can be entered into the KUTA builds or the relevant WIP areas. The GB hosts have enough to do sorting out us muppets, without having to decide what is or isn't 25% and if they should allow this or that and maybe risk offending someone if their build is deemed suitable or not.

 

Ian  

[gingerbob]

On 9/27/2022 at 3:07 PM, Ratch said:

A Group Build in name only, no shared experience, just another notch on the Completion scoreboard.

 

I would say that this description applies to the KUTA, and I agree with others that "Work in Progress" should be able to handle that.

 

I tend to be far more interested in "Single Type" group builds because they are inherently more focused, especially when the recent trend seems to be to make the "Group" build terms so general that enough people will come forward to get it over the threshold.  At some point you're just building a model, while other people are building models.

 

So what if someone has a half-built example, if they jump in and participate from that point?  I didn't think that the pleasure of participating in a group build is merely to be able to say that you completed the kit in the allotted schedule?  And anyway, there aren't usually fabulous cash prizes that we're competing for...

 

It seems the more common problem is people "participating" and only doing a little bit, not following through and certainly not completing (or am I just looking in the mirror?)  So it is perfectly fine to have "participants" create a thread within a group build, and maybe even do 25% of the process of building a model before the session (or their attention span) times out, but it is inappropriate to jump in when you'd already done some of the build, and would like to now participate in the shared experience?

Edited January 6, 2023 by gingerbob

[Ratch]

17 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

I tend to be far more interested in "Single Type" group builds because they are inherently more focused,

Me too, but they rarely get over the nomination line, and in the popular voting system everyone seems to want the broadest theme to tempt everyone and everything. I re-itterate, no shared experience. A single subject helps some modellers learn about the subject and the different approaches to the build process.

[Chimpion]

I think there's a place for STGBs and broader themed GBs, but I also think the current trend is towards topics that are so broad that they are largely meaningless. Topics such as "Warsaw pact jets", "WW2 Pacific", "Emergency Vehicles", "1930s" at least all have a well-defined scope. Some of the current suggestions are along the lines of "Anything with a T in the name" or "It got used on a Monday". I agree these are better posted in the regular WIP areas.

As for starting and not finishing, I'm probably the most guilty of this of all members. If it became a real badge of shame to not finish, I wouldn't start any GBs at all, as I can't remember the last time I finished a kit within 4 months (I don't start many as it is, largely because I don't expect to finish on time).

 

 

[theplasticsurgeon]

On 12/7/2022 at 7:54 PM, Redstaff said:

The GB hosts have enough to do sorting out us muppets, without having to decide what is or isn't 25% and if they should allow this or that and maybe risk offending someone if their build is deemed suitable or not.

I've just done some measurement to establish the 25% threshold.  Quite surprising result really.

For consistent sustained effort, dedicated to one GB only and no breaks   -   I looked at my Blitzbuilds.

My first was a Novo Miles Master taking 9h47m. So 25% is 2h27m.  Start time +2h27m occurred at 11:06 - at which time I had an assembled airframe being prepared for painting.

Then a Monogram Skyraider taking 10h26m. So 25% is 2h36m.  Start time +2h36m occurred at 12:02 - again an assembled airframe being prepared for painting.

That's about what I'd thought previously, but more advanced than most would like to see admitted - but there's the measurement.

Does this sound scientific enough?

My entries for other GB have distorted results - usually because of a slow start, whilst I'm finishing something else.