Advice Needed for HMS Iron Duke Build

[Harriers4Life]

Hello All,

 

I have been searching for a while trying to find colours for the small boats on HMS Iron Duke (Are they called steam pinnace and working boats?) I had previously built the Hood with blue/white boats. Were they all blue and white, or were some all over grey, or white, and were they covered?

 

I am happy to find the info myself if someone could point me in the right direction please, to a decent book or website as I am going round in circles!

 

A book like Peter Davies Garner's Titanic modelmakers manual would be perfect!

 

I would like to portray the ship early in her career, ie before 1918.

I have been searching online but cannot seem to find much info on the finer details of the iron duke. (Most people seem to want to know what shade of grey the hull was but I'm not too fussed on the exact shade, light grey will suit me fine!)

 

I would like to have a ship with little splashes of colour here and there, so maybe "Brunswick Green" for the anchor handling gear (if this was in practice on battleships of the Andrew before or during ww1), or blue/white boats on the deck, or other equipment like hydrants being red etc that are not just boring old grey!  (I don't mind-mish mashing periods, ie painting it in 1912 colours with a 1920 configuration of superstructure for example, or fantasy paint jobs like I mentioned above. I would like to have a more detailed paint plan than what airfix provides in their instructions, just for all the fixtures and deck furniture etc...

 

Thanks for reading this and if anyone here has any knowledge on the various colours used on these ships that they would like to share, it would be much appreciated!

 

Kind Regards,

 

Mitch 

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Mitch @Harriers4Life, is this an Airfix 1/600 kit, and if yes how far have you gone? Regards, Jeff.

[Harriers4Life]

Hi Jeff, yeah this is the old Airfix 1/600, I haven't started it yet, I am just having a mooch around the Internet seeing if there's any good references out there, but it is surprisinly difficult to find anything useful or specific to what I want to know! I was looking at the Haynes manual for Dreadnoughts, thinking it may come in handy...  

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Mitch, sorry I didn't reply sooner, I've just got home. The dogs (and we) need our walkies. 🙂

       I did this kit a number of years ago, and altered it a little to as she appeared at Jutland, or as close as I could get anyway. This was before I joined any modeling forum so I was on my own so-to-speak and spent quite a bit of time researching the ship on Google. Due to the era of the ship (WW1) and most photos being black and white I have this preconceived idea that they were all dark in colour and hence painted mine in Humbrol 27 I think. (I'm old fashioned and use the hairy stick, a paint brush). Like you I don't want my models looking too drab and like small items highlighted a bit to break up the monotony.

       Here's what I've done:

       There are a few errors with the kit, one of them being the secondary 6-inch guns in the casemates. The ship had twelve, six per side but the kit gives you fourteen? As built the ship had five on each side under the foc'sle deck abreast 'B' turret and another under the quarterdeck abreast 'Y' turret. In practice these last were found to be too close to the waterline and were constantly awash so I believe, and hence were relocated under the shelterdeck abreast the fore mast. But the kit has guns in BOTH locations.

       The levels of the superstructure are all too high but that's easy fixed if you haven't started yet. The heavy spotting top above the tripod starfish was fitted later in her career (going on memory here), and the searchlight platforms on the second funnel too.

       The external range-finders on the turrets and the extra small guns were late in her life I think (I did this model about five+ years ago).

I don't want to bombard you with too much info here but I can give you more info and photos if you wish. Don't be put off doing the kit, I quite enjoyed it. I could do a post in the 'Ready-for-Inspection' section) HTH.       Regards, Jeff.

[Harriers4Life]

Nice one Jeff, no worries for the late reply, i work nights here in the UK, so I can wait... I'm like a Jamaican in terms of timeliness!! 

 

Yeah, I done this kit back in 1998, I knew nothing about navy ships back then (I was only 13!) and just assumed that they were all just cold grey steel...

 

Now I am more learned I quite enjoy the odd battleship kit once in a while.

 

I had read about the bridge being too high, so am going to lower that, I will likely add a few scratch built parts to pretty up some areas and reduce the clunkiness of other areas. I have a photo etch set on pre order with BNA model world, so will wait for that to arrive to see what it's like... (I like PE sets but some parts are unnecessary, especially with its 2D appearance). I would rather scratch build a part than use PE that doesn't look right... I did not know about the barbette guns so thanks for the heads up there! I am on the hunt for some reasonably priced set of guns for this kit, but they seem rare and expensive! I may just sand and reshape the kit ones...

 

Thanks for the picture, It would be cool to see more of your model! I will see if I can put up a picture of the Hood I made during Lockdown...

 

Thanks again mate, I'm sure I will pick your brains at some point when I get round to starting it! I don't remember it being a hard kit to make...

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

24 minutes ago, Harriers4Life said:

I would rather scratch build a part than use PE that doesn't look right...

Yeah, me too, although it's not a difficult choice for me as I don't do PE. 😁 Re Hood's boats I think they were the ship's colour except for the admiral's barge. That's one way I like to add a bit of colour - one boat (usually) blue instead of grey. I've converted an Airfix HMS Hood to her May 1941 configuration not long ago. The Airfix Hood OOB is about 1932 I think.

       In the next day or two I'll do a post on HMS Iron Duke in the Maritime RFI section.

 

A little hint if you're not aware of it already, if you want to get someone's attention in a thread there are a couple of ways (besides a PM):-

       1.  You can quote them like I have quoted you here.

       2.  You can type an @ and immediately start to type their user name. A list of similar names will appear. When you see the name you want in the box click on it and it will appear in your text like this @Harriers4Life. This will alert the member next time he/she logs on and can reply to you. You might get quicker responses that way. HTH.

 

And I've been wondering why you've been awake at such an ungodly hour. 😁       Regards, Jeff.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I've got bad news for you - there's probably even less colour than you think.

 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-67362

 

 

 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-67361

 

 

 

In common with many Royal Navy large ships around WWI, the lower half of the hull was probably grey as depicted on these contemporary models. Ultimately it's a warship, and they didn't paint bits pretty colours to brighten them up. What does distinguish these warships during WWI and the inter-war era from their WWII successors is that there was a degree of brightwork kept. The gun muzzles were polished rather than painted and exterior timber such as ladder handrails and spars used for boat booms etc were varnished wood rather than painted grey. Much of the steel deck area was laid with Corticene lino.

 

There was a certain latitude to painting boats, but typically these would never be gaudy. Remaining Navy-like was the wish of the overwhelming majority of sea captains since looking like a clown was not the way to career advancement. Green paint was reserved for an Admiral's barge generally too.

 

If there was some large inspection with pomp and ceremony, ratings may have been given the opportunity to perform some tiddly-work with rope and paint the exposed lengths of anchor chains white on the whims of some officer.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Again, as you can see there's a few discrepancies between the models. @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies is one of the acknowledged gurus on RN colour schemes and I certainly take heed of what he says.

Unfortunately for me, I didn't know him when I did my build. 😥       Oh, well  .   .   .       Regards, Jeff. 🙂

[Harriers4Life]

Many Thanks for your input and advice guys! @ArnoldAmbrose, @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies

Well that has rained on my parade!

 

I was not aware of Grey Anti Foul paint! When did they stop using that colour, and also did they have a black boot topper band with the grey? Was this lighter or darker than the upper hull? The models you have shown have opposite colours to each other, and one has the black band, the the other does not!- Is this because of the era that the ship is depicted? I hope this doesnt turn into a Titanic style debate on colours of antifouling and white star funnel buff! 

 

So only the Big Guns were painted?

I was not going to bore them out, but rather paint the very ends to represent the tampion caps that were placed on them. Were these in use at that time?

 

Would the book Anatomy of the Ship Dreadnought be a useful aid to this build? 

I don't know what the long bars are that are laying on the deck, are they boat hooks, and would they be polished wood?

 

One last thing, would the decks be pale in appearance due to holy stoning? 

 

Despite being in the Andrew for over 14 years, I was a WAFU so didn't familiarise myself too much with fish head gubbins!

 

Thanks again guys, if you know of a good reference book of these ships, such as what I have already mentioned, that would be great, I can avoid harassing folk on here and stirring up debates on the colours of black and white ships! 

 

Kind Regards,

 

Mitch

 

 

 

[dickrd]

The use of grey anti-fouling paint by the RN stopped with the introduction of Pocoptic (red) shortly after the end of WW2. The tone of the grey varied a bit between the different manufacturers. I suggest you mimic one or other of the tones seen on the models (although maybe they appear fairly similar?). 

 

The tone of the grey on the upper hull and upperworks also varied (considerably) according to which of the RN greys was being used which would depend on the year in question. 

 

During WW1 boot topping was (supposed to be) grey. Black boot topping was (officially) reintroduced in 1923.

 

Yes, the models represent very different eras. The darker/cruder one is pre WW1.  

Edited February 4, 2023 by dickrd

[ArnoldAmbrose]

9 hours ago, Harriers4Life said:

I don't know what the long bars are that are laying on the deck, are they boat hooks, and would they be polished wood?

Gidday Mitch, those I think are the boat booms you're referring to. In the models they're in their stowed positions as they would be while at sea. They're used in harbour and protrude 90* (directly out) from the hull and ship's boats are secured to them while not in use, to save having to hoist them inboard again. Jamie referred to them as being varnished wood rather than painted grey. HTH.

       Regards, Jeff.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

8 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday Mitch, those I think are the boat booms you're referring to. In the models they're in their stowed positions as they would be while at sea. They're used in harbour and protrude 90* (directly out) from the hull and ship's boats are secured to them while not in use, to save having to hoist them inboard again. Jamie referred to them as being varnished wood rather than painted grey. HTH.

       Regards, Jeff.

 

Indeed - they'd be rigged up like this for crew members to climb up and down into and out of the boats. When not in use they'd be de-rigged and stowed either on deck or more usually lashed to a bulkhead out of everyone's way  

 

[Harriers4Life]

Thanks for the info guys, @dickrd @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies @ArnoldAmbrose I really appreciate it, I love learning new things and finding what a blob of plastic on a kit is meant to be on the real thing! 

Once it is done I will post up some pictures for you to check out! 

With Regards to the davits on the kit, would the vertical parts that attach to boats be the falls on the real thing? Obviously they wouldn't just dangle over the edge, how would they be secured in place? Would they be stored on deck and swung out when needed, or would they have been swung out permanently and secured with cables?

 

Kind Regards,

 

Mitch

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

9 hours ago, Harriers4Life said:

Would they be stored on deck and swung out when needed,

Gidday, that would be my guess in that era. And I stress the word "guess". Regards, Jeff.