HMS KGV question....

[Devo]

Where the tops of the gun turrets painted dark grey when she wore the late 1945 paint scheme?

[Our Ned]

https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_King_George_V_(41)#/media/Файл:King_George_V_class_battleship_1945.jpg

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

The barrels were counter shaded in 3 tones still too. The bottom of the barrel appears to match the G45 turret face. The top appears to match the turret tops. The sides of the barrel are something in between.

 

 

 

 

 

There are a few colour images from Tokyo bay and I have them but they're taken on cameras not designed for colour film and show the common tunnel vision effect and the colours all look rather washed out. I think they may have been what drove Tamiya to suggest the light grey and dark grey hull but there's no particular reason to think KGV wouldn't have been Scheme A like the other BPF vessels captured on colour cine film or on cameras designed for colour film.

[Rich75]

What do you think to the Melbourne visit pictures as a reference they are probably some of the best quality,this was a late 1945 visit no?

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

27 minutes ago, Rich75 said:

What do you think to the Melbourne visit pictures as a reference they are probably some of the best quality,this was a late 1945 visit no?

 

They're fantastic but she has been repainted with some different details. The hull paint is different in lining out and e.g. the 14" gun barrels are G45 overall in Melbourne.

[Rich75]

56 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

They're fantastic but she has been repainted with some different details. The hull paint is different in lining out and e.g. the 14" gun barrels are G45 overall in Melbourne.

Yes that's what I was hoping you'd say! The late 44 scheme is what I'm using on my KGV atm, I will be trying to put the three colours on the barrels, would you hazard a guess what to use for the middle one, I did build the heller kit in the disruptive scheme before would you think it could be one of the colours used in previous patterns, ms4 perhaps...?

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

3 hours ago, Rich75 said:

Yes that's what I was hoping you'd say! The late 44 scheme is what I'm using on my KGV atm, I will be trying to put the three colours on the barrels, would you hazard a guess what to use for the middle one, I did build the heller kit in the disruptive scheme before would you think it could be one of the colours used in previous patterns, ms4 perhaps...?

 

If the guns are fired much then the paint scorches fairly quickly on barrels so even if just doing some firing exercises and stuff between refits I'd expect a repaint or 4 to have been needed. When the G&B series paints replaced the MS&B paints from May 1943 onwards we know the KGV sisters in the Admiralty Disruptive class design replaced MS4 with B30 which was the same (approximately) 30% RF - there are those nice photographs of HMS Howe in colour on the Suez Canal showing it so. Ultimately where I'm going with this is that I really doubt whether anyone would have had any wet MS4 left by mid-late 1944 and the original paint from 1942 wouldn't/didn't survive that long anyway. I think B30 as a mid tone on the counter shaded barrels is probably the most logical / easily defensible idea unless the barrels used some sort of mixed grey.

[Rich75]

31 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

If the guns are fired much then the paint scorches fairly quickly on barrels so even if just doing some firing exercises and stuff between refits I'd expect a repaint or 4 to have been needed. When the G&B series paints replaced the MS&B paints from May 1943 onwards we know the KGV sisters in the Admiralty Disruptive class design replaced MS4 with B30 which was the same (approximately) 30% RF - there are those nice photographs of HMS Howe in colour on the Suez Canal showing it so. Ultimately where I'm going with this is that I really doubt whether anyone would have had any wet MS4 left by mid-late 1944 and the original paint from 1942 wouldn't/didn't survive that long anyway. I think B30 as a mid tone on the counter shaded barrels is probably the most logical / easily defensible idea unless the barrels used some sort of mixed grey.

Looks like there may be some of that in the post soon then....👍🏻 and another few hours looking through photos again! Thanks 

[Devo]

Thanks All,

 

I should of said late 1945 in Sydney and Melbourne.

 

From what I can gather all main and secondary gun turrets/barrels are painted G45......but was the top of the main turrets painted in G45 or where they a deck grey colour? 

 

 

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Image 5

https://www.navy.gov.au/history/feature-histories/british-pacific-fleet

 

... seems to suggest a darker tone on top given the difference in angles to the sunlight.

 

Image 2

https://ontheslipway.com/hms-king-george-v-visits-melbourne/

 

... not so sure.

 

[Devo]

17 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Image 5

https://www.navy.gov.au/history/feature-histories/british-pacific-fleet

 

... seems to suggest a darker tone on top given the difference in angles to the sunlight.

 

Image 2

https://ontheslipway.com/hms-king-george-v-visits-melbourne/

 

... not so sure.

 

Thanks Jamie, I think I will go with grey.

If it wasn't grey back in the day, I'm happy to be corrected.

 

After looking at those pics again for the 100th time, the turret tops wouldn't be the hull colour....???

Edited September 27, 2022 by Devo

[Rich75]

Hi there thought I'd share this one for you, see what you make of it?

Australian War Memorial 

119680

Edited September 28, 2022 by Rich75
Accreditation

[Devo]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:07 PM, Rich75 said:

Hi there thought I'd share this one for you, see what you make of it?

Australian war museum 

Well there you go........ same colour as the superstucture NARN 22 - G45.

Thanks for that.

[Rich75]

No problem if you check the Australian War Memorial and search for KGV's Melbourne visit there are some great pictures 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

There's quite a lot of glare in that cine film screenshot, but the top of B turret has me unconvinced that it's G45 - especially B-turret gunhouse roof as compared to the tops of the B turret gun barrels.

[foeth]

More confusion:

 

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday All, I believe that KGV initially had an external degaussing coil. Did she retain it her entire life or was it removed at some point? It doesn't appear to be in the above photo. And BTW, that looks like the Sydney Harbour Bridge in the background of the above photo.       Regards, Jeff.

[foeth]

The external degaussing coil was removed during her early 1944 Liverpool refit; internal coils fitted. The Mk IV HACS directors make it easy to identify her from the others of the class.

[dickrd]

KGV arrived back in the UK early 1946 appearing to be still in the 'Melbourne' paint job. I think the 14" turret tops were mainly 'G45' but also something dark where access to the Y turret pom pom was required. I cannot tell if the same thing occurred on B turret.

My suggestion for an explanation for the slightly darker appearance of the 'G45' areas of the turret tops in some photos is that they would have been painted in a non-slip deck paint version of G45. The rough surface of this would cause this visual difference with the smooth G45 on the turret sidees.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by dickrd

[Our Ned]

Elements of King George V's external degaussing coil were removed earlier than 1944; photos taken at Algiers in July 1943 show the forward section absent (eg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLtIlyoXwAEp0Zl?format=jpg&name=900x900 - she is the ship nearly bows-on) although the cover for the after section is still visible in other photos taken at a similar time (eg https://preview.redd.it/xhu2h1fmb5t81.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=38eb3fb2cd29f8eec27feb5c5b70540a24370ce7).

[Rich75]

On 29/09/2022 at 17:30, Our Ned said:

Elements of King George V's external degaussing coil were removed earlier than 1944; photos taken at Algiers in July 1943 show the forward section absent (eg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLtIlyoXwAEp0Zl?format=jpg&name=900x900 - she is the ship nearly bows-on) although the cover for the after section is still visible in other photos taken at a similar time (eg https://preview.redd.it/xhu2h1fmb5t81.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=38eb3fb2cd29f8eec27feb5c5b70540a24370ce7).

Fantastic picture the first one

Edited September 30, 2022 by Rich75
Typo

[Devo]

Paint......sheesh!!🤔🤪

 This is one of the things that can stall me on a build for a decade!!!!

[Rich75]

On 29/09/2022 at 17:30, Our Ned said:

Elements of King George V's external degaussing coil were removed earlier than 1944; photos taken at Algiers in July 1943 show the forward section absent (eg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLtIlyoXwAEp0Zl?format=jpg&name=900x900 - she is the ship nearly bows-on) although the cover for the after section is still visible in other photos taken at a similar time (eg https://preview.redd.it/xhu2h1fmb5t81.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=38eb3fb2cd29f8eec27feb5c5b70540a24370ce7).

Hi, do mind if I ask how/what you search for to find these images, I've been looking at KGV pictures since before I started my build, always seem to find the same ones, I haven't been modelling that long either so any way to expand my referencing abilities would be gratefully recieved....thanks

[Our Ned]

I'm lucky enough to have a fairly extensive library, and a cross-referencing series of spreadsheets built up over many years; once I find an image which I'm looking for (from review of said spreadsheets), I figure out a possible search strategy, and use an image search option in a browser.  If no joy, I try another photo (if any), or use different keywords (eg other ships in the photo, and/or the location, such as Howe in the Algiers one).

[Mr. Church]

There is no exact date on this photo, but it looks pretty conclusive to me anyway that the turret tops here are painted light grey:

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/BPF-EIF/Galleries/Woolloomooloo/Wooll-08.jpg

 

One or two other interesting items in the same album:

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/BPF-EIF/Galleries/Gallery_Woolloomooloo.htm#.Y0WoJ3bMLIV

 

Also if you go to this video from 1947 and pause it at the 0 minutes 18 seconds mark, it clearly shows Duke of York as having light grey turret tops:

 

 

 

So there is definitely a precedent for a King George V Class battleship having light grey turret tops. Anson can be seen in the same film still with dark turret tops. Other post war photos of Duke of York show her with dark grey turret tops. So it seems there was some variation from time to time.