Caldercraft / JoTiKa - HMS Victory 1/72 Scale

[Stratomonkey]

 

 

 

 

Hi, I know that there are other HMS Victory's on here but I just wanted to post the build here. It will not be a quick build, it will not be a great build but it will be my build and I fully intend to make it as good as I can make it. This was a totally untouched kit that I across on eBay a few weeks ago. Just had to have it!

 

Where to start?

 

Well, firstly I had to call into action and rejuvenate my building slipway (dry dock) building board, I built one when I tried building the Artisan Latina Partworks HMS Victory. That failed because I lost interest in having to wait weeks for the parts to arrive so already I'm on my second model of this ship.

 

With that done, the next task is to think hard about how I'm going to tackle it. Started with the Parts list and checking everything off. This takes time so my patience is already being tested here. With that done the next step was to think about the main keel and bulkheads, how will they fit. The keel is 5mm ply and warped!  This is all dry fitted right now. I have unwarped the main keel and fitted all the bulkheads

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its just a matter now of ensuring that this as it is I straight and true, the masking tape was used to try and aid sighting it up. Spirit levels and set squares are standing by for when the glueing is done.

[Bertie McBoatface]

I’m first to wish you fair winds and calm seas for the build and first to follow what promises to be an entertaining thread. There’s bound to be drama, there always is!

[Faraway]

@Stratomonkey now then, this looks interesting. Not something I would tackle and I wish you every success.
So my chair is drawn up, slippers on and wine glass topped up, so in your own time, carry on.

I have one question though.

Where on earth will you put her, when she’s built ?

Jon

 

[Troy Smith]

11 minutes ago, Stratomonkey said:

This was a totally untouched kit that I across on eBay a few weeks ago. Just had to have it!

May I suggest adding a little potted history of the kit....  yes, I could google it up, but from the brief description it's now (long?) unavailable,  and of some degree of note?  (told you I was being lazy)  , you can edit this information into your first post as well.  

I've just noticed the size of it on the box front. (and next to the amp) 

Crikey, that's a big model.   

The only thing I recall about HMS Victory was reading an indepth build of a Heller kit back in Scale Models about 1979...   I read it as it was the only model mag I regularly bought and tended to read all of it regardless of the subject, which did lead to picking up random bits of info...    

 

One neat thing on here is a feedback and 'likes' which makes what is really quite a solitary hobby a lot more social, which can help when a loss of mojo strikes and momentum gets lost...  

 

cheers

T

  

 

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday again, and crikey Noel, you haven't half jumped off the deep end with this. 🙂 She'll be magnificent when done though, good luck with the old girl. Will you be adding a new room to accommodate her? 😁       Regards, Jeff.

[Stratomonkey]

6 hours ago, Faraway said:

@Stratomonkey now then, this looks interesting. Not something I would tackle and I wish you every success.
So my chair is drawn up, slippers on and wine glass topped up, so in your own time, carry on.

I have one question though.

Where on earth will you put her, when she’s built ?

Jon

 

Thanks, I hope that I can get this thing done. Im in no rush to do so but I do salute anyone willing to follow and watch this particularly insane journey I have decided to undertake. Where this monster will go after she is built is something I will worry about when she is built. If I had thought about that when I decided to get the kit I wouldn't have got it!

[Stratomonkey]

6 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

May I suggest adding a little potted history of the kit....  yes, I could google it up, but from the brief description it's now (long?) unavailable,  and of some degree of note?  (told you I was being lazy)  , you can edit this information into your first post as well.  

I've just noticed the size of it on the box front. (and next to the amp) 

Crikey, that's a big model.   

The only thing I recall about HMS Victory was reading an indepth build of a Heller kit back in Scale Models about 1979...   I read it as it was the only model mag I regularly bought and tended to read all of it regardless of the subject, which did lead to picking up random bits of info...    

 

One neat thing on here is a feedback and 'likes' which makes what is really quite a solitary hobby a lot more social, which can help when a loss of mojo strikes and momentum gets lost...  

 

cheers

T

  

 

 

Hi, I thought I did write one, I'll have to write one if I didn't. The kit is very much available, its pricey but I found this one, untouched and intact on eBay find from a chap who was moving house and couldn't take it with him, so I rescued it and promised him to keep him updated when building it.

Yep, it's certainly big! but I like big models, curiously I find them easier to build.

Next to the amp is the Revel 1/96 scale Cutty Sark, next to that is the newly re-issued Airfix 1/24 Hawker Harrier kit. I like big models 😀 

I have done a bit of research on HMS Victory and visited her a few times in the past. I have a great book for reference (Can't remember the title but it does HMS Victory in it which is a good thing) which I really should dig out and start going through. it has some wonderful drawings and plan layouts in there. 

[Ray S]

I am looking forward to this one! This was always a kit I had wanted to build, but shied away from due to a) price, b) space,* and c) skill set! I had an article in a Model Boats special issue which I kept reading time and time again, even bought a 'simple' wood kit to deal with c), but messed that up. Having seen Berties builds on here, I have taken steps to actually get some tools which may help with c) and allow me to correct the problems I had (being too mean to have thrown it away) and I hope to get some more hints and tips from this too.

 

Good luck with the build, and I hope the previous owner will be very happy with your result!

 

Ray

 

* I am not dropping the Oxford Comma, despite what some people would like us to do!

[Faraway]

@Ray S I do agree with all you’ve said. These wooden kits are SO tempting, but as you say, price, size and skill are most definitely my reasons not to attempt one. The closest I’ve got is my paper/card HMS Alert, that was testing enough. I will finish it in the near future.

Jon

[Bertie McBoatface]

I agree entirely about the challenges of wooden kits. They are the hardest things I’ve ever attempted. And I started small! My Bellerophon is only half the size of Victory and is currently beyond my capacities, at least until I’ve completed Beagle and one or two other medium sized ships. 
 

That’s why I’m expecting this build to be so interesting. How well will you, Strato rise to the challenge? I'm sure that you will.
 

Would you care to guess at this point how long she will take to complete? My very rough estimate based on the hours I’ve spent so far on Beagle would be 2000+ hours but over how many weeks?

[Stratomonkey]

@Ray, @Jon & @ Bertie

 

I shall try to answer you all here in one go.

 

I too am confined by space and my skill set is better than it was with my two previously failed attempts I had the Artesania Latina HMS Bounty Longboat which was a disaster and I tried the HMS Victory partworks (Artesania Latina) a few years ago and got tired of waiting for bits to arrive every four weeks.

 

The main reasons I joined this forum and put this one up here is because it can be a bit boring doing this on one's own. Secondly, I am hoping that it may be interesting enough for fellow modellers to have a look at that it might provide me with the drive and enthusiasm to go all the way through with this build. Also I might need a little help and guidance along the way too.

 

This essentially is a "Bucket List Build" and I am very excited about doing this kit and ever so looking forward to doing it, hopefully to a standard befitting of the quality of this kit and of the standard I should be capable of.

 

I am expecting this to take, over time, about a year or two. I am not looking at weeks or months, I haven't even considered weeks! I have a very intense job and I am using this build as a thing to do to unwind, however mad that may seem.

 

Oddly enough I had just acquired the Shipyard HMS Victory paper kit which I was going to do. The day after I ordered that I found the Caldercraft kit going on eBay. 

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

2 hours ago, Stratomonkey said:

might provide me with the drive and enthusiasm to go all the way through with this build. Also I might need a little help and guidance along the way too.

Britmodeller is very good for encouragement and support and I’m sure we’ll help out as much as possible with the build too. There aren’t many of us with wooden boat experience compared to the plastic aircraft side of the forum but maybe that makes us more interested in each other’s builds?

[Faraway]

11 hours ago, Stratomonkey said:

Oddly enough I had just acquired the Shipyard HMS Victory paper kit which I was going to do

If you’re interested, here’s my stalled build of a Shipyard paper/card kit.

Which, I hope to return to soon.

Jon

[Stratomonkey]

10 hours ago, Faraway said:

If you’re interested, here’s my stalled build of a Shipyard paper/card kit.

Which, I hope to return to soon.

Jon

Thank, I'm most definitely interest, I have been looking through it and will be going in depth a little more deeply over the coming weekend. 

[Bertie McBoatface]

Your Victory build is raising my maritime mojo and driving me back to the Beagle. 😁 This is a good thing and an example of the way BM works its encouragements. I'm thinking "I'll be able to finish Beagle and maybe Bellerophon could be completed around the same time as Victory and then between us we'd have a sizeable lump of the Trafalgar fleet." 😃 

 

And then I remember the tanks I have committed to building... 😑

[Stratomonkey]

11 hours ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

Your Victory build is raising my maritime mojo and driving me back to the Beagle. 😁 This is a good thing and an example of the way BM works its encouragements. I'm thinking "I'll be able to finish Beagle and maybe Bellerophon could be completed around the same time as Victory and then between us we'd have a sizeable lump of the Trafalgar fleet." 😃 

 

And then I remember the tanks I have committed to building... 😑

Im glad it has had that effect on you. There's nothing more influential for me than to watch others build these things and that gets my building juices, namely the glue, flowing, so much so that I will updating my build later on today. Im going to check out some other builds going on in time too.

 

You have also reminded me that waiting in the wings (for some years now) are the Tamiya 1/25th Chieftain & Centurion and the Revell Apollo 11 Saturn V 1/96 scale but right now Im not really much interested in getting these done. My main focus is the Victory.

[Bertie McBoatface]

17 minutes ago, Stratomonkey said:

My main focus is the Victory

I find it difficult not to be distracted from a long build. Sometimes I seem to need a result. I must finish something!!

 

 I’m not letting it bother me anymore though. It’s actually OK for me to play with more than one toy at once, whatever my parents used to tell me when I made a mess of my room. 😁

 

I build the boats over years, the tanks take months, and a figure might be painted in a day. I’ll weave them all together in whatever way suits my mood. 
 

I clear my toys away at the end of each day anyway so even the spirits of the dead should be content. 🙂🙂

[Stratomonkey]

 

This morning has seen the false keel glued on, the bar is a steel 12".

 

 

I knew I had this book somewhere, it was bugging me so I had to tear the flat apart to find it but I found it last night languishing in the bottom of a box in a cupboard. "If Carlsberg did books"........ I found it in a charity shop for a couple of quid.

 

The drawings and diagrams as well as loads information on the hull planking and decking dimensions are priceless. 

[Bertie McBoatface]

She is the best documented Man o' War ever. I have two or three books on her and I have relatively little interest in First Rates. 

 

The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships by C Nepean Longridge (1960) is a brilliant printed version of a WIP, serving as instructions for a 1/48 scratchbuild. The drawings are excellent and the writing is charming and lucid. It's my favourite!

[Stratomonkey]

On 24/09/2022 at 12:30, Bertie McBoatface said:

She is the best documented Man o' War ever. I have two or three books on her and I have relatively little interest in First Rates. 

 

The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships by C Nepean Longridge (1960) is a brilliant printed version of a WIP, serving as instructions for a 1/48 scratchbuild. The drawings are excellent and the writing is charming and lucid. It's my favourite!

I shall look out for that

[Stratomonkey]

This carries a !!! Boring ALERT !!!!. you have been warned!  Kudos to you if you get to the end of this.

 

Okay, so, at the weekend I decided that everything I had dry fitted would be glued. I was satisfied that the ship, like my torpedoes, was running straight and true. Even though, and I do accept that Torpedoes weren't really around in vast amounts back in the 18th & 19th century.

 

The job of the bearding line had already been completed, the rabbets or rabbits (the groove that the bottom planks fit to the Keel had been cut

 

The time came to bite this particular bullet, or musket ball, if I am to stay somewhat in that era and get the glue out. My choice of glue for the hull framework was simple eco-stick interior glue, The only thing though, and I didn't realise until it was almost too late, and I will come to that later, that it was the Fast Setting Formula. I didn't want that for the main framework because I wanted some time to make adjustments if I needed to while gluing in the frames to the Keel.

 

Ah, the Keel. Yes, 5mm of solid CNC cut ply and warped to boot! I finally figured out, after a few hours trying during the week how to straighten it ..... a bit! Sorry no photos because I didn't know if it was going to work or not. Lots of hot water and heavy weights involved there. The fit of the frames (they call 'em bulkheads in the Caldercraft manual) to the Keel is what I would call a very good interference fit, in fact so good that the keel slots and the frame slots needed quite a bit of fettling and filing for them to fit. Almost 1mm off either side of each frame slot and each Keel slot and there is 18 of them all in 5mm Ply. I really enjoyed myself the last couple weeks getting these frames to fit. the fit I was after was not tight and not loose but enough to wiggle them and get set squares clamped in to each frame, either side of the keel for the necessary 90 deg. angle correct. So I glued each one in one at a time.

 

I was doing fine with everything until I hit Frame 8 which, for some inexplicable reason I glued in to frame 9 slot, this is where the fast setting glue almost tripped me up. I used a very thin amount of glue for the slot joints and kept a very close eye on things as I went checking and double checking, gluing and clamping and squaring up. Except for frame 8 which I checked three times in slot 8 before gluing  it solidly in place in slot 9!  When I noticed, to my total abject horror 10 minutes later it was stuck fast. However after about an hour of working it and almost breaking the keel and Frame 8, which had had copious amounts of hot water poured into the slot I slowly worked it free. Of course the ply had also swelled so that made it even more difficult but I got it out. All went well after that, the remaining 10 frames went in perfectly. I should also mention that whilst wresting frame 8 out of no.9 slot I also happen to cut myself on the bloody thing and proceeded to bleed all over the keel! Again for the sake of discretion and taste there are no photos of this.

 

Also I missed the fact that that the manual and the drawings quite clearly state not to glue on the aft false keel and stern post. However I have done but I don't really see that would cause a major problem. If need be I have enough spare walnut to fabricate these again if I have to.

 

I have also fitted the false gun port strips both below and above that really chunky deck, yes the 5mm ply again, and they need to be bent to get through the locating slots! That proved to be a feat of strength and enough delicacy at the same time not to break them. These are not glued in yet but soon will be as I need to glue the ones below the deck into place from behind and I need to remove the above deck ones and the deck to do so. I have yet decided what the next job will be after gluing the deck and the false gun strips but I suspect it may be a bit of planking as some has to be done on that deck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So far we are just shy of 37" (its actually 938mm dead on) in length and over that length I think I have it that it is overall 1mm out of true. But it fits nicely on a 2 seater settee.

 

Thats it for now.

 

Thanks 😀

[Faraway]

I think you’ve earned a sit down in a darkened room, with something cold and vaguely alcoholic.

In the words of the song......

            “it can only get better”

Jon

[Stratomonkey]

8 hours ago, Faraway said:

I think you’ve earned a sit down in a darkened room, with something cold and vaguely alcoholic.

In the words of the song......

            “it can only get better”

Jon

Thanks I think I will, I have the flu now!

[Bertie McBoatface]

That looks good and true. Well done. I enjoyed your story about the bulkhead in the wrong slot. I've done exactly the same!

 

They are properly called bulkheads rather than frames because frames obviously didn't go all the way across the inside of the ship but were only at the edges. Some kits and many scratch-builds are 'plank on frame' with the frames made up in the same way as the originals from many pieces of wood. There are also ten times as many frames as we have to worry about in 'plank on bulkhead' construction. Roughly speaking the length of the ship is half frame and half 'space between frame'. Bulkhead kit manufacturers are sometimes sloppy in their terminology so that the ones that actually do frames now have to identify as 'real plank on frame construction'.

[Stratomonkey]

7 hours ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

That looks good and true. Well done. I enjoyed your story about the bulkhead in the wrong slot. I've done exactly the same!

 

They are properly called bulkheads rather than frames because frames obviously didn't go all the way across the inside of the ship but were only at the edges. Some kits and many scratch-builds are 'plank on frame' with the frames made up in the same way as the originals from many pieces of wood. There are also ten times as many frames as we have to worry about in 'plank on bulkhead' construction. Roughly speaking the length of the ship is half frame and half 'space between frame'. Bulkhead kit manufacturers are sometimes sloppy in their terminology so that the ones that actually do frames now have to identify as 'real plank of frame construction'.

Thanks, at least I am not alone in the right bulkhead in the wrong slot club . I've had the blood, I've had the sweat and I am sure along the way there will be tears too, there almost was at the weekend. I noticed that on some models that they are Plank on Frame and Ive seen some of the Admiralty models in museums and such. They are unreal! I'd love to have a go at one of those with the correct number of frames and see how close it comes to actually looking like a ship.