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1/72 or 20mm Wargaming


sardaukar

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Hello posting this here as my interest is mainly around the vehicles and not the figures so much.

 

I have a background in wargaming but mainly games workshop and their 40k setting and its various games.

 

When I got into scale modelling more recently I did become aware that many use the models for historical war gaming especially in the smaller scales, however whenever I've searched online for 1/72 or 20mm war gaming I dont find very much. So my question is does anyone on here game in 1/72 or 20mm scale? And if you do what rules systems do you use? 

 

I am aware that most systems are centred on ww2 but is there any flexible systems that would also allow say cold war or modern. Ideally id envisage some online resource with the main game rules and then unit stats for pretty much every AFV ever produced. If this sounds a lot like a table top version of world of tanks or war thunder then I guess that is exactly what I am looking for and wondering if it exists.

 

Cheers

 

Calum

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Well, many years (decades) ago I used to do WW2 wargaming. We used Operation Warboard and Airfix rules - and various homemade sets. Later, there was Wargame Research Group rules, but they seemed a bit too complicated.

 

Sorry Calum, probably not much use to you. I do remember that WRG were intended to cover fairly wide historical periods and just about every vehicle. I'm sure they're long gone, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone else took up the mantle of producing similar 'universal' rules.

 

 

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Thanks Ian, you gave me enough to go searching. "Wargames Rules for All-arms Land Warfare from Platoon to Battalion Level" is available on amazon although not sure I fancy spending 20 quid on it :).

 

I am still wondering what everyone does with their Plastic Soldier Company and armourfast kits, they seem to sell well enough. Some other manufacturers like S-models are often accused of being for wargamers if that's the case what are they playing? S-models has a fairly eclectic range of kits. First to Fight seems to have a games system although maybe not so much in English.

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A lot of WWII rules sets are reasonably scale agnostic. I'd go for What A Tanker by Too Fat Lardies for a pure tank game in 20 mm, and either the Lardies' I Ain't Been Shot Mum or PSC's Battlegroup rules for a combined arms one at company level. Flames of War would probably work OK, as 1/72 scale isn't that much bigger than 1/100. Then there's Bolt Action, which seems to normally be played in 28 mm but shouldn't have any problems coming down a scale.

 

While I think WWII rules would probably work fine for Korean War, I'm not sure about extending them any further into the Cold War era, or at least past the 1956 Arab-Israeli War, which did see a lot of WWII equipment still in use.

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There is Rapid Fire too.

 

But you specifically mentioned later wars so you could check out Pendraken’s Cold War Commander.

 

https://www.pendraken.co.uk/ncwc-2-rules-ncold-war-commander-2-rulebook-6949-p.asp

 

Also it depends on what sort of size of battles you want to put on but if you are talking a lot of units, especially vehicles, it can get quite expensive and large in 20mm.

 

Dropping down to 15mm or even 10mm can lower the price significantly.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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13 hours ago, Richard Humm said:

A lot of WWII rules sets are reasonably scale agnostic. I'd go for What A Tanker by Too Fat Lardies for a pure tank game in 20 mm, and either the Lardies' I Ain't Been Shot Mum or PSC's Battlegroup rules for a combined arms one at company level. Flames of War would probably work OK, as 1/72 scale isn't that much bigger than 1/100. Then there's Bolt Action, which seems to normally be played in 28 mm but shouldn't have any problems coming down a scale.

 

While I think WWII rules would probably work fine for Korean War, I'm not sure about extending them any further into the Cold War era, or at least past the 1956 Arab-Israeli War, which did see a lot of WWII equipment still in use.

 

Some great recommendations, and I think I will check out What a tanker at least. A long time ago I decided computer games were the way to go for stuff like this but they miss that personal element where you are playing with units you have built and painted yourself.

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13 hours ago, nheather said:

There is Rapid Fire too.

 

But you specifically mentioned later wars so you could check out Pendraken’s Cold War Commander.

 

https://www.pendraken.co.uk/ncwc-2-rules-ncold-war-commander-2-rulebook-6949-p.asp

 

Also it depends on what sort of size of battles you want to put on but if you are talking a lot of units, especially vehicles, it can get quite expensive and large in 20mm.

 

Dropping down to 15mm or even 10mm can lower the price significantly.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm just taking a look for now, no plans for building a whole army, but I know how these things can go. At least I imagine this is way cheaper than Warhammer.

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20mm can be surprisingly expensive - a big decision is whether to go plastic or metal?

 

Plastic is significantly cheaper, often crisper and more detailed, but metal has heft and is more robust - metal is nicer to game with.

 

But a single tank in 20mm is going to set you back at least £10, likewise a squad (or section if you are British) would be around £10.  Plastic would be a lot cheaper.

 

An then there is scenery - more eye-watering that the figures and vehicles in my opinion.

 

Sources of 20mm WW2 figures and vehicles

 

Metal - https://shqltd.com

 

Metal - https://earlywarminiatures.com

 

Plastic - https://www.theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk

 

There are others but they are good places to start.

 

If you go 15mm prices almost halve and 10mm is cheaper still.

 

Then it comes to the scale of the game and how much abstraction you are happy with - does a model tank represent a tank, or a tank squadron. 

 

Then there is ground scale - WWII and especially post-war tank engagements take place over large distances - if you want the model and ground scale to be similar you end up needing a huge playing table at 20mm.

 

 

 

 

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Have you considered "Flames Of War" system? Some of their starter boxsets are good value they are 15mm or 1:100 scale models so a bit smaller than your 1:72/76 stuff but quite a popular system I understand.

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You have Zvezda 1/72 wargame ww2.

Figures and Arty are1/72, vehicles are 1/100 and aircraft are 1/144, boats are 1/350

in set you get a figures/model, base, a flagpole and a playing card. Models have otion of being assembled as static models without a base

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20 hours ago, Rumblestripe said:

Have you considered "Flames Of War" system? Some of their starter boxsets are good value they are 15mm or 1:100 scale models so a bit smaller than your 1:72/76 stuff but quite a popular system I understand.

 

I think 15mm is a good compromise between detail and price.

 

In my opinion 10mm is a little too small when it comes to modern infantry.  Good for ancients to napoleonic though where you want to show big blocks of infantry.

 

If the game is primarily mechanised, particularly, cold war and later, then 10mm works well as you can put down a lot more vehicles for an acceptable price and the ground scale looks good too.

 

20mm is an odd scale, falling out of favour, it is a little small for skirmish (platoon level) which is best done in 25mm or 28mm in my opinion, but it is maybe too big and expensive for battalion and regiment sized games.  Maybe get away with company level but personally I'd still lean towards 15mm for that.

 

A warning about wargaming 15mm scales - companies play a little fast and loose with some making figures that are truly 15mm and others making figures that are closer to 18mm.  Fine if you stick to the same brand but can look odd if you mix brands.

 

Another wargaming feature is 'heroic pose' - this is where the sculpts are chunkier than reality - this is done for two reasons, one to make the figures stand out but mostly to make them more robust so that they don't break when playing.

 

I have a few armies:

 

20mm, German and French, 1940, platoon level skirmish

 

28mm, German and Russian, 1941/2, platoon level skirmish

 

15mm, British and German, 1944, company level

 

I have a boardgame set in a fictional 'what-if' Rhineland cold war which I quite fancy recreating in 10mm.

 

The first thing (which I find a lot more difficult than it sounds) is to decide what sort of engagement and abstraction you want.  Platoon level or company level which can be done with 1:1 figure representation or battalion, regiment or division which need some degree of abstraction.

 

How long you want the game to last and how many will playing are also factors to consider.

 

Another factor is which aspect interests you the modelling, painting, history research, gaming.  If you enjoyingbthe modelling and painting then 25mm and 28mm are best.  If you want to get an army finished and on the table quickly then 10mm and 15mm are the best.  20mm gives you a bit of both, modelling and painting can be quite rewarding but is still quick enough to get to the table quickly.

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thanks all, lots of great info here, not sure building a wargaming army is a rabbit hole I need to go down right now with a modelling stash that grows a bit more every month. I'll just be content making tank noises as some of my models contest ownership of my cutting map. Or just play warthunder badly on the PC 😀.

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