Data storage advice sought

[Enzo the Magnificent]

I have a rather extensive music collection which I currently store on an external hard disk.  This is 2TB but as my collection is approaching 1.5TB, it's about time for me to expand my storage.  I also have to consider that if that external HD failed and I lost all that music, I would be devastated.  A lot of it is (legally) recorded radio shows which are irreplaceable.

 

To solve the single point storage problem, I have uploaded most of the irreplaceable stuff to a couple of cloud storage accounts.  However, being an old luddite, I don't really trust cloud storage.  I would be much happier having all my music on a couple of external HDs.

 

So...   I bought two 4TB external SSDs and started transferring music to them.  Here's the problem.  The SSDs simply didn't like accepting large amounts of data. Usually at the 100MB point, Windows would report a data anomaly and be unable to read them, forcing me to reformat them and start all over again.

 

Obviously this isn't a reliable option for long term data storage. 

 

Full disclosure - I bought these SSDs for 25 quid each from evilbay.   I assume my problem is that they are just cheap and nasty?    Or is this a prevalent problem with external SSD data storage?

 

If I buy from a reputable manufacturer such as Seagate or Western Digital (albeit at four times the price) what are the chances of the problem recurring?  I have seen similar problems with large SD cards even from reputable manufacturers.

 

Does anyone have any other options for data storage?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

[Moggy]

What you describe is the very opposite of backup

 

My choice would be the LaCie rugged external SSD. mechanical HDD

I use two 5Tb and a 2Tb as external backups. Well worth the money, come with 2 years recovery guarantee. USB 3.1 so nice speed, never had a problem

I have been using their earlier brethren since 2014 - never a fault. When disconnected they are rated for 90G fall 😜

 

Works well in both Windows and Linux environments

 

Buy the right equipment and it will last you a long BORING time - yes the best that can be said of a backup (system) is that's boring. No excitement whatsoever 🥸

 

Cheers, Moggy

 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Moggy
silly factual error

[Mike]

I would recommend Synology NASes for your data, as they are available on the network, you can use two to backup each other, and even have an offsite backup if you've got access to another location.  it's times like these that I wish my folks had fast internet

 

I'm gonna drop you a PM, as I might be able to twist your arm on getting one

 

[Mike]

23 minutes ago, Moggy said:

LaCie rugged external SSD.

If you want to have long-term data integrity, SSDs are still less reliable than an HDD, and once you get over 2TB they're very expensive.  Check the warranty on any SSD you buy, which will tell you how long they expect it to last.  Some of the first ones I naively bought were only 3 years, and most of those died soon after.  I generally choose SSD or NvMe drives with a much longer warranty now.  Some of mine have 10 year warranty.

 

1 hour ago, Enzo Matrix said:

I don't really trust cloud storage. 

Me neither.  Synology NASes can create your own personal cloud that you can access from anywhere, just in case you are on holiday and want to inflict your hideous taste in music on new people

[Moggy]

The external LaCie disks here are mechanical not SSD 😳

The 2 years free recovery service can for a modest sum be extended to the disk's full 5-year guarantee

 

Mike is quite right on his evaluation of external SSD vs. mechanical 🧐

 

I'm laboring under the influence of COVID and today is the first day with fever under 38 C during the last 7 days.

Two of those days were 39 C totally knocking my socks off...

Thank science for a triple dose of the vaccine!  Without which I probably be explaining myself to Saint Peter.

 

In other words my overheated hardware makes my mental processes slightly unreliable 🤣

...Mother says that my guarantee run out when I filled 18 so no help there 😷

 

Cheers, Moggy

[Circloy]

2 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

Full disclosure - I bought these SSDs for 25 quid each from evilbay.   I assume my problem is that they are just cheap and nasty?    Or is this a prevalent problem with external SSD data storage?

Memory cards can be set up to miss report their storage capacity. I got caught out once, an e-bay purchase but managed to obtain a refund. It appears it is possible to do the same with a SSD unit.

 

I'd be trying for a refund on the basis they're either faulty or not as described.

 

e-bay link

[Rob G]

SSDs are not recommended as long term/critical storage, they're much too prone to damage by random radiation and failure without warning. Magnetic drives are still the best option that we have for long term data storage. 3 copies, one off-site, cycled through regular backups as data changes, with full backups of all 3 whenever major changes happen. (That's how (in theory...) I manage my photography, for what reason I know not.) Failing that, a paid cloud storage set up with a company that you trust to protect your data from loss and that won't sell your details to random (good luck with that...).

 

Whichever option you choose, there will always be a need for some manual intervention by you, from the initial backup, to intermediate refreshes to migrating data to new devices when the time comes. Let's not even talk about file formats... 

 

I Installed Samsung SSDs (a 1.5tb and 2tb) into my laptop, for the low power consumption and their inherent impact resistance. They're excellent, but I won't rely on them for long term storage.

 

As for fake memory cards (and SSDs are just memory cards writ large) this may be an interesting read. While a bit old, I do not imagine that the situation has changed for the better. 

 

https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=1022

 

Read the article and also have a browse through the comments. 

[alt-92]

20 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

Full disclosure - I bought these SSDs for 25 quid each from evilbay. 

 

A decent, mainstream 1TB SSD is around 100€ over here.   Anything significantly cheaper has that certain 'if it sounds too good'  vibe, and certainly is not something I'd trust for storing things permanently.

 

For the rest: what @Moggy and @Rob G says: backup is something different from plain storage. I'd keep one platter HDD off-site as well once synced.

 

 

 

 

[Mike]

20 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

The SSDs simply didn't like accepting large amounts of data. Usually at the 100MB point

Hadn't spotted that earlier, and yes they might be "dodgy" in some shape or form.  There are file size limits on drive formats though.  Check you're not formatting them with an outdated format that has an inappropriately low maximum file size.  It's an outside chance, and it might solve your problem if you format them with a more modern... erm... format.  Worth a look, but I wouldn't depend on SSDs from a less-than-reputable source to keep my precious data.  Grab a Seagate Ironwolf or some other brand of drive that's certified for 24/7/365 NAS use rather than on/off use in a PC.  Synology now do their own branded disks, but they're probably white-labelled, although you do get a valuable guarantee included in the price.

 

You could go mad, spend a load of money and have a lot of fun/confuse yourself, if you put your mind to it

[alt-92]

11 minutes ago, Mike said:

There are file size limits on drive formats though.

FAT32 had a 4GB limit per file.

Assuming Enzo uses Windows, that formatting option is not even standard anymore since XP went the way of the dodo

Standard is NTFS and that has none of those issues (it has others, but that is for people who are going into PetaByte territory).

I suspect those '4TB' SSDs are not 4TB but the controllers on those chipboards have 'fake' firmware on it (as linked above) so it reports more than the actual size. 
Guaranteed dataloss.  Run very far and fast!
 

[Mike]

5 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

FAT32 had a 4GB limit per file.

Assuming Enzo uses Windows, that formatting option is not even standard anymore since XP went the way of the dodo

Standard is NTFS and that has none of those issues (it has others, but that is for people who are going into PetaByte territory).

I went looking for a quick list of size and file limits, but got distracted by Synology's Hyperbackup software

[ckw]

To my mind what you want is an archive, not a backup. Backup systems are about secure storage which may change (e.g. the contents of a database), possibly frequently which introduces a whole bunch of additional factors which I don't think would concern you.

 

An archive, on the other hand is a write once then (hopefully) forget setup, so performance is not a big issue. I would opt for mechanical disks, and you don't need to shell out for fast ones. If you want to be extra safe, buy duplicate drives and store them in separate locations (to protect against fire, lightning strikes, flood etc). 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Enzo the Magnificent]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Hadn't spotted that earlier, and yes they might be "dodgy" in some shape or form.  There are file size limits on drive formats though.  Check you're not formatting them with an outdated format that has an inappropriately low maximum file size. 

 

 

I was using Windows 8.  Yes, my laptop is/was that old!  However, since Windows scared me half to death by giving me a blue screen warning me that Windows 8 won't be supported after January, I bought a new laptop.  Windows 11.  This one has a 500GB SSD as opposed to the 1TB HDD on the old one so that makes external storage even more necessary.

[Enzo the Magnificent]

1 hour ago, alt-92 said:

I suspect those '4TB' SSDs are not 4TB but the controllers on those chipboards have 'fake' firmware on it (as linked above) so it reports more than the actual size. 

Guaranteed dataloss.  Run very far and fast!
 

 

I had come to the same conclusion.     I'll still use them for very temporary storage - as in transferring files from one computer to another.  But no long term storage on these. 

[Mike]

14 minutes ago, Enzo Matrix said:

as in transferring files from one computer to another.

Just get some network cables and link both computers to your router (or a switch), share your drives, and you're away.  Much faster than piddling about swapping physical drives around, although it's a bit easier in caddies.

[Enzo the Magnificent]

1 minute ago, Mike said:

Just get some network cables and link both computers to your router (or a switch), share your drives, and you're away. 

 

   Never thought of that.

 

I'm so pleased I asked for advice here!   

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

There, umm, have been fake devices uncovered by a watchdog in the USA.

 

 

Walmart has been found to be selling multi-TB hard drives which appeared to work but cacked-out at rather small storage volumes. Cracking the plastic case open they were just cheap little SD cards stuck in a board. The computer could recognise it as a storage device and even fool the system as to its capacity but ultimately it was just a plastic box with a little SD card inside.

 

If you're feeling brave with one of your eBay purchases, maybe have a look inside it  

 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/akek8e/walmart-30tb-ssd-hard-drive-scam-sd-cards

[Mike]

Just now, Enzo Matrix said:

   Never thought of that.

I do that all the time

 

I'm still mucking about trying to complete the configuration of my NASes at the moment, making bad decisions on how to do it, mainly because information about these things aren't readily available.

 

Who knew that transferring HDDs from a Synology 16-bit NAS to a 32-bit NAS would perpetuate the 16TB maximum size for a volume?

[Enzo the Magnificent]

6 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

If you're feeling brave with one of your eBay purchases, maybe have a look inside it 

 

They are cheap and nasty and have been proven not to work properly.  What do I have to lose? 

 

And your comment about "cracking the plastic case open" will be correct.  They are sealed up tightly with no way to open them without damaging them. Bit of a shame as the brushed aluminium casing looks really quite smart.  

 

It may be relevant to point out that the evilbay vendor was removed from eBay about a month after I bought these drives.  There are plenty of other vendors offering identical items though. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144715026113?hash=item21b1b00ec1:g:C2gAAOSwhsBjIEb9&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4BSpmNRdHENb96TqGDKVT%2FxhGy8DASi778Ax%2BUN4JW6eqyqXWIfyuO2g8wpeHsdMeBTfi7qCKtZTAOG6wur%2BS2nMHWO9dWlvu%2BjcZeJnDj4mvYdWfmAogeDSvyxlolZ5wuwUyItn15m2E8pIuXt3%2FIps8dB5BIlNhUgJ%2BGkx%2FsVOaufbNFyO5TY%2FFuKHJXBlfTdVdAhedJfi4goS%2BeBMIA9Z9kDLNcUcurtqS1sypcsrfbI6W0DHE%2Ft3fxNO9tstsrSS1hUBdjTSI%2FziAvnREaDi2oJOnXn8gDZC2FdAIEG9|tkp%3ABFBMsNG-3-xg

[Enzo the Magnificent]

15 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/akek8e/walmart-30tb-ssd-hard-drive-scam-sd-cards

 

Aha!  They are identical to my SSDs... 

[Mike]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Matrix said:

 

Aha!  They are identical to my SSDs... 

Ya nitwit! I'm sorry for your loss of the quids you spent, but the fact that a 16TB SSD is only £3 more than a 4TB is a bit of a clue   It is cuttin-edgee though  

[Enzo the Magnificent]

4 minutes ago, Mike said:

Ya nitwit!

Oi!  I resemble that remark!   

 

On the positive side, I have a couple of nice brushed aluminium bases for 1/35 figures!   

[Mike]

Just now, Enzo Matrix said:

Oi!  I resemble that remark!   

I know I'm genuinely laughing here, but mein gott! Those cheapo pieces of are ALL OVER eBay at the moment.  That one you linked to is coming from that there China, so they probably get lots of people to buy them over a few days/weeks, wait for the crappy feedback, dump the account/get banned, and start again with a fresh account.  Sneaky, devious little bleepers

[Enzo the Magnificent]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

Those cheapo pieces of are ALL OVER eBay at the moment.  That one you linked to is coming from that there China, so they probably get lots of people to buy them over a few days/weeks, wait for the crappy feedback, dump the account/get banned, and start again with a fresh account.  Sneaky, devious little bleepers

 

My thoughts exactly.  Ah well...  live and learn. 

 

From the comments in this thread, I'm going to go for a couple of mechanical drives from a reputable manufacturer.    I like your NAS solution but I think that's a little over the top for my needs at the moment.  However, I must admit I'm tempted just by the gadget aspect.  

[Mike]

1 minute ago, Enzo Matrix said:

I must admit I'm tempted just by the gadget aspect.  

I have the same problem Happy to help you get set up if you decide to go Synology.  You can learn from my mistakes