Hawker Tempest Mk. V Series 1 Radiator/Intake

[Curt B]

Hi All,

 

I have a question for any of you who may be Tempest enthusiasts, like I am!  I saw a great Work in Progress thread from back in 2018 about a 1/48 Eduard Tempest Mk. Series 1 build which was great, but there was some discussion about the 'chin' radiator inlet and engine air intake that wasn't ever really completed.  I have already built an Eduard Series 2, which includes a photo etch framework for the filter which was placed in front of the carburetor intake, and it looks like the 2018 build did something similar, by scratch building, for his intake.  I'm currently working on an Eduard Tempest Mk. V Series 1 (which is going to have the dropped landing flaps (Eduard aftermarket) and will also have D Day Invasion stripes.  My first Tempest was pretty 'plain vanilla' Mk. V Series 2, and I wanted my next one to get pretty 'dolled up'!  A side note...I'd been, frankly terrified about trying to use the landing flap aftermarket set, because, not only does the amount of PE bending look significant, the worst part is the significant amount of kit plastic that has to be cut off in order to have room for the top part (the non moving part' of the flap assembly).  I've done all the PE construction, which turned out really easy, but now about to have to do styrene surgery on kit plastic...very, very scary to me!!!!

 

Anyway, back to my question.  A few years back, I bought several Barracuda Cast aftermarket parts to use primarily on the Series 1 plane.  The Barracuda upgrade includes a new framework (in Resin) which supports the 'cuckoo clock' set of doors, and these doors are in turn supported by a rather spindly set of photo etch 'arms'.  I want to know, regarding whether there were any Series 1 planes that held either the cuckoo clock or other filtration devices, or if the 'tube' supplying air to the engine was left open in the 'Series 1' planes. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Curt B
General syntax errors

[Ray_W]

Watch this here. It will answer your question:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmZo6SRsrbk

 

I backdated my original Eduard 97 Series 2 release to a Series 1 with a lot of mod work - thinned wings, lengthened fuselage, new fin, new undercarriage etc. etc etc. I re-did the intake and left it open. 

 

 

Ray

 

 

[stevehnz]

It would be my understanding that a Series 1 aircraft would have had an open intake, at least initially. The various dust filters of which the cuckoo doors were one iteration, came after operations on makeshift airfields in Europe introduced a dust nuisance to the detriment of engine wear. I'm not sure how many if any Series one aircraft were still operational at that time.

Steve.

[Curt B]

WOW, SPECTACULAR ANSWERS, gentlemen!!!!!  Thanks to both of you!!  My question has clearly been answered, now, which is that Series 1 Tempests have an open 'tube' in the middle of the radiator which supplies combustion air to the engine.  That video is beyond great...and will help a LOT in my future Tempest builds regarding weathering.

 

Ray, your Tempest is fabulous!  I have some questions for you now, though, if would be additionally so kind to answer for me.  (I am a huge Tempest fan, and have a number of as-yet unbuilt 1/48 Eduard Tempest Mk. V and Mk. II planes).  All of my Tempests are the latest 1/48 Eduard moldings.  The information you provided about modifying your 1997 vintage Eduard plane from a Series 2 into a Series 1 brings up a number of points.  My impression is that the only differences BETWEEN THE LATEST (2021/2022) EDUARD SERIES 1 AND SERIES 2 KITS are as follows:

• The Series 1 kit includes photo etch stiffening plates for the aft end of the fuselage just before the empennage.
• The Series 1 kit has longer gun barrels extending in front of the wings than the Series 2 kit.
• The Series 1 kit does not include the filter unit in front of the air supply to the engine in photo etch like the Series 2 kit does.
• The Series 1 has different liveries than the Series 2 kit.

As far as I can tell, those are the only differences.  You specifically mentioned "thinned wings, lengthened fuselage, new fin, new undercarriage..." as changes that were needed to convert the 1997 vintage Series 2 Tempest into a Series 1 plane.  None of those aspects are present between the current vintage Eduard Series 1 and 2 Tempests, unless I'm really missing something.  In fact, I just checked the plastic, and I'm still thinking that the only difference are those I've outlined above, and don't include the changes you stated in your post.  Does this mean Eduard erred in the differences between their current Series 1 and 2 planes?  I'm REALLY curious, now!

[Ray_W]

41 minutes ago, Curt B said:

Does this mean Eduard erred in the differences between their current Series 1 and 2 planes?

The mod work from Series 2 to 1 was not a lot. Most of the work was correcting Eduard's first attempt at the Tempest. It looks like Eduard did a good job of fixing up their old Tempest kit which had thick awful wings and fin, incorrect prop shape, short fuselage length (a lot of debate on this - I opted for the Bentley drawings), and terrible undercarriage. There was hardly anything I did not replace or rework. I did much work improving the wheel wells, actuating mechanisms and the cockpit with vacu-formed canopies. Seeing I was very happy with the result that I had achieved with the old kit, I saw no point in making their later rendition. A very satisfying build and one of my favourites.

 

The usuals for Series 1 are as you said with the one addition - the longer barrels, the stiffening plates (and check this is the case in a reference photo of your chosen subject if you can) and the bulge over the wing spar attachment point that was moved from above to below. In the Series 2 it is a smaller bulge under the wing. In the Series 1 there is an ugly bulge on the top at the wing root like so:

 

 

I removed the underside bulge and added the topside bulge. You will clearly see this in images of Series 1 aircraft.

 

I did not weather it heavily as it was relatively new in service on Diver patrols. Sadly Flying Officer Ted Kosh lost his life in this aircraft in July 1944. I think the cause is still unknown.

 

I finished this build as a KUTA GB here on BM as I had stalled on the undercarriage and then Eduard released their new kit and the lovely aftermarket bronze undercarriage. Problem solved. Good excuse to finish. The WIP is here:

 

 

Ray

[Curt B]

Ahhhhh...I think I get it now, Ray.  If I DO understand it correctly, the majority of your 'fixes' were not really related to the Series 2 to Series 1, but rather fixing the errors that were present in the 1997 vintage Eduard kit as compared to the real plane.  Is that correct?  So, it makes sense that the current vintage (2021/2022) kits have now fixed, for the most part, the fixes that you so laboriously had to make yourself.  And thus there was no need for you to build the new versions, since you already did it yourself.  You clearly have far more capabilities and talent to do that huge amount of scratch building which I could only dream about.  I guess that makes me more of an 'assembler' as opposed to a real 'modeler', which you clearly are!  Since that type of skill set is not something I possess, I am trying to improve my painting and weathering skills, and just trying to do my best at building 'clean' models, which includes restoring panel lines and rivets that get lost when trying to eliminate seams (from filling and sanding).  

 

Thanks for you quick response to my questions!  I'm now planning to go back and take a look at the threads and posts you have made for other builds and aircraft, as I'm sure I'll learn a great deal, both about modeling in general, and about specific airplanes.

[Ray_W]

1 hour ago, Curt B said:

were not really related to the Series 2 to Series 1, but rather fixing the errors that were present in the 1997 vintage Eduard kit as compared to the real plane.  Is that correct?

 

Yes. This is correct. I also don't think of anyone as "assemblers" or "real" modellers. We are all gradually building our skill set, just at a different stage along the same path.  

 

 

[Dave Swindell]

The Sabre undernose radiator/oil cooler/intake arrangement didn't change from the Typhoon through to the Tempest V, it consisted of the engine radiator block with a centrally mounted circular oil cooler with the carburetor intake passing through the centre of the oil cooler.

 

When it was realised that dust ingestion was causing engine problems a deflector system was tried, consisting of a dome arrangement in front of the carburetor intake, this reduced the ingestion problem but didn't cure it

 

This was followed by an annular filter unit fitted to the front of the intake tube with a blank metal plate front, this was much more effective, but the filter unit was liable to be blown off forwards through the propeller if the engine backfired during starting.

 

(Not a Typoon/Tempet filter, but it gives the general idea...)

 

To prevent this spring loaded forward opening "cuckoo" doors were fitted in the metal plate front of the filter unit.

 

The dome and filter units were easily removeable add-ons and not specific to aircraft type/mark, more they would be relevant to aircraft operating from airfields susceptible to dusty conditions during periods when this was a problem, typically Normandy temporary landing grounds. As always, check your references for your aircraft, or other aircraft of the same squadron during the same period to see what was likely fitted.

[Curt B]

On 9/22/2022 at 9:10 AM, Dave Swindell said:

The Sabre undernose radiator/oil cooler/intake arrangement didn't change from the Typhoon through to the Tempest V, it consisted of the engine radiator block with a centrally mounted circular oil cooler with the carburetor intake passing through the centre of the oil cooler.

 

When it was realised that dust ingestion was causing engine problems a deflector system was tried, consisting of a dome arrangement in front of the carburetor intake, this reduced the ingestion problem but didn't cure it

 

This was followed by an annular filter unit fitted to the front of the intake tube with a blank metal plate front, this was much more effective, but the filter unit was liable to be blown off forwards through the propeller if the engine backfired during starting.

 

(Not a Typoon/Tempet filter, but it gives the general idea...)

 

To prevent this spring loaded forward opening "cuckoo" doors were fitted in the metal plate front of the filter unit.

 

The dome and filter units were easily removeable add-ons and not specific to aircraft type/mark, more they would be relevant to aircraft operating from airfields susceptible to dusty conditions during periods when this was a problem, typically Normandy temporary landing grounds. As always, check your references for your aircraft, or other aircraft of the same squadron during the same period to see what was likely fitted.

 

Dave,

Thanks a ton for the additional info about the carburetor intake on the Mk. V Tempests.  I gather that the 'cuckoo clock' doors allowed forward (i.e. reverse) opening, in case of engine backfire, while preventing the destruction of the filtration/diversion hardware used to prevent injection of dust/debris into the engine when air flow was 'normal'.  I've seen photos of the 'dome' previously, but yours is the first time I've ever seen anyone explain what the dome was there for.  Also, in case anyone is interested, for the current 1/48 Eduard Tempest Mk. V Series 1 and 2 models, Barracuda Cast makes absolutely fabulous replacement parts for the intake, which, unfortunately, Eduard does not include (that is, the extended air intake tube, surrounded by 4 'fins' with the fins surround by a partial inverted cone piece.  The Modeling News articles from back in about 2020 do a great job of showing builds of both the Series 1 and 2 kits, along with the Barracuda improvements.  Eduard DOES include, in their Series 2 kit, a very nicely detailed photo etch 'cuckoo clock' door assembly, but nothing like the Barracuda items in their Series 1 kit.