Were Swordfish bracing wires painted or natural steel?

[Richard502]

Building "4A" at Taranto.

[Ray_W]

I think the dull metallic recommended by Geoff Coughlin in his "How to Build Tamiya's Fairey Swordfish" and Tamiya's own recommendation of XF-56 "Grey Metallic" are not bad options.

 

 

 

Restored aircraft seem to have something a little shinier.

 

Now, if you're building this, well, anyone's guess 

 

 

I should add, apologies for not answering the question directly. Painted or bare, or clear lacquered and weathered. I've never seen a clear answer. A medium dull metallic colour seemed good for me.

 

Ray

[wellsprop]

Dull metallic is definitely correct

 

 

Painted or natural, I'm afraid I can't help.

 

@Ray_W cracking picture of 4A!

[dogsbody]

Now, these two photos were taken just off the California coast, in 2007. I was flying in a 1931 Travel Air biplane. They do show the colour of the rigging fairly well.

I'm not saying this is what the British had in the 1940's, but it could be close.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[dov]

@Black Knight, you are right. But at the picture above you can also see the cowling! The flat steel of thr wires would be equal like the cowling!

Happy modelling 

[Lee Howard]

Unpainted, bare steel.

[dogsbody]

3 hours ago, dov said:

@Black Knight, you are right. But at the picture above you can also see the cowling! The flat steel of thr wires would be equal like the cowling!

Happy modelling 

 

The exhaust collector is that bare steel look because that engine hasn't been run up, which hasn't heat-stained the collector ring. Also, on some night-flying, Bristor radial powered aircraft had the collector painted with a black paint, to cover the glow of the hot metal. I don't know if that would have been applied to any Swordfish.

 

 

 

Chris

[Phil Evans]

I've no idea where I read it, but I had the impression that British WW1 and inter-war rigging was given a black finish (possibly blue-black).

[JWM]

Here is close up

on which some non uniform colors are seen suggesting paint...

JWM

[Ray_W]

2 hours ago, JWM said:

which some non uniform colors are seen suggesting

I have also been looking at a number of the period images of the Swordfish and possibly those major flat strip cross braces may of received a coat of paint. In particular, those flying diagonals rising from the inboard position. Maybe black or selected camouflage colour, sometimes white. But, and a big but, not all the time. The rest metal. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Ray_W
more info

[Lee Howard]

Landing wires and flying wires. They're not painted. Ask yourself about the practicalities of doing so. They're only around 0.5" - 1" in chord, several feet long and very flexible. The paint wouldn't stick. They were (and are) just bare, dull, steel.

[Ray_W]

The safe bet is dull metal unless you have contrary evidence. Go to the IWM site and go through all the Swordfish images and then watch this and decide. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIf7vLeGa70

 

Ray

[dov]

The Albacore in Yeoville, has as far as I remember the rigging bare flat metall. It was an aircraft for day ops.  About night ops, we can guess. No pic will show you this, since there is shade  anyway.

Happy modelling 

[dogsbody]

On 21/09/2022 at 02:50, Black Knight said:

The flying, landing, & stagger wires on this Tiger Moth are painted and its gets a lot more flying than a Swordfish got

 

 

This is a modern, post-WW2 aircraft restoration/museun piece and has no bearing on a WW2 combat aircraft's colour detail.

 

 

 

Chris

[dogsbody]

18 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

a. this is neither a 'restoration' nor a 'museum piece' but a nearly daily flyer, and it pe-dates WW2 but about 6 years

b. it was used to show that paint on rigging wires does not flake off

 

Is that period paint or something a bit more modern? When was the last time this aircraft was re-painted?

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Don149]

The RAF / RNAS flying / landing wires had a drawn steel centre wire with an alloy aerofoil sheath . The unpainted ones 

were just a dull alloy colour . no doubt a little more shiny on newer aircraft .

[Lee Howard]

14 hours ago, Black Knight said:

a. this is neither a 'restoration' nor a 'museum piece' but a nearly daily flyer, and it pe-dates WW2 but about 6 years

b. it was used to show that paint on rigging wires does not flake off

So that aircraft's paint was applied in 1933 then? Impressive.

 

Tiger Moth wires are incomparable to Swordfish wires. People tend to underestimate the size of a Swordfish. While you might succeed in getting paint to stick to shorter, less flexible wires on a Moth, good luck with trying that on the ones fitted to a fish.

[Vulcanicity]

Looking on on this debate as an interested bystander, I'm surprised bare steel wires didn't rust to the point of unusability incredibly quickly- we're talking about an aircraft sat on a carrier deck for multiple hours a day and battered with salt spray. If they were unpainted was any laquer or protective coating applied so that the ground crews didn't have to change the wires every few flights?

[JWM]

Here the two different colors on cable is even better seen:

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/the-coastal-defence-from-the-air-a-torpedo-being-attached-news-photo/107424722

It looks like a paint cover removed on some areas...

Regards

J-W

 

[Lee Howard]

2 hours ago, JWM said:

Here the two different colors on cable is even better seen:

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/the-coastal-defence-from-the-air-a-torpedo-being-attached-news-photo/107424722

It looks like a paint cover removed on some areas...

Regards

J-W

 

No, it's bare metal that has discoloured/mildly corroded unevenly making it appear patchy.

Think how long it would have taken to paint each of the many wires a Swordfish had. In wartime. When supplies, time and the life expectancy for aircraft (and crew) were all short. Painting wires would, I suggest, be a luxury that could be ill afforded.

[Fukuryu]

I may be mis-remembering, but I think they were 38x14 mm galvanized steel bars with aerofoil section, so dull metal looks reasonable if no evidence of paint is seen. I know that I read it here but I can't find the original post, sorry.

[Peter2]

If they were galvanised as Fukuryu suggests, then they would be less likely to corrode. So they wouldn't need painting so much as bare metal I assume; anyway in the 1930s-40s era, which types of paint would they have applied to cover galvanising?

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Peter2 said:

If they were galvanised as Fukuryu suggests, then they would be less likely to corrode. So they wouldn't need painting so much as bare metal I assume; anyway in the 1930s-40s era, which types of paint would they have applied to cover galvanising?

galvanising is a zinc coating applied to steel, to stop corrosion. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanization

The  Zinc quickly surface quickly oxidises to a light grey.   It does not need painting.   

 

The wires to the left on this image are the colour of galvanised metal

Fairey Swordfish    c1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

 

I'd  also @iang  on this. 

[Ray_W]

On 9/20/2022 at 7:50 PM, Richard502 said:

Building "4A" at Taranto.

 

@Richard502There is also a great build of 4A by @mark.au with a lot of good information if you have not, as yet, happened upon it.

 

 

[Ed Russell]

8 hours ago, Peter2 said:

which types of paint would they have applied to cover galvanising?

None - galvanised metal resists corrosion.

No paint is required but extra resistance is obtained by painting and it is recommended for items meant to have a long life.

All the biplanes I have seen up close have had unpainted rigging.