Fools Paradise IV

[dad's lad]

I've recently started on a sort of nostalgia trip based around my memories of building Airfix kits in the 60's. The basic plan is to build the same subject that Airfix kitted back then but using newer kits and aftermarket decals where possible or original Airfix decals if necessary. On my bench right now is Fools Paradise IV, which the Airfix original paint guide got nowhere near being accurate.

 

Having acquired the Xtradecal set for Fools Paradise IV, I have a few questions:

 

 

This picture clearly shows black bands on the horizontal tail surfaces which Xtradecal have missed, but, as I'm more likely to build my kit without Overlord stripes, here's what I am wondering:

 

a) There appears to be a lighter coloured stripe running across the tail above the serial, would this be evidence of an earlier black stripe that has been removed?

 

b) Whilst the stripes on the upper wing have been overpainted, there is a distinct darker stripe about 3/4 way outboard, is this an earlier black stripe showing through? Looking at pictures of other P-51s, some appear to have the wing ID stripe closer to the fuselage whilst others appear to have them in around the position seen above.

 

c) Am I right to assume that the lighter coloured rudder is merely due to reflection and the difference in material rather than yellow paint?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Clive

 

 

 

[gingerbob]

a) Yes

b) don't know, but it seems too far outboard for the ID black stripe

c) the sun is "full on" that side of the tail, so I'd agree the rudder is cocked slightly, and therefore "brighter". Note that this reasoning ignores the possibility of unit colour, since I'm not sure of the timing of such.  There doesn't seem to be any special unit paint on the nose, however.

 

Edit: No sooner do I say the last thing than I find an old thread where I suggested the opposite: (this gives a hint about the rudder, too)

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by gingerbob

[dad's lad]

1 hour ago, gingerbob said:

a) Yes

b) don't know, but it seems too far outboard for the ID black stripe

c) the sun is "full on" that side of the tail, so I'd agree the rudder is cocked slightly, and therefore "brighter". Note that this reasoning ignores the possibility of unit colour, since I'm not sure of the timing of such.  There doesn't seem to be any special unit paint on the nose, however.

 

Edit: No sooner do I say the last thing than I find an old thread where I suggested the opposite: (this gives a hint about the rudder, too)

 

Thanks for that, I'd already found the thread regarding the nose colour hence not asking. If, as you say, the black wing stripe would have been too far outboard, would there have been one in what can be called the "normal" position such as this?

 

[AWFK10]

I did the same nostalgia build some years ago using the Italeri kit, after coming across that photo.  I think that black stripe is the remains of the outboard one from the Overlord markings. The inmost third of the stripe has been more effectively covered up by the rather perfunctory coat of paint than the bit we're seeing. See this photo.

[dad's lad]

50 minutes ago, AWFK10 said:

I did the same nostalgia build some years ago using the Italeri kit, after coming across that photo.  I think that black stripe is the remains of the outboard one from the Overlord markings. The inmost third of the stripe has been more effectively covered up by the rather perfunctory coat of paint than the bit we're seeing. See this photo.

That is brilliant thank you, I also now have an idea of how far out the Overlord stripes start should I decide to go for full dress or partially covered as per the photo.

 

Clive

[Peter Roberts]

Can I chime in here too please? Planning a nostalgia build for this one as well (plus the Airfix 1/72 Bf 109G-6 JG53 yellow 14)

 

Can anyone say for sure the colour of the name on the nose? I have seen this in both blue and black….

 

And, have the upper wing stripes been overpainted or poorly scrubbed off. Over paint on the upper fuselage in olive drab?

Edited September 17, 2022 by Peter Roberts

[dad's lad]

9 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

Can I chime in here too please? Planning a nostalgia build for this one as well (plus the Airfix 1/72 Bf 109G-6 JG53 yellow 14)

 

Can anyone say for sure the colour of the name on the nose? I have seen this in both blue and black….

 

And, have the upper wing stripes been overpainted or poorly scrubbed off. Over paint on the upper fuselage in olive drab?

Got yellow 14 on my list too but using the Academy kit.

[AWFK10]

20 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

Can I chime in here too please? Planning a nostalgia build for this one as well (plus the Airfix 1/72 Bf 109G-6 JG53 yellow 14)

 

Can anyone say for sure the colour of the name on the nose? I have seen this in both blue and black….

 

And, have the upper wing stripes been overpainted or poorly scrubbed off. Over paint on the upper fuselage in olive drab?

 I do remember reading somewhere that petrol was sometimes used to remove the stripes. In this case, though, I think it's paint because the outermost portion of the flap which would have been white when the stripes were in place doesn't seem to be partially-removed white over the original silver but the same olive drab that I agree has been used on the fuselage.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

According to the book The Ninth Air Force in World War II by Ken C. Rust the color markings generally came in after D-Day.  The 363rd Group had them before its designation as a reconnaissance unit in September 1944. the Group used a black horizontal stripe on the tail plus the following nose band and spinner colours.  380th Squadron code A9, blue, 381st Squadron code B3, yellow, 382nd Squadron code C3, red.  The example from the 382nd Squadron has the anti glare paint as olive drab and the aircraft name in black (44-63811, "Big Mac Junior"). 

 

[amos brierley]

Hi.

 

Here’s my take on the photo.

 

A) Previous markings on the fin have been removed, there’s two parallel lines there, the process of removing them have left a shadow weather their removal was by mechanical process or by chemical. 
 

C) The rudder does look to be off centre, but the Eduard boxing does show that some P-51’s came with doped fabric control surfaces, both the rudder and the L/H aileron are the same colour, and in my opinion are silver paint.

 

B)I would suggest that the black stripe on the L/H flap is / should be the squadron/ group markings, if the horizontal tail surfaces have them then the wings should have them too? The tail markings look to be fresh or well maintained black.

 

D) The wings and fuselage have taken a beating, past maintenance being done in a muddy environment and the take-off run has spread much dust. This dust is prevalent on what appears to be old Olive Drab on the fuselage spine. I’m not convinced that the wings ever had invasion strips on them.

 

E) The prop and fwd nose appears to be fresh black, too dark to be blue.

 

F) In a controversial thinking, the anti glare paint in front of the windscreen is black as it too appears to be somewhat darker than the aft fuselage O/D, but just and only just lighter than the prop colour. This is not the first time I’ve seen occurrence on US aircraft.

 

Hope this helps.     😉

 

[dad's lad]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I think that I have enough to be able to crack on with FPIV.

 

Clive

[Peter Roberts]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:43 AM, dad's lad said:

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I think that I have enough to be able to crack on with FPIV.

 

Clive

 

1/72 by the sounds of it - which kit will you be using Clive? Doing a WIP?

[dad's lad]

8 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

 

1/72 by the sounds of it - which kit will you be using Clive? Doing a WIP?

I'm using the Tamiya kit with the fillet-less tail conversion in resin. I'm afraid that I'm rather glacial in my modelling and not sure that my skills are up to snuff for a WIP.