Spitfire XIV 'What If' project

[Winded Penguin]

I have several more Spitfires due to be built, or on order.....

Not sure if this 'what if' one can be considered part of the recent unofficial Spit XIV group build. Hopefully it can be accepted in.

 

 

I'm starting a build of my current favourite Spit XIV kit (not the most accurate I know) in my favourite Spit colour (a PRU blue shade).

I'm going to leave on cannons and not add any cameras 😏

 

This is a 'what if' build

What if the RAF had a couple of Spitfires dressed up as PRU aircraft to fool the Enemy into engaging in combat?

This ruse would make the opposition more wary of engaging the normal PRU aircraft if they started taking losses falling for the ruse.

It might work? 😄

 

I'm hoping to capture a flavour of the following look

 

Hopefully, I'll get a pleasing result. It'll be nice to have your company and any suggestions for this particular journey 👍

Edited September 16, 2022 by Winded Penguin

[Biggles87]

And why not, the more the merrier I say.

 

John

[bigbadbadge]

Ooooooo yeah, nice.  

Chris

[Work In Progress]

15 hours ago, Winded Penguin said:

any suggestions for this particular journey

 

Interesting premise, and an interesting premise is always the heart of a good WHIF for me. First thing I'd consider is "why did they not actually do this?" to which at least one answer is "fuel". A PR.XIX carries 254 gallons internally, an XIV only 109 gallons, the man difference being that all of the wing leading edge D-box on the XIX is fuel, so a PR.XIX can't have guns and ammo in the wings and still get where it needs to go.  This of course also prohibits an alternative solution to the problem you postulate, which would be running an accompanying XIV escort fighter a mile in trail behind the XIX. 

 

Both the XIV and XIX could and did carry slipper tanks (90 gallons or 170 gallons for the XIX, 90 gallons or smaller I believe for the XIV).

So obviously you can award your hypothetical project a version of the 170 gallon tank if you want, but to accommodate guns and ammo you still need to find some extra fuel capacity from somewhere, ideally at least 130 gallons-worth. Perhaps with additional drop tanks out under the wings, or even some kind of winged trailer-glider configuration to be jettisoned before reaching heavily defended areas. Such things were experimented with, though I can't find any pics at the moment

Edited September 17, 2022 by Work In Progress

[Winded Penguin]

3 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

 

Interesting premise, and an interesting premise is always the heart of a good WHIF for me. First thing I'd consider is "why did they not actually do this?" to which at least one answer is "fuel". A PR.XIX carries 254 gallons internally, an XIV only 109 gallons, the man difference being that all of the wing leading edge D-box on the XIX is fuel, so a PR.XIX can't have guns and ammo in the wings and still get where it needs to go.  This of course also prohibits an alternative solution to the problem you postulate, which would be running an accompanying XIV escort fighter a mile in trail behind the XIX. 

 

Both the XIV and XIX could and did carry slipper tanks (90 gallons or 170 gallons for the XIX, 90 gallons or smaller I believe for the XIV).

So obviously you can award your hypothetical project a version of the 170 gallon tank if you want, but to accommodate guns and ammo you still need to find some extra fuel capacity from somewhere, ideally at least 130 gallons-worth. Perhaps with additional drop tanks out under the wings, or even some kind of winged trailer-glider configuration to be jettisoned before reaching heavily defended areas. Such things were experimented with, though I can't find any pics at the moment

Thanks WIP -  this is a spectacular contribution to the thread, and a great pic provided too.

The implications you've raised could even kill the project stone dead before it's got going, because I don't want anything as ugly as extra tankage on my model 😂 

 

Based on the information about fuel range you've laid out, and my own sense of wanting to create a 'what if' Spitfire that is especially winsome to look at,

I'm going to have to add some additional assumptions to keep this project viable.

 

I will also rule-out flying a mile behind at typical high altitude. 

This would be a 'non-typical' PRU flight pattern, and I'll assume it wouldn't generate the same response as a lone PRU aircraft.

 

So anyway, based on the limitations you've pointed out on fuel range, I'm going to fix a specific date of mid-September 1944 on the tactical use of these aircraft.

The reason I'm doing that, is the allies were already close to the German border of several neighboring countries.

I've therefore now removed any need to have a fuel load to-and-from RAF Benson or wherever other fixed airfields PRU operated in the UK at that time.

The planes in my 'what if' scenario could now operate from designated forward airbases in mainland Europe.

 

For this combat-only role, there also isn't any requirement to get film back to the allied intelligence processing area.

 

I'll also assume there would still be time to reach the signature high altitude flight pattern over enemy territory, as this requirement is absolutely key to spring the trap,

at least where the known enemy air-defence detection arrangements remain operational.

 

I'll need to incorporate a pressurised cockpit for the pilot, so a change of canopy from the Academy kit will be investigated.

Thanks again WIP for the wonderfully thought-provoking information provided.  

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Winded Penguin

[AliGauld]

Ooh I like this idea.

Looking forward to it.

 

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[Winded Penguin]

OK, I'm financially committed to this now 😆

Just placed an order with the big H for this project:

 

Aircraft canopies (vacform)    BCR48096    Supermarine Spitfire PR Mk.XIX PRU
Aircraft canopies (vacform)    RBT48074    Supermarine Spitfire Mk.XIX PRU
Paint, Acrylic 16ml                  XA1008       RAF PRU Blue BS636 (see comments below)
Aircraft decals                        EDD48015   Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IXc stencils  (I'll adapt these as there are virtually no stencils in the Academy kit)  
Aircraft decals                         KW148091  Supermarine Spitfire Mk.XIX PRU  (I'll probably just use the roundels or might try doing my own painted stencils. To be decided)  
Aircraft detailing sets (resin)   QB48194    Supermarine Spitfire Mk.XIV propeller (As I used on the XIV unofficial group build)   
Aircraft exhausts (resin)          QB48541    Supermarine Spitfire Mk. XIV tubular style (As on the photo in my opening piece)

 

I've got 2 different canopy sets on order. I'll use the one that fits best. Or alternatively as back-up in case I damage one while separating the 3 pieces from the co-moulded part.

It occurs to me that the pilot will appreciate a rear view mirror for combat, so I'll probably adapt the one from the kit.

 

I've initially ordered PRU blue paint to test.

I'm really after the lovely tone from the photo in my opening piece, and I may keep the same 'exhibition' gloss or semi-gloss appearance as a slight departure from 'reality'.

If anyone can add any experience or knowledge to how this particular colour can be achieved, I'd be grateful to hear your comments or suggestions.

[Winded Penguin]

And we're off. This time I'm gluing more before painting. Already noticed the parts have a much stronger bond.

 

 

Last time I broke off the delicate pins that attach the seat, and that turned the process into a fiddly nightmare.

This time it was much smoother work. Using left-over Eduard PE belts from the last build.

98% airbrushed paint on this shot

 

As previously, the Academy kit isn't presenting any real assembly challenges, so far 😜...

...which I know for some would be a disincentive to building this kit 😄

 

The wheel wells are pre-moulded on the lower wing, without the simplification being detrimental overall, to my eyes. 

Forgot to mention, this time around, I'm using XF71 for the cockpit and wheel wells just to compare results with XF21 last time around.

Neither seems ideal so will consider alternative brews for future builds. This time around, I even remembered to add in the underwing lights 😉

 

That's it for now. Thanks for looking.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Winded Penguin

[Bertie McBoatface]

Could there be a hypothetical leading edge tank with blast tubes running through it for the guns? Or special high density fuel that gave twice the mileage - a fuel so politically sensitive that it's still on the secret list?

[112 Squadron]

On 16/09/2022 at 22:01, Biggles87 said:

And why not, the more the merrier I say.

 

John

 

In the past decades we have seen the Mk XIXs of the BBMF in numerous paint schemes as Mk XIV. So I can only agree. Why not the other way around.

 

Interestingly, in flight sims such as IL:1946 or Warthunder numerous modders have so far created very accurate Mk XIX skins for air combat use with the MK XIV model.  

Edited September 22, 2022 by 112 Squadron

[Winded Penguin]

3 hours ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

Could there be a hypothetical leading edge tank with blast tubes running through it for the guns? Or special high density fuel that gave twice the mileage - a fuel so politically sensitive that it's still on the secret list?

I think Greg's Airplanes on Youtube should look into the available evidence 🤓

Edited September 22, 2022 by Winded Penguin

[Winded Penguin]

2 hours ago, 112 Squadron said:

 

In the past decades we have seen the Mk XIXs of the BBMF in numerous paint schemes as Mk XIV. So I can only agree. Why not the other way around.

 

Interestingly, in flight sims such as IL:1946 or Warthunder numerous modders have so far created very accurate Mk XIX skins for air combat use with the MK XIV model.  

You're strengthening the initial in-period proposition with post-modern logic here 😉

I'm still awaiting the PRU paint to test out. The final colour scheme needs to imitate the PRU Spit in the image from the opening piece.

That's the challenge I've set myself 😶

Edited September 22, 2022 by Winded Penguin

[Winded Penguin]

Eduard PE belts in place. Almost ready for PRU blue!

 

I inserted a pair of AM Master long cannon barrels left over from the previous 'XIV double wammy' build.

I then used the 'blank' stubs provided in the kit for this build, rather than break open another AM bag. 

The execution was a tad better integrated than I managed on the double wammy build.

 

This Spit will sport a nasty surprise for any unsuspecting German interceptor expecting to meet just another unarmed PRU aircraft

Edited September 22, 2022 by Winded Penguin

[bigbadbadge]

Great progress WP, looking good and looking forward to seeing the PRU blue go on .  

 

Great and quick work 

Chris

[Biggles87]

Rapid progress there, but you have had some practice recently !.

Also looking forward to the blue.

 

John. 🇺🇦

[Winded Penguin]

OK, just had a delivery of Spit parts and PRU blue.

Quick trial handbrush on 3 backgrounds below. Not really close enough to the PRU blue Spit photo in my opening piece

 

Then I saturated the above image to 100% using web tools.

Below is for me an acceptably close result to the Spit photo, if I can replicate it for real. 

 

Based on the second image saturated colour, it's given me the idea to spray a test piece pink to bring out the yellow, then add yellow, then finally PRU blue, and report back to myself.

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Winded Penguin

[AdrianMF]

I am somewhat paradoxically admiring your dedication to producing a perfectly accurate WHIF…

 

Rivet counting aside, it’s looking good!

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Rob G]

That photo that you're using as a reference is wildly inaccurate. It reminds me of some images printed in cheap books in the 80s, those ones that were aimed at 'enthusiasts', but weren't well produced. Look at the bright, glowing greens in the fields and the almost fluorescent red of the roundel. Don't believe everything that you see online, and be very, very suspicious of any colour image reproduced anywhere, print or digital, unless you are absolutely certain of how it's been reproduced at every stage of its life (which you cannot be, unless you took the photo and have a working knowledge of colour management.) 

 

As for the colour of your chosen paint, I've never seen any serious criticism of Xtracrylix PRU Blue. For the record, and I quote from someone who has a better idea of the truth than me, PRU Blue is a deep toned blue-grey with a subtle greenish cast.

[Winded Penguin]

2 hours ago, Rob G said:

That photo that you're using as a reference is wildly inaccurate. It reminds me of some images printed in cheap books in the 80s, those ones that were aimed at 'enthusiasts', but weren't well produced. Look at the bright, glowing greens in the fields and the almost fluorescent red of the roundel. Don't believe everything that you see online, and be very, very suspicious of any colour image reproduced anywhere, print or digital, unless you are absolutely certain of how it's been reproduced at every stage of its life (which you cannot be, unless you took the photo and have a working knowledge of colour management.) 

 

As for the colour of your chosen paint, I've never seen any serious criticism of Xtracrylix PRU Blue. For the record, and I quote from someone who has a better idea of the truth than me, PRU Blue is a deep toned blue-grey with a subtle greenish cast.

Hi Rob, actually I don't see a single thing to disagree with you on. Thank you on taking a moment to add substance to this thread 👍

I'm only going to reiterate, this is very much a WHIF project, where I understand anything goes?

The basic kit isn't an especially accurate shape, so there's no pretense to authenticity.

 

I'm using the WHIF opportunity to have some fun and learn how to achieve any given look I'm after on the way.

I assume no 'unhealthy modelling trends' by other modelers will be kick-started as a result of my thread 🙂

 

In the meantime, I don't want to short-cut my learning curve.  I'm still enjoying the newness and wonderment of a new hobby.

 

Best wishes and happy modelling 🙂

[SafetyDad]

This is a very clever and inventive idea for a What If. 

 

I'm with @Work In Progress with the credibility of the back story (and with you on your opinions about the repulsive slipper tanks - what were they thinking?).

 

I'm sure the USAF would have agreed to supply some P-51 or P-38 drop tanks, given a suitable incentive? 

 

Or your Spitfire could have been air-towed to the mission startline to save fuel (perhaps by one of the Stirling glider tugs left over from D-Day?)

 

Or both?

 

 

Good luck with your build

 

SD

[AdrianMF]

Now he's got to build a Stirling. Doh!

[Winded Penguin]

Progress of sorts on paint.

 

As mentioned, I'm going for a particular 'museum flying specimen' look rather than recreating the PRU blue exactly.

The experiment with pink/yellow/PRU blue below didn't give the result I wanted, so I'm not going to pursue that idea.

 

So now, I'm going with Mr Surfacer 1500 black primer, then XF8 Blue, then Xtracrylix PRU Blue.

I might use a semi gloss varnish as a final coat, tbd

 

 

The bits and bobs pot

 

Thats all for today, thanks for looking in.

[bigbadbadge]

Looks great in the Black paint WP. Looking forward to the blue going on.

Great work 

Chris

[AdrianMF]

1 hour ago, bigbadbadge said:

Looks great in the Black paint WP

It does too.

 

I was going to say “stealthy night intruder PR, brilliant!” but, er, I think I’ll just say nothing and shuffle on…

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Winded Penguin]

After black primer, next step is XF8 Tamiya blue........

 

Hard to think of a more evocative shape, even in a 'weird' pre-shade.

 

After allowing XF8 to dry, I'll try airbrushing panel lines in Xtracrylix PRU blue.

I'll let that dry, then come back with several heavily diluted PRU blue coats until I've filled in the panels just enough to keep the darker pre-shading PRU blue lines visible.

At least that is the plan.

 

So, unfortunately I've now had to ditch the pressurised cockpit idea 😬

The beautiful vac-formed canopies duly arrived from Hannants. They looked perfect in the mold sheets, all with a clear glass effect.

 

However, my 3 attempts to adapt them from the mold sheet ended in failure, 100% due to operator error.

I knew it would be a challenge, but in the end I was nowhere close.

I just wasn't prepared for the degree of skill needed to ensure a convincing fit on this model.

 

Really looking forward to the PRU blue steps.