Lots of Bright Colours and shiness but not in this project - Staghound T17E3

[SleeperService]

My entry will be this beauty

 

Sort of a prototype for a support armoured car in British Recce units with regular Staghounds. Basically an M8HMC turret dropped onto a Staghound hull with no alterations to either. Photos in Hunnicutt's Armored Car show the standard 37mm ammo racks still fitted and the track grousers on the M8 turret are obvious.

I'll be starting with this

 

From the Mountain of Doom I'm not sure what I was planning (Sawn-off Command Car?) but I know where it's going. I'll be adding the tyre chain stowage between the exhausts, 75mm ammo stowage, scratching a turret without track grousers and likely marking it as an in service vehicle. BTW there are profile drawings showing this with the USA registration in yellow. Very unlikely as insignia blue was standard USMC vehicles apart. White was ETO approved only. The Bronco kit is very nice but can be tricky to build, hopefully not this time round.

[Col.]

Glad to see an AFV in our GB and an interesting one(off) at that   Sounds as if you have previous experience with this kit that will stand you well for the project.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Interesting Im not familiar with these. I know about the M8 SPH, and the Water Buffalo tracked APC with these turrets. But never knew they had been used beyond those two vehicles. 

[SleeperService]

6 hours ago, Col. said:

Glad to see an AFV in our GB and an interesting one(off) at that   Sounds as if you have previous experience with this kit that will stand you well for the project.

 

I consider my first attempt as a major factor in my madness. Feeling much more confident now.

1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Interesting Im not familiar with these. I know about the M8 SPH, and the Water Buffalo tracked APC with these turrets. But never knew they had been used beyond those two vehicles. 

I think this defines 'minimum effort' for a prototype, literally an unmodified turret dropped onto an unmodified hull as a proof of concept. Hunnicutt has a couple of pages including a handful of photos, that's it. After thinking I'll be removing the hull mg mount as the 75mm ammo would take up more space than the 37mm.

[SleeperService]

Well Hello There

After going to a meet-up of ex-colleagues I have been able to progress this project after a period of frustration. The issue was getting the M8 turret base to fit as the top photo and still do turretey things like rotate. After much 'adjusting' I raised it with 'Dangerous' (safety tyrant) and 'Scrappy' (never seen using fresh material for a job) two guys from the machine shop where I was their stores-person. After looking at the photos they noted that the turret had an extra spacer underneath it to raise it.

 

 

You can just see the gap of the extra above the hull side. DOH! I've mocked up this comparison to show the difference and remind myself to look properly in future. Suitably informed I had a session or two at the bench...

After carefully cutting out the turret ring it was reattached at an elevated level and the four semi-circles of extra armour raised to match. Those on the kit are almost flush and need raising about two scale inches, note that they were bolted in place from beneath NOT welded. Figuring these would have been built in the US as new vehicles to follow the other variants I have deleted the co-drivers hatch and periscope and flattened the hull mg area. The British conversions simply plugged the mg port. I doubt that Chevrolet would have done that instead of saving time and material.

 

I could then make the turret so had a relaxing time knocking five off (I plan on building other vehicles that need them plus a spare). The hull top and turret are now merely close friends rather than headbangers so all is good. I've also made the axles up which include many tiny parts and thus completed 2 out of 22 construction stages

 

Following @Corsairfoxfouruncle 's comment above I have found the following uses for this turret:

Standard M8 HMC

Above fitted with the 75mm M3 gun from the Sherman AKA M8A1 but this may not be official.

LVT (A) 4

Staghound T17E3 featured here

M8 turret only on Mexican V-150 Commando look-a-like (which would use the spare I suppose)

 

Well That's all Folks! Next episode will feature tiny 75mm guns, many more tiny Bronco parts bonded forever, and possibly some hairloss.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Five Turrets … Wow you're a dedicated builder ! Impressive work none the less and I have learned even more new thing’s. I never knew these were A. made by Chevy and B. made in the U.S. ? 

[SleeperService]

13 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Five Turrets … Wow you're a dedicated builder ! Impressive work none the less and I have learned even more new thing’s. I never knew these were A. made by Chevy and B. made in the U.S. ? 

Thank You. 'Always make a spare' is my golden rule if I don't then something goes wrong 🤣 making five didn't take very long actually and after the first it's quite relaxing work.

Yep Chevrolet built and designed them and, especially for a first AFV did a very good job. Production was ended so they could build GMC 6x6 trucks in an attempt to satisfy military requirements. In a nutshell there's the reason that Germany was doomed to lose and Japan had no chance at all in the long run.

[Col.]

Good to see you back on this one and moving forward

[SleeperService]

On 10/17/2022 at 11:22 PM, Col. said:

Good to see you back on this one and moving forward

Moving backward for tomorrow though. I was wiping down the hull for primer using meths and decided to do the turrets too. Then I got distracted and spotted some spilled paint so used cellulose thinner to clean if off and then some more to wipe the turret shells....

Melted turrets into bin and I'm well into the replacements. By end of play tomorrow I'll be back where I was earlier.

In better news the hull is coming on nicely, I'm now at stage 6!!! In between the turrets I'll be doing the guns and researching the interior details.

[SleeperService]

Hi There!

Finally progress and more intelligence on these kits

This is V4.01 of my turret. The others succumbed to accidental application of acetone, awkward assembly, successful assembly that didn't look right, then this using the set of LVT (A)4 drawings in Hunnicutt's Stuart tome but the late turret NOT the early one. That one is too wide at the base and led to much frustration - as did the kit instructions. See that horizontal tie bar to the extreme right? Bronco would have that mounting into pt D35 mounted on top of C39&40. They lie. D35 is meant to go on the outside face of the front spring mount so that the tie bar mounts into C39 or 40, this happens in stage 2 then becomes apparent in stage 5 when the assembly won't fit without fouling. As the standard M8 HMC had no turret basket I've made up some floor plates to avoid the crew destroying the pipes, cables and controls in this area on the Staghound which does have a turret basket.

 

Staying on stage 5 observe the horizontal linkage directly above the axle pt C51. The part moulded doesn't match the instruction which it should. Easy to fix though - cut the linkage between the rear mount and the start of the bend, flip it 180deg so it bends towards the hull, that's it. Everything will then fit nicely with no clearance issues.

If you look at the turret the brace just visible through the gun mount is matched on the near side and a third brace is fitted at the front. These keep everything nice and aligned while the sides are fitted.

I'm nicking a railway model trick with the painting by using a dark shade of the colour on the underside of the mudguards and hull, and the hull sides behind the wheel. Everything else will be in a toned down coat of the base colour. The idea is to darken where the paint is protected by sunlight, we'll see.

Final fun fact: The 75mm howitzer M2 in this was developed from the 75mm howitzer M1which was a variation on the 75mm Gun M1897 using the same ammunition. The 75mm gun M2 & M3 used in the Lee, Grant, and Sherman tanks was developed the same way using the same ammunition again. The short howitzer barrel meant muzzle flash could be an issue which is why the barrel is completely enclosed by the tubular flash hider.

Thanks for looking, more soon. 

[Col.]

While it seems you're making progress the hard way you're making great progress nonetheless SS; good work

[PeterB]

Interesting build. 

 

I see you mention you are going for an "in service build" - would that be UK or US Army/Marine Corps service? I ask because I wonder what colour it is going to be - USMC Green, US OD, British might have been either SCC2 brown or SCC15 UK OD given it was being tested in December 1943 and in service after that and I believe SCC 15 was introduced fairly early in 1944.

 

Pete

[SleeperService]

23 hours ago, PeterB said:

Interesting build. 

 

I see you mention you are going for an "in service build" - would that be UK or US Army/Marine Corps service? I ask because I wonder what colour it is going to be - USMC Green, US OD, British might have been either SCC2 brown or SCC15 UK OD given it was being tested in December 1943 and in service after that and I believe SCC 15 was introduced fairly early in 1944.

 

Pete

TBH I haven't got that far yet but the idea is that these would follow the Staghound I and II on US production lines hence the minor modification to the front and the OD paint. That cheat also means I can use the M8 HMC as a guide for ammo storage, Bovvie has very little on the Staghound III so internal details are thin on the ground.

 

Thanks for all the interest folks. I'm trying to get round all the other builds but it's not helped by a balky ISP connection.

 

[SleeperService]

Anybody who has lusted after a 1/48 Stuart chassis can Thank me...

 

Ho Hum. While I wait for a release date I'll use my turret to start on the interior details. On the bright side we 48thers have an M3 light chassis to play with. Looks like the styrene is winning on the turret front so I should be back on this build in a couple of days.