galileo1 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Hello everyone, I apologize in advance for bringing up another topic on Spitfire Mk.I seats but I can't find conclusive information here or elsewhere online about this. Which of these two metal seats would you suggest I use for a two-bladed propeller Spitfire Mk.I (referred to as "early")? Padded backrest or just bare backrest? Thank you very much for your assistance. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 As far as I am aware, ALL Spitfire seats had a padded backrest. Happy to be educated if otherwise. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galileo1 Posted September 10, 2022 Author Share Posted September 10, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Peter Roberts said: As far as I am aware, ALL Spitfire seats had a padded backrest. Happy to be educated if otherwise. Thank you very much, Peter! Can you please also shed some light on whether there was armor plating behind the seats on these very early Spitfires? Edited September 10, 2022 by galileo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolls-Royce Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 IIRC, pilot's armor (headrest and behind seat) began being added sometime just before Dunkirk. A two blade prop-equipped machine would almost certainly not have had armor plating behind the seat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 Here is some info on Spitfire seats from pevious threads More on armour Hope these help Cheers SDennis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galileo1 Posted September 10, 2022 Author Share Posted September 10, 2022 7 hours ago, Rolls-Royce said: IIRC, pilot's armor (headrest and behind seat) began being added sometime just before Dunkirk. A two blade prop-equipped machine would almost certainly not have had armor plating behind the seat. Thank you very much for your help! Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galileo1 Posted September 10, 2022 Author Share Posted September 10, 2022 1 hour ago, spitfire said: Here is some info on Spitfire seats from pevious threads More on armour Hope these help Cheers SDennis Excellent! Thank you, Dennis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 18 hours ago, Rolls-Royce said: IIRC, pilot's armor (headrest and behind seat) began being added sometime just before Dunkirk. A two blade prop-equipped machine would almost certainly not have had armor plating behind the seat. Wot ‘e sed 🙃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratch Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 I was under the impression that early Spitfires had red Bakelite seats. Is this a misconception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmcgill Posted September 11, 2022 Share Posted September 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Ratch said: I was under the impression that early Spitfires had red Bakelite seats. Is this a misconception? Yes that is a misconception and the exact opposite of reality. Composite seats weren't introduced into production until the R6### serial numbers. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galileo1 Posted September 11, 2022 Author Share Posted September 11, 2022 Are there any 1/48 aftermarket metal seats for early Spits without those cutouts on the left side and the back (like the first pic above)? All the early seats I’ve been able to find have these cutouts on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted September 11, 2022 Share Posted September 11, 2022 Here's another gem from Edgar: Completely Obsessed Member Members 5,498 posts Posted 23 August 2011 - 10:31 PM 1/. No Spitfire had armour, behind the seat, before June, 1940. Initially, Sholto-Douglas said that, because the Spitfire was the fastest thing in the air, only an unalert pilot would allow anything to get behind him. He, of course, only anticipated fighting against the Me110, and did have the courtesy to change his mind when France fell, and the Me109 became the main protagonist. The armour, on the headrest, began to be fitted in early 1940, and aircraft were converted when time permitted. The first true armour was fitted to the front face of frame 5 (the engine bulkhead,) and this has foxed a lot of people, for years. When the first sets of back armour became available, they were issued in airfield order of priority (Manston first,) not Squadrons, with 11 Group getting first shot, and 12 Group getting what was left. 2/. There were no "plastic" seats fitted before May, 1940, mainly due to fragility problems with the material. Seats were metal, possibly interior grey-green, but black examples have been seen. 3/. Wheel covers were not fitted to service aircraft until April, 1941; initially designed as a counter against snow, they were eventually used against sand and mud. Edgar And never bakelite, which is not what the seats were made off. Cheers Dennis 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galileo1 Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 On 9/11/2022 at 5:10 AM, spitfire said: Here's another gem from Edgar: Completely Obsessed Member Members 5,498 posts Posted 23 August 2011 - 10:31 PM 1/. No Spitfire had armour, behind the seat, before June, 1940. Initially, Sholto-Douglas said that, because the Spitfire was the fastest thing in the air, only an unalert pilot would allow anything to get behind him. He, of course, only anticipated fighting against the Me110, and did have the courtesy to change his mind when France fell, and the Me109 became the main protagonist. The armour, on the headrest, began to be fitted in early 1940, and aircraft were converted when time permitted. The first true armour was fitted to the front face of frame 5 (the engine bulkhead,) and this has foxed a lot of people, for years. When the first sets of back armour became available, they were issued in airfield order of priority (Manston first,) not Squadrons, with 11 Group getting first shot, and 12 Group getting what was left. 2/. There were no "plastic" seats fitted before May, 1940, mainly due to fragility problems with the material. Seats were metal, possibly interior grey-green, but black examples have been seen. 3/. Wheel covers were not fitted to service aircraft until April, 1941; initially designed as a counter against snow, they were eventually used against sand and mud. Edgar And never bakelite, which is not what the seats were made off. Cheers Dennis Excellent info! Thank you again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 If the first armour plates began appearing in May, then this cannot have been as a result of the Battle of France which began on May 10th. Nor do I see how Sholto Douglas fits into the picture. The responsibility lies with the head of Fighter Command, Dowding, who began the process for ordering. manufacture and fitting these pre-war. It just takes time to build up such a programme, particularly given the competing demands for armour plate from the Army and Navy. Presumably this was initiated at much the same time as the armoured glass windscreens - if armoured glass windscreens are good enough for Chiago gangsters, they are good enough for my pilots. (Excuse me if that isn't the exact quote.) PS. The Hurricane Mk.I had a known problem with limited aft c.g. movement. It is not clear to me whether this was a concern before the fitting of the armour plate, but later it did limit for fit of the arrester gear onto Sea Hurricanes, requiring the use of the metal DH prop rather than the lighter Rotol one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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