BP Defiant

[Fishbed]

My daughter brought me this for Christmas (she found the idea of this aircraft being built, let alone used in action amusing.  Yes she did a bit of googling about).

 

I had already done the day fighter version, so went for the night fighter version. Stuck with the kit decals (hence the square swastika kill markings) and went with the aircraft code being "Y" (they give the option of it being "B") and chucked some resin and etch at it.

Used the CMK engine set along with the eduard etch for the cockpit and master barrels for the guns.  The finished model is loosely based round the photo here https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210136.

I used Alclad black primer overall with a few misted patches of darker black to break up the monotone.  I went to the bother of masking the fabric areas on the  flaps and rudder and spraying a lighter shade for the fabric, but you can hardly see the effect.

 

Tim

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[georgeusa]

Very nice build of a poorly planned aircraft.  If there had just been the installation of 2 forward firing machine guns in the wing roots and two less in the turrent, maybe it could have been more successful.  But, you have done wonders with the kit and after-market add-ons.  Thank you for sharing the build.

[Pete in Lincs]

I'll second that. It looks just right and is a world away from the original Airfix 1/72nd one I built many decades ago.

[bryanm]

Excellent result from one of Airfix's best kits.  Nice photography as well!

[Fishbed]

23 hours ago, georgeusa said:

Very nice build of a poorly planned aircraft.  If there had just been the installation of 2 forward firing machine guns in the wing roots and two less in the turrent, maybe it could have been more successful.  But, you have done wonders with the kit and after-market add-ons.  Thank you for sharing the build.

If they had fitted interrupter gear to the guns so they could fire when positioned forward as they are, who knows?

 

Tim

[Troy Smith]

On 07/09/2022 at 16:35, georgeusa said:

Very nice build of a poorly planned aircraft.  If there had just been the installation of 2 forward firing machine guns in the wing roots and two less in the turrent, maybe it could have been more successful. 

The Defiant was based around the idea of the Bristol Fighter from WW1, and on the idea of being a bomber destroyer,   and bombers not being escorted.   

A bit of reading of idea at the time was very much based on "the bomber will always get through"  (see Billy Mitchell in the USA, Trenchard in the RAF and Douhet in Italy for examples)

note the the 1936 film

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_to_Come

"Gigantic flying wing aircraft arrive over Everytown and saturate its population with sleeping gas globes. The Boss orders his meager air force to attack, but the aged fighters inflict no damage."  

 

  and the lack of escort due to the range of single seater fighters....   even when based in France the bf109 was short ranged,  and no-one expected them to be based in France....  

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulton_Paul_Defiant#Origins

Taking two guns out of the turret would not have helped,  and RAF was not into synchronisation gear, or using the 0.5 gun, and cannons were only just having the bugs sorted out...   (see histories of the few cannon armed Spitfires and Hurricane in the BoB) 

 

Note that the Defiant could do the  'Schrage Musik" attack if you wanted.  And the RAF later forgot about this idea with Bomber Command...  

 

Of course, the self defending bomber, and the bomber will always get through  did happen in practice along with various other ideas theories ... as well as plenty of others that hadn't been planned for.... long range escorts (eg Mustang) the effective fighter bomber are a couple ....  etc etc

 

@Fishbed  very neat and tidy build, one thing, RAF prop blades have 4 inch yellow tips as standard, which you might be able to add still? 

 

 

[Tony C]

I like that, a great build!

 

As for the guns, the pilot did have a firing button on his control column and if I remember correctly, I have read somewhere, that if the gunner was wounded, he was meant to rotate the turret to face forward, so that the pilot was able to fire the guns!

 

Whether this was through the propeller or above the arc of the blades, I cannot recall!

[Pete Robin]

Can't add anything to the general discussion.

But I can say, Well Done That Man for producing a superb rendition.

Regards

Pete

[Jeff G]

You did a great job of making all-black very interesting and not so boring, nice work

[Fishbed]

17 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

@Fishbed  very neat and tidy build, one thing, RAF prop blades have 4 inch yellow tips as standard, which you might be able to add still? 

 

 

Ah, now the yellow tips was a point I pondered over for some time.  Agreed that that was the normal way of things. The photo I linked to on the IWM site does not appear to show yellow tips.  I don't think its orthocromic film (which would make the yellow appear black) as the aircraft in the background don't have dark yellow rings on their roundels. A few other photos of the night fighter Defiant's appear to not show the yellow tips, but the quality of the photos is not great.  I'm happy to be proved wrong and could add them.

 

Tim

[Graham Boak]

OK, but ortho film doesn't always show yellow as black, as this seems to depend upon the filter.  However, if the yellow around the roundel is visible then so should be the tips.  Is the red darker than the blue?

[Fishbed]

37 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

OK, but ortho film doesn't always show yellow as black, as this seems to depend upon the filter.  However, if the yellow around the roundel is visible then so should be the tips.  Is the red darker than the blue?

The roundel on the wing has the blue darker than the red.  the gas detection patch is quite light.  Shame they didn't have digital cameras back then :-)

[Selwyn]

really lovely build of A NF Defiant.

 

Just one minor nitpick,  the turret would not be in that position on the ground as its would be impossible for the gunner to get in or out. If I recall the guns were slewed to the right so that the sliding panels  of the turret were accessable for the gunner to get in.

 

Defiant gunner access

 

Selwyn

[Fishbed]

1 hour ago, Selwyn said:

really lovely build of A NF Defiant.

 

Just one minor nitpick,  the turret would not be in that position on the ground as its would be impossible for the gunner to get in or out. If I recall the guns were slewed to the right so that the sliding panels  of the turret were accessable for the gunner to get in.

 

Defiant gunner access

 

Selwyn

Very true Selwyn, but it could be in that position for servicing https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210136

 

Tim

[Troy Smith]

5 hours ago, Fishbed said:

Ah, now the yellow tips was a point I pondered over for some time.  Agreed that that was the normal way of things. The photo I linked to on the IWM site does not appear to show yellow tips.

It was a standard safety marking.   The only time I have seen them gone is on the back of planes in the desert (scoured the paint off, just the back BTW, which is how blade wear works... another detail I picked up on here from a pilot ) so the question is why would there not be yellow tips.

 

 

the reference photo.  I agree ,  no obvious tips, but blades are just the wrong angle to tell.   One interesting detail,  the exhausts look to have had a coat of special  orange lead paint, which was supposed to supress the glow of the stubs. This is why they have odd flat appearance. 

 

I'll @AndyL  as he's the Defiant chap, and he may well enjoy the model as well. 

 

Anyway,  small point. and has made me just notice you have the pitot pennant on as well..  Neat detail, well observed. 

 

cheers

T

 

 

 

 

[georgeusa]

If the pilot could fire the turrent weapons remotely and they were in the forward position as shown, and having first hand knowledge of what happens when a .30 caliber is fired really close to your head, I would expect the pilot to become deaf after a burst or two.  So many things wrong with this design, it is a wonder it was approved along with the Roc.

 

23 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Note that the Defiant could do the  'Schrage Musik" attack if you wanted.  And the RAF later forgot about this idea with Bomber Command...  

 It makes you wonder if this was actually done in practice?  Given the armament of the He 111 and Ju 88 a side attack would seem the least defensible and most advantageous if the Defiant could keep up.  The Do 217 with its own turrent would pose a problem.  I know there seems to be flexibility on how to attack a bomber with a turrent fighter, but doesn't it assume the bombers will not be able to return fire?  It just seems the design was created in a vacuum without any consideration as to what type of defensive armament the enemy would be able to deploy.  But I digress.

 

Tim, your build is just outstanding and I failed to mention how much I appreciated your work on the diorama base for the aircraft.  That did not go unnoticed.  Just high quality work all around.  I am always amazed at people who can paint figures and they look realistic and not like the blobs of melted clay when I attempt such a feat.

[IanC]

What a fantastic model. And a very evocative scene.

 

The only way they could have improved the Defiant would have been to leave the turret and gunner behind, and stick the guns in the wing. Which gives you a Hurricane!

 

As has been said, the aircraft was designed to a completely different philosophy of air combat. Two seat naval fighters were another evolutionary dead end. But hindsight is a wonderful thing...

 

Anyway, a really nice build Tim. 

[Spitfire31]

2 hours ago, georgeusa said:

If the pilot could fire the turrent weapons remotely and they were in the forward position as shown, and having first hand knowledge of what happens when a .30 caliber is fired really close to your head, I would expect the pilot to become deaf after a burst or two. 

Not to mention what would've happened to the prop… 😄

 

Kind regards,

 

Joachim

[Spitfire31]

Your daughter has a very good taste in model kits.

 

Beautiful rendition of said kit!

 

Kind regards,

 

Joachim

[AndyL]

That's a superbly done Defiant showing some lovely workmanship. As some on this site know, the Defiant is pretty much my thing, and I really like that.

 

Defiant engine bays were always a dull silver finish and the kill markings should show two in red, the others in white, denoting the difference between kills at day and night. Des Hughes is the only Defiant pilot I know of to use the Defiant's ability to allow the pilot to fire the turret guns. This he did attacking a He 111 in November 1940 when the turret got jammed by the spent cartridge catch bags and was locked out facing to the beam. The Defiant always had the capacity to fire forward, as long as the air gunner turned the master switch in the turret from gunner to pilot. Then with the guns facing full forward, they had to be elevated to 22 degrees above the horizontal for the lower guns to clear the prop arc. Des Hughes' unpublished memoirs, which I have a copy, confirms the encounter which had him rocking the Defiants wings while at the same time attempting to 'hose' the He111.

When at readiness, the turret was always turned facing to starboard, but even with it in the forward position access could be gained via the panel in the fuselage floor - this was used often by armourers when it came to fitting new ammunition cans and emptying out the spent rounds catch bags. 

And it's nice to see that N1801 is correctly coded as PS-Y not PS-B, as some decal companies have offered. PS-B was actually N3366 and was the regular mount of Ted Thorn and Fred Barker.

One again, lovely work all through.

[Vulcanicity]

Cracking Defiant, you've really made that weathered night scheme look convincing!

[Fishbed]

17 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

One interesting detail,  the exhausts look to have had a coat of special  orange lead paint, which was supposed to supress the glow of the stubs. This is why they have odd flat appearance. 

Thanks for your input Troy, very interesting. Now I’ve looked at that photo many times, and until you pointed it out, I’ve never twigged that  the exhausts look different.  Todays learning experience 🙂. 
 

Tim

[Bertie McBoatface]

That has come out so well. I like the contrast between the monotone camouflage and the interiors.