Calling all rocket experts! And a further question - colours

[RidgeRunner]

Hi all, 

 

While working on my 5" HVARs for my F-84F I have just noticed that those in the photos I have of Italian machines that they are longer than I thought. I planned to use rockets that I have pulled from my F-51D spares. However, the ones I see on the 'streaks appear much longer. Was there a series of lengths? The difference seems to be in the forward section so is that related to the explosives aspect? 

 

Thanks a million!!

 

Martin

 

[Rob de Bie]

If you look in TM 9-1950 'Rockets', all HVARs are created equal, with 52" motors and 16.73" warheads, making 68.6" overall length. My Eduard Brassin 648061 rockets conform closely.

 

 

However, Navy manual OP 1415 'Rocket Assemblies' shows HVARs of different overall lengths: I noted 62", 68", 70", 84" and 85".

 

I decided to believe the former 🙂

 

Rob

 

[Selwyn]

49 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said:

If you look in TM 9-1950 'Rockets', all HVARs are created equal, with 52" motors and 16.73" warheads, making 68.6" overall length. My Eduard Brassin 648061 rockets conform closely.

 

 

However, Navy manual OP 1415 'Rocket Assemblies' shows HVARs of different overall lengths: I noted 62", 68", 70", 84" and 85".

 

I decided to believe the former 🙂

 

Rob

 

It will be different warheads with different sizes, I seem to remember a USN Corsair image with what looked to be a long shaped charge warhead. The warheads just screw into the rocket motor. These things are long lived. When I worked in KSA  in the 1990's we were prepping these, fitting a TDU14 kit which made them into a TDU11 target rocket for Sidewinders to be fired by the Saudi F5E! The 5" Rockets we were using were ancient, with manufacturing dates of 1952/53 and unbelievably unreliable, We discovered that the Saudi's were buying the rockets off the US at $20 each!

 

Selwyn

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks chaps. It sounds much as I suspected - different length warheads. I will dig out one of my images to illustrate what I mean.

 

Martin

[Silverkite]

they are probably Ram rockets for AT role

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_(rocket)

 

Luigi

 

[RidgeRunner]

Many thanks, Luigi. Certainly the fact that there different warheads answers the question. The configuration you have identified isn’t what I have seen, though. I will post an image today in which it is clear that the warhead is the same diameter as the rear section but much longer. 

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

3 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

Many thanks, Luigi. Certainly the fact that there different warheads answers the question. The configuration you have identified isn’t what I have seen, though. I will post an image today in which it is clear that the warhead is the same diameter as the rear section but much longer. 

 

Martin

Here is what I have. Clearly longer warheads. I will contend myself with the fact that the warheads varied and so my shorter ones will be okay

 

Credit: F-84F & RF-84F by Aviation Collectables Company, a book I own.

 

Martin

[Silverkite]

I don't see a stripe, they can be anything, at first I was going to say flash/flare but that's not an RF-84, if Ram were used as temporary measure and/or had problems with shaped charge warhead they probably thought that a tandem warhead (hence the increased length) was better than the previous cone shaped warhead, close I can get are ZUNI MK32 ATAP but that's a different beast

 

Luigi

[Finn]

As mentioned, the warheads added to the length:

 

 

Jari

[Silverkite]

21 hours ago, Finn said:

As mentioned, the warheads added to the length:

 

 

Jari

Yes, the one from your picture it's the RAM which come with a cone shaped charge during Korea cause the normal version had pen problems, they were then replaced probably by the ones from Martin's F-84E(?) picture, the warhead should be a tandem shaped charge for AT role as the front portion it's identical to ZUNI MK32, if I scout around the web and go to italian scale modelling forums I only find generic info and pictures, Large Scale Planes forum had something recalling other rocket variants, everything else it's from stinking War Thunder forums.

Many years ago there it was some sort of online census of present and past AMI airplane inventory, it even had some F-104G picture with napalm canisters and rocket pods, weapon designation was also listed, but that site it's long gone, I don't even remember its web address and even so, if it was hosted through xoomer, supereva, aruba or other outlets finding anything cached it's basically impossible.

I can try asking on Decimomannu Airbase Facebook Group and wait

 

Luigi

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks Luigi. I have now restarted the rockets and have opted to build the longer versions

[Silverkite]

Just now, RidgeRunner said:

Thanks Luigi. I have now restarted the rockets and have opted to build the longer versions

 

I skip one answer

 

On 8/31/2022 at 7:59 PM, Rob de Bie said:

If you look in TM 9-1950 'Rockets', all HVARs are created equal, with 52" motors and 16.73" warheads, making 68.6" overall length. My Eduard Brassin 648061 rockets conform closely.

 

 

However, Navy manual OP 1415 'Rocket Assemblies' shows HVARs of different overall lengths: I noted 62", 68", 70", 84" and 85".

 

I decided to believe the former 🙂

 

Rob

 

 

so I went to check around and found this

 

https://djvu.online/file/oIGPFkWG5KGeF

 

There are no pictures, just drafts with measures, my first guess about smoke/flare was probably right, just check HVAR Mk36 Mod 0 and HVAR Mk32 Mod1

 

Luigi

[Finn]

Here are some more HVAR pics:

 

 

 

 

 

Jari

[Finn]

A few more:

 

 

 

 

Jari

Edited September 2, 2022 by Finn

[RidgeRunner]

This is exactly what I love about BM! Thanks everyone!

 

Martin

[Finn]

Here is another one with a larger warhead:

 

 

Jari

[Junchan]

That looks like a 5" Mk. 32 or Mk.36.

https://rara.jp/image_view/8736afed6724f59b02ac782dac1a837e/1005585599

https://rara.jp/image_view/75ec8200e1e961d6067bac01fdb56cc0/1005585600

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

Edited September 5, 2022 by Junchan

[RidgeRunner]

Having now decided on the configuration of my HVARs I am considering the colours. It seems the fins were always Natural metal and my guess is that the warheads were steel? How about the rocket casing? Grey, but was there a standard?

 

Thanks as always,

 

Martin

[Tailspin Turtle]

Inconsistent: scroll down here for an example:https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2013/09/f2h-2-external-stores.html

[RidgeRunner]

In all the photos above I reckon the rocket propellant "bodies" were mid grey. Would that be correct? The warheads were then OD Green with Nat metal fuses? Nat metal fins?

 

Thanks,

 

Martin

 

[tempestfan]

On 9/3/2022 at 1:08 AM, Finn said:

Here are some more HVAR pics:

 

 

 

Jari

Lovely close-ups of -4B's! I think I should save them... Does anyone do wheels with all that intricate detail? Looks like the maker's name cast into it. And the bird above looks to have a replacement upper (or lower) cowl as the checks don't line up. --- Not intending to hijack this, back to HVARs. A detail I never noticed before is the fusing wire coming from the pylon leading edge. Incredibly sharp pics, the guy who took them really knew his business.

[tempestfan]

4 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

In all the photos above I reckon the rocket propellant "bodies" were mid grey. Would that be correct? The warheads were then OD Green with Nat metal fuses? Nat metal fins?

 

Thanks,

 

Martin

 

In the -4B pics posted by @Finn, the fins look the same colour as the propellant section to me - but AF and Navy (or in this case, likely USMC) may have had a different approach. 

[RidgeRunner]

4 hours ago, tempestfan said:

In the -4B pics posted by @Finn, the fins look the same colour as the propellant section to me - but AF and Navy (or in this case, likely USMC) may have had a different approach. 

Thanks mate but my focus is on those shown in my F-84F image above.