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Danish (R)F-84G Thunderjet camo

Luka

By Luka
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Luka Obsessed Member

Luka

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Hello Britmodellers,

 

As the title says, I have a question about Danish Thunderjets in camo, as I'd like to build one for an upcoming group build.
The only images I managed to find were a few colour profiles and a decal instruction sheet. Not even a single photo.
Does anyone have any reference material on camouflaged F-84s or was this practice limited to just a few odd machines?

Thanks,
Luka

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Luka Obsessed Member

Luka

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20 hours ago, JayBee said:

http://www.tinbox.dk/files/tinbox-1978-1.pdf  (Page 28 - 31)

 

Danish Republic Aircraft (Alf Blume Collection Flickr)

Thanks for these links! it seems indeed that only a few had camo colours; one pic showed only two out of sixteen machines having that scheme.
Cheers,
Luka

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Tomas Enerdal Obsessed Member

Tomas Enerdal

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Gee, many, many thanks!

I have both the Revell kit and Cutting Edge (CED48110) and ModelArt (48/009) decals, planning to do a Danish camouflaged a/c. They've been on the shelf-of-doom waiting for better paint references for many years!

The detailed camouflage pattern drawing in the inbox.dk-link above, corresponds exactly with the Cutting Edge decal instructions. The decal instructions for these doesn't call out colour numbers but they are "illustrated" in what perhaps looks like BS Dark Green/Dark Sea Gray/PRU Blue.

The pattern drawing do call out for danish paint numbers, however. Can someone confirm that the Danish Colors Camouflagegron E.1-57, Camouflagegra E.1-27 and Camouflagebla E.1-47 are about the same?

(It certainly looks like the RF-84F were painted in such colours)

TE

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Phantom726 Established Member

Phantom726

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Luka

Over the years I think I have seen less than a handful of useable color photographs of camouflaged RDAF F-84G's.
I did this one a few years ago using the Tamiya kit. Colour selection is based on my own assumptions looking at photos and asking around. I ended up with the following:
Dark Green: Xtra Color 001
Dark Sea Grey: Xtra Color 004
PRU Blu: DACO Nato PRU Blue

Just an FYI: At some point during the last years of operational service, the DG and DSG colors were reversed in the scheme as is obvious when comparing my model to the picture of a real bird.

Clicking the thumb nails below will take you to postimages.org

 

IMG-3285.jpg

IMG-3286.jpg

IMG-3289.jpg

 

26543057-10156087295517002-903840048-o.j

Edited by Phantom726
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Diego Established Member

Diego

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On 8/28/2022 at 12:39 PM, Luka said:

Thanks for these links! it seems indeed that only a few had camo colours; one pic showed only two out of sixteen machines having that scheme.
Cheers,
Luka

 

Indeed, most RDAF Thunderjet wore the NMF scheme durig their service life, but the camouflaged birds were not so rare as it could appear at the first look.

There were even, as Phantom 726 already said, two camouflage schemes, with interchanged green and grey colors. The colors were "NATO standard", and therefore very similar to RAF paints. 

Regarding the (R)F-84Gs from RDAF photo flight there should be said that KA-C was one of the birds having the camo scheme with interchanged colors, like KP-F on the photo above. 

KA-D - the other option in HDL sheet, was NMF, but had a camouflaged replacepment wing from another machine - also an interesting color combination.

Both aircraft used T-33 Fletcher tanks, one of them housing a camera, a relatively common modification used by several other air forces ( ex. France, Norway, Holland, Yugoslavia...)  before the introduction of the dedicated Thunderflash. 

 

03.jpg01.jpg

02.jpg

HID72047C.jpg

Diego

 

 

Edited by Diego
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Tomas Enerdal Obsessed Member

Tomas Enerdal

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I've heard about NATO-specific shades of Dark Green, Dark Grey and PRU-blue.

I dont know if they are identical, very similar or just similar to the BS colours?

I note, however, that DACO Products issued special NATO-shades of these colours (made by Xtracolor) for their Belgian F-/RF-84 decalsheet. 

(Xtracolor do have a special NATO-green, but no such NATO Dark (Sea) Grey nor NATO PRU Blue)

 

I'm old (wise?) enough to not get too ecited about exact color shades anymore, but the general shades and contrast should not be too much off.

 

It may be the pic of KP-F that is off, but doesn't BS PRU Blue tend to look a little more vivid? 

 

TE

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Luka Obsessed Member

Luka

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Thanks for the extra info @Diego and @Phantom726!
 

4 hours ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

It may be the pic of KP-F that is off, but doesn't BS PRU Blue tend to look a little more vivid? 

I was wondering about the same thing. I already noticed the existence reversed colour scheme, and was also wondering about the Danish colour codes vs NATO colours, wether they'd be (near-)identical. 

As for the PR Fletcher tanks; is it possible that these were just installed as per operational requirements? KP-F seems to have standard tanks, also because the PR Fletcher tank would typically be installed on the port wing. Thing is; it would save me the bother of sourcing some of these tanks, but maybe I'm trying to cut the corners too sharply here😏
Also, were the guns (all or some of them) removed from PR planes, or were they simply taped over? KP-F seems to have the front/upper guns taped over, but the rear/lower ports seem to be closed, can't tell exactly.. 👓

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Diego Established Member

Diego

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On 8/29/2022 at 5:06 PM, Luka said:

Thanks for the extra info @Diego and @Phantom726!
 

I was wondering about the same thing. I already noticed the existence reversed colour scheme, and was also wondering about the Danish colour codes vs NATO colours, wether they'd be (near-)identical. 

As for the PR Fletcher tanks; is it possible that these were just installed as per operational requirements? KP-F seems to have standard tanks, also because the PR Fletcher tank would typically be installed on the port wing. Thing is; it would save me the bother of sourcing some of these tanks, but maybe I'm trying to cut the corners too sharply here😏
Also, were the guns (all or some of them) removed from PR planes, or were they simply taped over? KP-F seems to have the front/upper guns taped over, but the rear/lower ports seem to be closed, can't tell exactly.. 👓

 

Well it's simple - KP-F doesn't belong to the reconaissance flight and is a pretty standard "vanillia" F-84G...

The photo shows an already heavy faded bird, the PRU blue having also a faded look...

 

On Alf Blume photos, you will also see later RF-84F Thunderflashes, wearing exactly the same colors.

BTW, interesting to see that the codes KA-C, KA-D etc. were also later used by RDAF RF-84Fs (In fact, a logical choice) 

 

Re RF-84Gs, the Fletcher tanks were always installed in pairs, as otherwise, flying with two different tip-tanks would cause stability problems. 

The "recce" tank could then be installed either on the left or the right wing ....or on both, if enough were available  ( eg. Yugoslav air force) 

The RF-84Gs had also a small camera window under the fuselage. It would be therefore possible that the guns were simply left without ammo ( removing the guns could again modifiy the centre of gravity ) Surely, they were covered with tape for security reasons...( insects, birds, etc ) 

Edited by Diego
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Tomas Enerdal Obsessed Member

Tomas Enerdal

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The more I consider; KP-F looks like a very interesting candidate for a model! Thanks (Phantom726) to the pic;

-Faded colours, in reversed pattern

-Late airbrake

-PRU Blue legs and wheels

-Silver painted wing tip tank (at least the port one)

-Stenciling detail

 

The silver port wing tip tank don't have a refueling probe. Did other danish ones have them?

 

But again, for those who may have now been tempted by Fletcher T-33 tanks for a RF-84G; are there any aftermarket tanks available? If not, which (1/48) T-33 kit has the best/most accurate ones? 

 

TE  

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Luka Obsessed Member

Luka

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7 hours ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

The silver port wing tip tank don't have a refueling probe. Did other danish ones have them?

When scanning @JayBee's link I found no refueling probes at all on any Danish Thunderjet. Did the RDAF even have any tanker planes at its disposal at that time?

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Diego Established Member

Diego

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On 8/31/2022 at 12:14 PM, Tomas Enerdal said:

The more I consider; KP-F looks like a very interesting candidate for a model! Thanks (Phantom726) to the pic;

-Faded colours, in reversed pattern

-Late airbrake

-PRU Blue legs and wheels

-Silver painted wing tip tank (at least the port one)

-Stenciling detail

 

The silver port wing tip tank don't have a refueling probe. Did other danish ones have them?

 

But again, for those who may have now been tempted by Fletcher T-33 tanks for a RF-84G; are there any aftermarket tanks available? If not, which (1/48) T-33 kit has the best/most accurate ones? 

 

TE  

Re. T-33, the best ( and most expensive ) 1/48 T-33 are the ones from Great Wall Hobbies ( GWH) , but IMHO the Academy ( Hobbycraft ) T-33 tanks are also good.  The older Hobbycraft kits can also be found for few Bucks/Euros .... There is also an aftermarket Fletcher tank with camera window available from Modeldecal in resin, based on the Hobbycraft offering - therefore you can purchase one Hobbycraft T-33 for the tanks as well as two Modeldecal tanks and make 2 RF-84Gs :)

In 1/72 scale Modeldecal has used the Hasegawa offering as pattern for the resin tank.

 

Re refuelling probes, AFAIK only some USAF F-84Gs had this system installed ( mostly birds belonging to SAC units ) 

Edited by Diego
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Phantom726 Established Member

Phantom726

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On 8/31/2022 at 7:45 PM, Luka said:

When scanning @JayBee's link I found no refueling probes at all on any Danish Thunderjet. Did the RDAF even have any tanker planes at its disposal at that time?

 

I don't recall ever seeing pictures of Danish F-84s with refuelling probes. At the time the RDAFs only task was national defence only, which wouldn't really require AAR.

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Tomas Enerdal Obsessed Member

Tomas Enerdal

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Thanks for the great help!

I looked carefully in the Revell kit instructions, even though the kit wingtip tanks do have refueling probes, the instructions tell you to cut them off. Makes sense in view of the info above. Detail&Scale/Kinzey mentions that probes "could be added to the front inboard side of each tip tank.." The doors on the wing for the boom receptacle was mounted on Danish G:s however.

Leaning more and more towards KP-F. It seems like the letters are normal US 45 degree letters, approx 20 inch high. Those I'm getting (Techmod). But getting the colors faded properly will be interesting!

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Tomas Enerdal Obsessed Member

Tomas Enerdal

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Phantom726,

Did you use Stoppel decals on your model? Even though I have national markings and letters already, the stenciling looks very useful They're out of stock at Stoppel unfortunately..

(Edit; found a set at AviationMegastore)

Edited by Tomas Enerdal
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Phantom726 Established Member

Phantom726

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19 hours ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

Phantom726,

Did you use Stoppel decals on your model? Even though I have national markings and letters already, the stenciling looks very useful They're out of stock at Stoppel unfortunately..

(Edit; found a set at AviationMegastore)

 

Tomas
 

Decals are a mix of Stoppel and Tamiya. 

 

Rgds

 

Bjarne 

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Phantom726 Established Member

Phantom726

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56 minutes ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

Is the US serial no. of KP-F above known? They were applied under the danish flag in the fin in 60 mm high numerals.

Tomas

 

According to https://www.milfly.dk/pdf/f84.pdf a total of three different airframes (51-9825, 51-10051 and 51-11167) wore the code KP-F over the years. That's the closest I can get, I'm affraid. 

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Diego Established Member

Diego

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I just found some shots of KA-C on a Danish modelling forum, one of them showing the bird without tip-tanks:

 

F-84GKA-Ceftermavelanding15-08-5502.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/MichaelJensen/F-84GKA-Ceftermavelanding15-08-5502.jpg

 

F-84GKA-Ceftermavelanding15-08-5503.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/MichaelJensen/F-84GKA-Ceftermavelanding15-08-5503.jpg

 

here both KA-C (camouflaged) and KA-D ( with replacement camouflaged right wing) in flight 

F-84GKA-CKA-DogKA-B.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/MichaelJensen/F-84GKA-CKA-DogKA-B.jpg

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