Hawker Typhoon Colours: the 1/24th Kit.

[224 Peter]

I've had this kit since it was released back in 2014, suddenly inspired by reading John Golley's book "The Day of the Typhoon" ( ISBN 0-85059-758-7) I pulled it from the stash and started...

The. book covers 245 Squadron when based at Holmsley South, just of the A35 north of Highcliff and only 25 miles from home, through their arrival at airfield B5 at Le Fresne Camilly just inland from Juno Beach a few days after D Day and onward through France until he was "Tour Expired" and returned home. John survived the war. 

 

First job was to read all I can about the kit and order a copy of the PSL Book. 

The result...confusion over the cockpit colours! Airfix would have the aluminium tubing, main bulkhead and armour painted semi gloss black, but others say aluminium and some favour cockpit green. 

Some say the bubble hood A/C were not the same colours as the earlier car door version.  

 

What is the consensus? I understand Hawker used silver on all the earlier aircraft so that tends to favour silver...

Before I go much further I need to settle this question! 

 

eter

[Mark Harmsworth]

Try this:

 

[brewerjerry]

Hi

     a previous comment by the typhoon expert chris thomas

     cheers

       jerry 

 

 

quote 

 

"  I have never seen colour photos of the Typhoon cockpit, except for photos of Hendon's MN235 and Duxford's displayed cockpit section - both of which are restorations and must be treated with caution as sources.  I have never found documentary evidence of the cockpit colours but, from various sources I have the opinion (not always shared by others) that the instrument panels were black, the seat and tubular structure were silver and initially the cockpit walls and inside of the doors were 'cockpit green'.  In spring 1943 the cockpit walls above the seat level, and the inside of the doors were painted black to reduce reflections when night flying. The tubes remained silver.  This scheme was kept when the sliding bubble canopy was introduced  " 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by brewerjerry

[224 Peter]

Thanks to both: Silver it is, with black details and some cockpit green on the inside of the external skin, I think. 

 

[224 Peter]

Next Question: Napier Sabre engine colour: many photos show black, but some show a mid gloss green, rather like British Racing Green. 

Can anyone discuss this question? 

My feeling is that early 1940s production would have been black, later production, perhaps after the English Electric takeover, green. But I'm often wrong....

 

[spitfire]

Found this thread on the subject, I also have a vague memory of green engines being for display/training, Chris Thomas did contribute to the thread as well.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Troy Smith]

On 25/08/2022 at 14:45, 224 Peter said:

Airfix would have the aluminium tubing, main bulkhead and armour painted semi gloss black, but others say aluminium

I think Airfix had @Chris Thomas  onboard when they did their 1/24th Typhoon, so AFAIK you can trust the colour calls outs on the instructions. 

 

But  this is worth cross posting (I'd forgotten this) 

  

On 22/01/2015 at 11:33, Chris Thomas said:

Thanks for your faith Troy but I don't have a definitive answer for you. However, having seen a number of excavated Sabres, like the one shown in the link below, and bearing in mind the photo evidence which you submitted, I will painting the Sabre in my Airfix Tiffie black.

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?133550-Museum-At-Bayeux

See post 11 on the thread

Chris

 

relevant pics

Typhoon engine. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Hawker Typhoon by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

HTH

[224 Peter]

Again, thanks everyone! 

I think it is safe to assume black is the most probable colour,  possibly Napier Green for VERY early production, but I'm unconvinced. 

 

Napier Green is a recognised colour, I found this reference....

https://www.colorxs.com/color/napier-green

 

Napier Green Color

Color Name:    Napier Green
Hex Color Code:    #2A8000
RGB Color Code:    RGB(42, 128, 0)
CMYK Values *:    67.19%, 0.00%, 100.00%, 49.80%

 

It is a very bright "acid" green. Here it is on a McLaren

 

https://www.alastairbols.com/cars/mclaren-720s-perf-napier-green

 

I do not see it being used on a large aero engine. 

[224 Peter]

Next key Question!

 

Fuel tank colour. 

Assuming the fuel tanks are self sealing, what is the correct colour? 

I've researched the way self sealing tanks are made and it seems that the external surface is probably dull red, dark green, or black. 

They are certainly NOT silver. 

 

The oil tank is probably self sealing, so again, silver is not correct. 

 

Does anyone know  the most probably colour used on Typhoon tanks? 

 

 

As ever, help and comment is really appreciated! 

 

 

[spitfire]

Here you go

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

[224 Peter]

Black rubber seems to be the most probable. So a semi-shiny, slightly metallic, colour should fit the bill. 

 

Thanks Dennis. 

[V Line]

Can't help on the fuel tank I'm afraid.

However, regarding the colour of the Napier Sabre, the exhibit at the RAF Museum Hendon is painted in a bright green which appears similar to the colorxs.com rendition on my screen.

 

https://mechtraveller.com/2019/10/the-fabulous-napier-sabre-aero-engine/

[224 Peter]

Napier Green is a recognised colour, the RAF Museum example is finished in that shade.

 

Color Name:    Napier Green
Hex Color Code:    #2A8000
RGB Color Code:    RGB(42, 128, 0)
CMYK Values *:    67.19%, 0.00%, 100.00%, 49.80%

 

But it seems that most, if not all, Sabers fitted to Typhoons and Tempests were painted black as scarce green pigments were reserved for camouflage paints.

For what it is worth, I once read an article that claimed that if Napier (English Electric) had been able to use Rolls Royce's supercharger technology the engine would have produced 4000bhp from sea level to 25,000 ft. 

It is also worth note that without help from Bristol Aero Engines the Napier sleeve valve system would never have worked. 

 

Despite its pre-war origins the Saber was a "modern" short stroke, high revving engine that was somewhat temperamental, needing to be kept warm before starting, rather like a modern Formula 1 engine!! 

[Troy Smith]

On 30/10/2022 at 18:35, 224 Peter said:

I've researched the way self sealing tanks are made and it seems that the external surface is probably dull red, dark green, or black. 

They are certainly NOT silver. 

 

The oil tank is probably self sealing, so again, silver is not correct. 

 

Does anyone know  the most probably colour used on Typhoon tanks? 

 

EDIT 

 @Chris Thomas emailed me this to post, the Typhoon wing tank at Duxford

 

Typhoon wing tank IWM Duxford by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

 

 

Hurricane tanks are orangey red

 

Hurricane IIc,   1943 by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Hawker Hurricane repairs,c1940 by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

I don't know about Typhoons, but seems a reasonable guess?    @Chris Thomas would be the chap to ask. 

 

EDIT (was having a browser issue) 

  

On 17/08/2019 at 23:26, Chris Thomas said:

However, I do not think this would be the case with self-sealing tanks, and although red (oxide) seems to be prominent on Hurricanes, the surviving Typhoon wing leading edge tank on display at Duxford is black.  Unless anyone can come up with something more conclusive, that would be my choice.

CT

 

Regarding engine colour,  I recall that the green ones are for training,  images of the Typhoon at Hendon when disassembled show a black engine block, which was standard for other  RAF engines.

 

Yu could email the RAF museum about the colour of the fuel tanks?

 

 

[Troy Smith]

On 30/10/2022 at 18:35, 224 Peter said:

Assuming the fuel tanks are self sealing, what is the correct colour? 

I've researched the way self sealing tanks are made and it seems that the external surface is probably dull red, dark green, or black. 

also

https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/90730-hawker-typhoontempest-oilfuel-tanks-help/

 

Tempests

 

the link says also green, as well as red..  

An image hunt for the tank at Duxford didn't turn up anything...

[MDriskill]

On 8/25/2022 at 12:48 PM, brewerjerry said:

 

"I have never seen colour photos of the Typhoon cockpit, except for photos of Hendon's MN235 and Duxford's displayed cockpit section - both of which are restorations and must be treated with caution as sources.  I have never found documentary evidence of the cockpit colours but, from various sources I have the opinion (not always shared by others) that the instrument panels were black, the seat and tubular structure were silver and initially the cockpit walls and inside of the doors were 'cockpit green'.  In spring 1943 the cockpit walls above the seat level, and the inside of the doors were painted black to reduce reflections when night flying. The tubes remained silver.  This scheme was kept when the sliding bubble canopy was introduced  " 

 

Apologies as the thread has moved past cockpit colours, but just to back this up: the recent Wingleader title on early "car door" Typhoons - also authored by Mr. Thomas - has large, clear photos of both early and late aircraft with the starboard cockpit door open. You can clearly see the later one is black, and the earlier one a much lighter shade - almost certainly cockpit green.

 

Super book by the way! https://www.wingleader.co.uk/shop/typhoonwpa16

Edited November 2, 2022 by MDriskill

[tempestfan]

5 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

 

 

Hawker Hurricane r

 

 

 

Where are the wheel masks when you REALLY need them... Great pic!

IIRC I read somewhere that also Luftwaffe self-sealing tanks were reddish (the colour of the unvulcanised rubber used as sealant). The Tempest tanks you posted look very dark, too dark (?) to be this brick orange colour - unless the film type shifted the darkness.