Navy Bird Posted September 2, 2022 Author Share Posted September 2, 2022 5 hours ago, Dana Bell said: - Northrop was the first company to use green zinc chromate as the interior color. The standard practice in the mid-1930s was to apply two coats of primer and one coat of aluminized lacquer to metal interiors. When building the first A-17As, Northrop was directed by Wright Field to apply one coat of zinc chromate primer, then aluminize the second primer coat. The resulting green color seems to have shocked both Northrop and Wright Field. At some point a small amount of black was added to the mixture to tone down the bright green - the resulting shade was known as Yellow-Green in the Army and Navy. It doesn't seem unreasonable that production BT-1s would have used Yellow-Green cockpits. Thanks Dana. It's always great when the expert chimes in! 👍 Your explanation correlates well with my suspicion from watching the Dive Bomber movie. When that close-up with Erroll Flynn came on-screen I literally exclaimed out loud "the cockpit is zinc chromate!" This, of course, after I had already painted it aluminum. Interestingly, Valom have you paint the wheel bays zinc chromate (which I just did last night). I suppose I can repaint the cockpit but I'll have to mask the instrument panel and remove the greeblies that I added to the sidewalls. Not a big problem though... Quick question though - did the A-17 enter production prior to the BT? Cheers, Bill PS. Just found a photo of the cockpit of the A-17 at the USAF Museum. It is zinc chromate. I know the aircraft is a restoration, but the guys and gals at that museum are pretty particular in getting thing right. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 Hi Bill, I'm not sure about the production dates, and I'm still organizing my docs for a book on interior colors, but I seem to recall that A-17s originally used aluminum lacquer cockpits while A-17As got one of the early greens. I did find my B&W BT-1 production cockpit photos, and the aircraft shows the dull tones of a light green. (The stringers, however, look like they might be aluminum!) Cheers, Dana 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 2, 2022 Author Share Posted September 2, 2022 54 minutes ago, Dana Bell said: I'm not sure about the production dates, and I'm still organizing my docs for a book on interior colors, but I seem to recall that A-17s originally used aluminum lacquer cockpits while A-17As got one of the early greens. I did find my B&W BT-1 production cockpit photos, and the aircraft shows the dull tones of a light green. (The stringers, however, look like they might be aluminum!) FWIW, the USAF Museum fact sheet for the A-17A says "One hundred twenty-nine A-17As configured with fully retractable landing gear and a more powerful engine followed between February 1937 and August 1938." I assume those are in-service dates. For the BT-1, Wikipedia (always an accurate source!) says "The U.S. Navy placed an order for 54 BT-1s in 1936 with the aircraft entering service during 1938." Not having the actual production contracts in hand, they look somewhat contemporaneous with the A-17A getting a bit of a head start. Zinc chromate with aluminum stringers? Oh boy...mine might have to be a "what if." Cheers, Bill 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 3, 2022 Author Share Posted September 3, 2022 OK, I've decided to shoot the interior with zinc chromate/interior green. I'm not going to keep the stringers aluminum. Maybe next time. I'll have to work with just one and a half eyes as I got stung on the right lower eyelid by a particularly aggressive little bugger this morning. I disturbed a nest of ground hornets and they weren't happy. They got really nasty when I sprayed them with hornet killer (probably not the smartest thing to do, but who said I was smart?) Anyway, the eyelid is pretty swollen, but not entirely closing my eye. 🐝 Give me my airbrush! I don't need no stinkin' depth perception! Cheers, Bill 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 59 minutes ago, Navy Bird said: OK, I've decided to shoot the interior with zinc chromate/interior green. I'm not going to keep the stringers aluminum. Maybe next time. I'll have to work with just one and a half eyes as I got stung on the right lower eyelid by a particularly aggressive little bugger this morning. I disturbed a nest of ground hornets and they weren't happy. They got really nasty when I sprayed them with hornet killer (probably not the smartest thing to do, but who said I was smart?) Anyway, the eyelid is pretty swollen, but not entirely closing my eye. 🐝 Give me my airbrush! I don't need no stinkin' depth perception! Cheers, Bill That sounds like a major " OH ! " moment. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 3, 2022 Author Share Posted September 3, 2022 1 hour ago, dogsbody said: That sounds like a major " OH ! " moment. Yeah, I've been on a roll lately. I'm allergic to bee venom so I had to break out the EpiPen. Swelling has gone down considerably. I wonder what would have happened if the little bugger had stung my eyeball instead of the eyelid? Never heard of that happening - my eyeball would probably swell up until I looked like some grotesque dude from a Terry Gilliam film. Cockpit interior is now green, but for some reason the top fuselage seam popped for about 1/3 of the spine. No big deal, but unusual. Cheers, Bill 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81-er Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Eek, that sounds rather nasty, Bill! I hope the eye is better soon and you avoid any more run-ins with the hornets James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggsy Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 17 hours ago, 81-er said: avoid any more run-ins with the hornets Except for F/A-18 kits of course! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 Sorry to hear about the bee sting Bill, hope things are better on that front. I was looking at this shot ....... On 9/1/2022 at 12:48 AM, Navy Bird said: ..... and noticed that the wing chevrons on that particular aircraft seemed to be set aft compared to any others I've ever seen. Thus makes them seem to have been cut short at the wing walkway area. I notice the two aircraft ahead also have that as you can't see the chevron's in the shot, which should cut through the dive flaps towards the outer edge. I wondered if that was peculiar to this particular squadron? This one for example (from the movie) has them where I would expect them... Some idle thoughts really! Terry 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 Good eye @Terry1954! I hadn't really noticed that before. I'll have a look through my book and see if I can find any reference to that. I just returned from my four-day jaunt to Washington DC to see Roxy Music and need to get back to the workbench. However, upon return I discovered yet another nest of ground hornets around my lilacs PLUS a nest in my maple tree of bald-faced hornets - and those guys you do not want to go near. Very aggressive, they will swarm you just because. WTF? Why all the hornets all of a sudden? Anyway, I'm waiting for the exterminator now. Cheers, Bill PS. Phil Manzanera rocks. Andy Mackay is God. Paul Thompson was stonking on the skins. The Ferryman's voice is pretty much gone, so he didn't put any songs in the set list that would have challenged him. But that goes with the territory, as Bryan is almost 77. Video display was amazing, and the musicians who filled out the touring band (11 in all including the four Roxy members) really put on a show. Highly recommended. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenCJ Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 I like Phil Manzanera, have a couple of his albums and gladly rescued from the flood and safe upstairs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 On 14/09/2022 at 06:31, StephenCJ said: I like Phil Manzanera, have a couple of his albums and gladly rescued from the flood and safe upstairs. Yeah, for an old guy he sure was shredding some solos. I have quite a lot of his solo releases; I especially like the Sound of Blue stuff. Sonia Bernard has a very interesting voice. ***** So, what else can conspire against me? Oh, right, wifey and I both woke up this morning with flu-like symptoms. We got tested by our doctor and we are positive for Covid-19. It's interesting that our symptoms are a bit different. Hopefully it won't be too bad. I do feel like having a lie-down though. We'll see if I can get some time at the workbench when I get up. Cheers, Bill 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Jeepers Bill, what a time your having of it at the mo’. Hang in there mate! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 On 16/09/2022 at 15:53, Fritag said: Jeepers Bill, what a time your having of it at the mo’. Hang in there mate! Yeah, I like to do all this stuff at the same time - pneumonia, razor stuck in my finger, bee sting on my eye, Roxy concert, stupid virus...think of how long I'd be out of commission if I did it all one at a time? We've both been put on a treatment plan using Paxlovid. Nothing like jumping in with a drug that hasn't actually been through all of its clinical trials. I guess we're guinea pigs. Only thing I'm concerned with is that it can increase your hypertension, and, of course, one of my blood pressure pills interacts with it, so I can't take that one while I go through the treatment. Hope my aortic aneurysm doesn't pop. 😬 Cheers, Bill PS. My grandson Carter told one of his friends from school that I take a lot of pills because I'm old and decrepit. Kid is pretty smart. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81-er Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 I hope you and your wife recovery quickly, Bill, and that the aneurysm stays un-popped! James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Wow Bill thats too bad. I had Covid back in April, and it wasn't too bad (beeing fully vaxed). Yesterday I had my fourth booster, Moderna it would seen, and I've felt crap for the last 24 hours (worse than when i had the virus), but coming good tonight after opening a nice German wine! Hope you feel better soon, we need that BT-1 progressed! Take careT. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 2 hours ago, 81-er said: I hope you and your wife recovery quickly, Bill, and that the aneurysm stays un-popped! Thanks! It has stabilised at 4.5cm over the last few years, and my cardiologist says we'll need to fix it when it gets to 5cm. 2 hours ago, Terry1954 said: I had Covid back in April, and it wasn't too bad (beeing fully vaxed). Yesterday I had my fourth booster, Moderna it would seen, and I've felt crap for the last 24 hours (worse than when i had the virus), but coming good tonight after opening a nice German wine! Yeah, I really feel lousy today. Slight fever, chills, sore joints, etc., just like a typical flu. I've had four jabs of the Pfizer vaccine (the last two being boosters) and I'm eligible for another booster due to my age and immunodeficiency. I gotta teach Carter that word, as it's more impressive than "decrepit." Luckily, the Paxvolid medication was free. I'll start that tomorrow as it interacts with diltiazem which I already took today. OK, time for another lie-down. Cheers, Bill PS. My daughter Tracy brought dinner over - homemade lasagna, fresh baked Tuscan garlic bread, etc. No wine though - I need to have a word with that girl. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenCJ Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Bill you live in the wrong country, no Covid here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Bill, events in your life currently make the Old Testament seem like a series of minor inconveniences - I salute your fortitude in the face of such trials. On 13/09/2022 at 20:22, Navy Bird said: Anyway, I'm waiting for the exterminator now I've never seen such stoicism.... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 May all symptoms pass quickly and may all wasps meet just ends. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 Yeesh, Bill, I'm afraid to go near my BT-1 now! I think I'll stick with my Fine Molds F-4E until I'm certain Northrop's curse doesn't apply to me. Interesting about the early use of the zinc chromate. Best Regards, Jason 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Cookenbacher said: May all symptoms pass quickly and may all wasps meet just ends. +1. 🤞 Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 About the production (or at least "constructor's number") sequence, the XBT-1 comes first, then A-17, A-17A, and A-17AS, THEN the production BT-1s, with another smaller batch of A-17As following. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 18 hours ago, Cookenbacher said: May all symptoms pass quickly and may all wasps meet just ends. +2 Stay safe Bill !! All my thoughts with you... CC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 19, 2022 Author Share Posted September 19, 2022 On 17/09/2022 at 17:37, TheBaron said: I've never seen such stoicism.... Perhaps. Can we combine that with Epicureanism? Then we'd be talking. On 17/09/2022 at 23:02, Cookenbacher said: May all symptoms pass quickly and may all wasps meet just ends. At present, all yellow-jackets and bald-faced hornets are dead or accounted for. Chemicals can be a wonderful thing at times. ☠️ On 18/09/2022 at 00:46, Learstang said: Yeesh, Bill, I'm afraid to go near my BT-1 now! I think I'll stick with my Fine Molds F-4E until I'm certain Northrop's curse doesn't apply to me. Interesting about the early use of the zinc chromate. Northrop's curse? Oh dear, is the BT-1 supposed to be a flying wing? I missed that in the instructions... On 18/09/2022 at 05:06, gingerbob said: About the production (or at least "constructor's number") sequence, the XBT-1 comes first, then A-17, A-17A, and A-17AS, THEN the production BT-1s, with another smaller batch of A-17As following. Good sleuthing! I find all the different Northrop designs of that era hard to follow at times. So, Mr. Village Green Preservation Society lifetime member, have you been shelling out the big bucks for all these remixed and remastered 50th anniversary sets on vinyl? Or does your membership get you a discount? 🎸 ***** Quick update: 1. Finger injury healing remarkably well. Almost to the point where I can no longer point to the evidence of my stupidity. Without the evidence, no one will believe my story. 2. COVID - feeling a bit better today, but the first two days were even worse than my pneumonia a while back. Wow, it was nasty. Joint pain was incredible, headaches were pounding, extreme fatigue, vertigo and chills that wouldn't quit. Oh yeah, hacking up my lungs, forgot about that. I suspect if I hadn't have had four Pfizer jabs it would have been worse, especially with my lousy immune system. Anyway, today seems better but I am afraid to go back to the bench. First, I have to mask the vacuform canopy prior to getting everything ready for paint. I wonder why no one ever made a masking set for this kit? I mean, me and @Learstang would have bought one, right Jason? Second, I keep falling asleep. Seriously. I even dozed off trying to eat lunch today. Aye carumba. Falling asleep whilst airbrushing could lead to some interesting camo schemes however... Maybe tomorrow. Cheers, Bill PS. Another thing I forgot - I had to miss our local club's contest yesterday because of this stupid virus. Arghh. 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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