Choices ... what to build next - Dornier Do18E Flying Boat

[bigbadbadge]

Pre shading looks great Mike, hope you don't nod off whilst recovering 😉

Great work 

Chris 

[RichieW]

I used to spend a lot of time pre shading only to completely obliterate it with final painting. it kept me out of mischief though. 

It's looking very good Mike, a cuppa on the sofa sounds like a well deserved reward.

 

Richie

[davidl]

Mike

On 22 October you posted a picture of some decals/ transfers you made

It looked like you achieved a really good result !

Would you mind posting links to the "How to-s" you used as references ?

Thanks

David

 

[AdrianMF]

I’ve chewed over the colour scheme for this a bit too. There’s the Matchbox scheme, for which I’ve never seen much photographic evidence; the yellow wings scheme, which seems to have some traction because it’s a distinctive feature; and from some photos I get the idea that there must be an overall RLM02 or RLM63 scheme for prototypes?

 

Dunno, which is (partly) why my kit is still sitting in the stash…

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Graham Boak]

From a quick look in Ullman's Luftwaffe Colours, which has a good section on prewar Lufthansa colours including flying boats, the Do 18s had silver underwater areas (I believe treated with lanolin), L40/52 Light grey bodies (and under the wings?) with yellow on the uppersurface of the wings, excluding the centre-section.  Flying controls are suggested as silver.

 

Which of the Matchbox schemes do you doubt?  The wartime 72/73?  There are a fair few photos showing that.

[Michou]

20 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

From a quick look in Ullman's Luftwaffe Colours, which has a good section on prewar Lufthansa colours including flying boats, the Do 18s had silver underwater areas (I believe treated with lanolin), L40/52 Light grey bodies (and under the wings?) with yellow on the uppersurface of the wings, excluding the centre-section.  Flying controls are suggested as silver.

 

 

To which I would add, black for the planing surfaces.  The Do 18s had different engine exhaust systems and the kit has an exhaust on top of the wing.  This could leave a dirty V-shaped area across the wing so it would seem logical that a broad black band would be painted across the the wing root to hide it.  Mike has chosen to model Aeolus with exhausts on the sides of the engine nacelle so the black band on the top of the wing could be quite narrow.  That is my guess.

Mike

[k5054nz]

Lovely work Mike!

  

8 hours ago, Quiet Mike said:

Zac, that Tabloid is getting near the top of the pile, hands off!  ✋

People keep telling me "if you don't ask you don't get" 🤣

Edited November 25, 2022 by k5054nz

[AdrianMF]

39 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Which of the Matchbox schemes do you doubt? 

The civil one, which doesn’t show yellow wings.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Graham Boak]

The Lufthansa instructions and paint list specifically call for the Ikarol Silver for all underwater surfaces, and there is no underwater black listed in their catalogue of paints.  It is slightly odd that the colour profile of the Ha.139 does show black for the planing surfaces, but the description inside the book, quoting a Lufthansa letter concerning the Ha.139, specifically says silver.  Specifically the Ikarol silver, although DKH paints are recommended for the other surfaces.  Ullmann repeats this elsewhere in his chapter on maritime aircraft.

[Quiet Mike]

On 11/25/2022 at 8:55 PM, davidl said:

Mike

On 22 October you posted a picture of some decals/ transfers you made

It looked like you achieved a really good result !

Would you mind posting links to the "How to-s" you used as references ?

Thanks

David

 

 

Thanks David. I'm afraid I haven't got any links to hand, but I can give you a run down.

 

I had to find out what printer we had at work first, and then get the paper specific to that, either inkjet or laser. Ours was an old Ricoh Laser. (Decals Ltd from Wrexham, bought off ebay)

I bought a couple of sheets of white paper, and a couple of clear. I ended up using the clear. (Something I've not found out - how do you print white? I'm guessing it doesn't show on clear transfer paper?)

I'm an illustrator by trade, so artworking what I wanted to be a transfer was easy. I did produce multiples, just because I had the space on the sheet of A4. I didn't want to go down the route of printing half a sheet of transfers. I made a few slightly different scales but this was extravagent on my part, I could easily do a test print and find out exactly what size worked.

I had to make sure the printer was set up to print high quality, and I clicked on the settings for printing on thick photo paper. (Our printer usually prints really low quality on cheap thin paper) I was really careful not to touch the print as it's supposed to be unstable and easily smudged. I also gave it a quick blast with acrylic sealent from hobbycraft just to protect it.

Then I cut out the transfers, put them in warm water exactly like you would a kit transfer, it went on really well, I was pleasantly surprised! They are quite thick though, and I'm not sure if me adding a quick spray of sealent added to that. I'll make sure I trim the Dornier ones to an inch of their life. (make that a thou of an inch)

[Quiet Mike]

On 11/25/2022 at 9:55 PM, Michou said:

To which I would add, black for the planing surfaces.  The Do 18s had different engine exhaust systems and the kit has an exhaust on top of the wing.  This could leave a dirty V-shaped area across the wing so it would seem logical that a broad black band would be painted across the the wing root to hide it.  Mike has chosen to model Aeolus with exhausts on the sides of the engine nacelle so the black band on the top of the wing could be quite narrow.  That is my guess.

Mike

 

On 11/25/2022 at 11:41 PM, Graham Boak said:

The Lufthansa instructions and paint list specifically call for the Ikarol Silver for all underwater surfaces, and there is no underwater black listed in their catalogue of paints.  It is slightly odd that the colour profile of the Ha.139 does show black for the planing surfaces, but the description inside the book, quoting a Lufthansa letter concerning the Ha.139, specifically says silver.  Specifically the Ikarol silver, although DKH paints are recommended for the other surfaces.  Ullmann repeats this elsewhere in his chapter on maritime aircraft.

 

Thank you both. Yes Mike, I'm modelling the version with the earlier engines and the black engine pylon. Also thank you for bringing to my attention the colour of the aerilons, I was going to paint the top surfaces yellow like the wings!

 

@AdrianMF touched on the innacuracies of the Matchbox civil paint scheme, and they have been explained in other build threads on here. Apparently the decals are for a different varient of the Do18, with extended wings for longer ocean crossing flights?

 

I've just found some superb reference images of D-ABYM here on this link, can't believe I've missed them until now?

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/dornier-do18.43224/

 

[Quiet Mike]

On 11/25/2022 at 5:10 PM, RichieW said:

I used to spend a lot of time pre shading only to completely obliterate it with final painting. it kept me out of mischief though. 

It's looking very good Mike, a cuppa on the sofa sounds like a well deserved reward.

 

Richie

 

On 11/25/2022 at 4:52 PM, bigbadbadge said:

Pre shading looks great Mike, hope you don't nod off whilst recovering 😉

Great work 

Chris 

 

After 8 1/2 miles of walking on Friday ... Not a productive evening on the bench!

 

Untitled by Mike, on Flickr

 

Started slapping on some ivory paint though. I had Deck Tan to hand, which I thought looked a good match. I do like the colour, I don't like that it is a Tamiya XF. It looks like I'm dusting the paint on! Also, I bent the needle on my ancient Super63 and it was quite 'splattery'. I've since straightened it out a little, bit it's still not 100%. I'm still hankering after something like a Iwata Eclipse, to see if that has any effect on my skills. (I can't justify the expense right now) Anyway, to cover up the splats I had to put more layers of paint down.

 

Here we are in unforgiving close up after a light coat of varnish, and some very tentative masking tape removal. Not what you want to see, but I was expecting far worse. (There's annoying overspray here too that needs correcting)

 

Think I got off lightly! by Mike, on Flickr

 

The other side was better.

 

This side was better! by Mike, on Flickr

 

So, a few touch ups required, and some more varnish. I'll be masking the engine pylon next and painting that black.

 

And for @bigbadbadge, guess which cylinder has low compression on the Kombi ... 🙄  The 1:1 scale project getting some winter TLC. 

 

Compression testing the kombi by Mike, on Flickr

[bigbadbadge]

Nice job on the Dornier Mike, not surprised you had an easy evening after 8.5 miles!!!

Crikey oh that's a shame, are you doing a winter strip down and top end rebuild???

 

Chris

 

[Quiet Mike]

On 11/28/2022 at 8:22 PM, bigbadbadge said:

Crikey oh that's a shame, are you doing a winter strip down and top end rebuild???

 

Not really a shame Chris, it's been a faithful motor since 2015, and I think this is the first time I've had to pull this motor for a problem. (I think, but in 18 years I've pulled motors in and out of the kombi so many times, I ran out of fingers and toes a while ago.)  I'll probably just pull one side apart and check No3 and 4. If I change the rings on 3 I think I need to re hone the barrel as well? And I'll check the exhaust valves too. When we fitted the lump, it was a massive leap forward from the old 1950s 1192cc 30hp I had! It even reached the giddy heights of 70mph* (Might have been downhill, might have had a tailwind) Now it strains at 60mph on the flat, and waves a white flag at most gradients. In fact I'm more aware of hills in this thing than I am on a pushbike!

 

Have a break. Have a #hayburner by Mike, on Flickr

 

Enough of German engineering, lets get back to German engineering ...

 

Masked the pylon and sprayed some semi gloss black on. Surprisingly went on smoothly, so I've made friends with the ancient Super 63 again.

Engine painted black by Mike, on Flickr

 

Next up are the upper surfaces of the wings. I have XF-3 Yellow to hand, which looks brighter than a highlighter pen. I thought something more like egg yolk would suit, so found the leftover orange from the 2cv build, and just added to that. I think it's going OK. This is the first few coats. (I'll paint the wing roots black afterwards)

 

First coats of egg yolk yellow on the upper surfaces of the wings by Mike, on Flickr

[Quiet Mike]

One more before I turn in. My phone  and desk lighting isn't doing the yellow justice, it's a little more orange. I've decided to leave it slightly patchy. I'll give it a blow over with some varnish tomorrow and see what it looks like with a bit of sheen on it. The flat paint isn't doing it any favours.

 

The paint around the side portholes looks very slap dash, not sure what went on there. Not sure how to fix it either, so probably best to leave it.

 

Checking the colours out together by Mike, on Flickr

[bigbadbadge]

Nice job on the wings, the yellow looks good and looks weathered  slightly, I like it.  

Good luck with the bus, l get Hayburner too, a cracking magazine.   Seeing your bus reminds me I must make a start on my mates bus replica, a 1957 Splitty, will have fun with the rear window!!!

 

Chris

[Quiet Mike]

4 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

Seeing your bus reminds me I must make a start on my mates bus replica, a 1957 Splitty, will have fun with the rear window!!!

 

One of the reasons why I haven't attempted a scale copy of mine Chris, too many differences between early and late models!

[AdrianMF]

Colour scheme is looking good!

 

Regards,

Adrian

[bigbadbadge]

8 hours ago, Quiet Mike said:

 

One of the reasons why I haven't attempted a scale copy of mine Chris, too many differences between early and late models!

Yes although I think the Revell Kits are nice and going to use one as a basis and the van roof as a tin top and have a go at the small lights and back window too, oh and bumpers.  Should be fun!!!

Chris

 

[Quiet Mike]

What a satisfying colour combination ...

 

Wing roots done by Mike, on Flickr

 

Hopefully there won't be too many shenanigans getting them attached to the 'plane.

 

Chores today, in preparation for memsaabs return tomorrow morning, but hopefully I'll be able to drop the Domestic Goddess impersonation this evening and make a little more progress before Lights Out. Something I've neglected is how to do the rigging, so I'll add that to the To Do list.

[Michou]

I have been away from the computer for a week and slow to reply to the posts on November 25.  @Graham Boak, The Do 18's predecessor, the Do Wal, had black anti-fouling finish on the wet areas of the hull (Merick, Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings Vol 1).  There are some photos of the Do 18 which show the bottom of the hull in a very dark colour and I find it hard to believe that this is just shadow.  What is anti-fouling finish - something which can be applied and removed at will, something more permanent like paint, or...?

@Quiet Mike Watch out!  The kit provides two water rudders but Aeolus and other early Do 18s had only one.

Some references, in German, can be found here:
https://docplayer.org/41654471-Dornier-do-18-dichtung-und-wahrheit.html

Mike

[Quiet Mike]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:26 PM, Michou said:

I have been away from the computer for a week and slow to reply to the posts on November 25.  @Graham Boak, The Do 18's predecessor, the Do Wal, had black anti-fouling finish on the wet areas of the hull (Merick, Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings Vol 1).  There are some photos of the Do 18 which show the bottom of the hull in a very dark colour and I find it hard to believe that this is just shadow.  What is anti-fouling finish - something which can be applied and removed at will, something more permanent like paint, or...?

@Quiet Mike Watch out!  The kit provides two water rudders but Aeolus and other early Do 18s had only one.

Some references, in German, can be found here:
https://docplayer.org/41654471-Dornier-do-18-dichtung-und-wahrheit.html

Mike

 

Thanks for this link Mike, I've had a scan through that using google translate, very interesting. Including this!

 

Anyone who consults the existing literature to find out about the information about the course of a development, in the present case the Do 18, will quickly find out that the individual publications offer very different descriptions. It starts with the date. From winter 1933/34 through spring 1934 to 1934, you have a free choice as to when this elegant looking flying boat was born. The various authors only agree on one point: it is always Deutsche Lufthansa that caused, commissioned, ordered or demanded the development of the aircraft, to name just a few of the expressions used. And what is correct about it? In a word: nothing! One can only marvel at the confidence with which all these authors spread fairy tales, which someone once invented, again and again as allegedly certain truth in slightly modified forms. Unfortunately, even the book about German seaplanes that appeared some time ago in a well-known book series is no exception. Unfortunately, this unfortunate statement applies to practically all German aircraft of the time. So why should it be any different with the Do 18?

 

Well, I've tried to be as accurate as possible. I'm lucky that there are some good photos of D-ABYM out there. Also, it is more of a fun quick* build for me.

(Quick by my standards, not yours ... )

 

Getting rather impatient at the weekend I decided to place the transfers on. A mix of the kit ones, which despite being 40 plus years old were fine, and my new D-ABYM Aeolus ones. My ones are very shiny! I'm hoping a coat of varnish will calm them down.

 

Adding the transfers for D-ABYM by Mike, on Flickr

 

Adding the transfers for D-ABYM by Mike, on Flickr

 

The tail transfer came in one piece, but I cut it straight down the middle of the swastika, for obvious reasons. I used microsol and microset, and it seems to have settled nicely. I had a gap at the front join that I just filled in with paint.

 

Adding the transfers for D-ABYM by Mike, on Flickr

 

The massive wing aircraft codes

 

Adding the transfers for D-ABYM by Mike, on Flickr

 

And then I couldn't wait any longer and decided to remove the canopy masks. It's been on there for months. I then remembered that I hadn't applied a varnish coat over the decals yet ... hey ho 😛

 

Adding the transfers for D-ABYM by Mike, on Flickr

 

Current state of play

 

Do18 by Mike, on Flickr

 

 

On 12/1/2022 at 1:59 PM, AdrianMF said:

Colour scheme is looking good!

 

Thanks @AdrianMF can't go wrong with a splash of yellow in the display cabinet!

 

 

 

 

 

[Quiet Mike]

Just spent far too long trying to balance the wings in-situ on top of paint jars, while the hull rocked on it's keel ... inches away, in fact even in my eyeline, on top of the paint booth was my Christmas treat to myself last year, the amazing Vertigo Jig.

😳

Bring in the Vertigo Jig! by Mike, on Flickr

[RichieW]

Looking good Mike, the homemade decals worked out very well. 

 

I have a very similar jig from Ammo, I find it indispensable but I haven't been at the stage where I've needed it for quite some time.

 

Richie

[Quiet Mike]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:20 PM, RichieW said:

Looking good Mike, the homemade decals worked out very well. 

 

I have a very similar jig from Ammo, I find it indispensable but I haven't been at the stage where I've needed it for quite some time.

 

Richie

 

I looked around at what was on offer, and the Vertigo jig ticked the most boxes for me. I chose something I hope will cover most kits I'd like to build, and most scales. I've got several of biplanes in the stash. Pricey, but no regrets at all.

 

Current state of play. The wings are on! In fact everything is on now. And last night I added stretched sprue for the rigging, which was a lot trickier than I thought! I think if I could retrace my steps, I would add the rigging much earlier in the build, but adding the wings and struts was a mission in itself and adding rigging to that mix may be a step too far.

 

Also, as I had that marvelous Matchbox stand, it would be criminal not to use it. I wish I'd decided before I'd closed up the hull, as it would be a lot easier to make the hole for it then! I think I will add the kit transfer to the stand as well, just because it's what the 11 year old me would do.

 

Nearly over the finish line! by Mike, on Flickr

 

I need to add the rigging, but still haven't clicked 'buy' on the Uschi stuff I have in my shopping cart. 30€ just feels a lot for two reels of it! (But I have several biplanes I wan't to build, where it will very useful... )