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The Three Colour Challenge - Khaki Green G3 revisited


ColonelKrypton

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The title of this topic is in reference to basic colour theory - the three primary colours RED, YELLOW, and Blue and how they can be mixed to create whatever colour you would like. Of course, we need to also consider BLACK and WHITE as they have their place as well.

 

There are have been many discussions over the years about colour when it comes to model building. Which colour is correct for xxx between this time and that and so. The discussions can be quite heated and opinions do change over time as new reference material becomes available and old references revisited.

 

This topic is not about which colour,  hue, shade, or tint is correct for any given subject at any given time. Rather it is an attempt at having a discussion about understanding some basic colour theory and how to make your own colours not that the intention is ever replace the wide selection of commercial hobby products to which we have become accustomed. Knowing some basic colour theory however may help the average user in being better able to use what is available off the shelf by tweaking to suit their own needs.

 

A current project of mine will require a basic colour of Khaki Green G3.  There are several off the shelf to choose from - Vallejo, AK Interactive, and Colourcoats all suitable products. It would be a simple job to just select one based on availability and preference for acrylic or enamel but that would be a simple short term solution and I never seem to choose simple solutions whenever there is the possibility to add to my knowledge and provide a longer term solution for my wants. 

 

I do not have a good physical paint chip reference for Khaki Green G3 but @Mike Starmer has published much very good information on British war time vehicle colours including many simple colour mixes. I just happened to have a few old bottles of Tamiya XF colours on hand and have mixed up his recipe which I will use as my reference - 8 part XF-62 Olive Drab 3 parts XF-62 Desert Yellow and 1 part NATO Brown.

 

One of the interesting things about the Tamiya Acrylics is that it is possible to find their safety data sheets (SDS) online in which the pigments used and amounts are given. Interestingly, if you where study the SDS for all of Tamiya's XF range of paints - nearly 70 - there are only primarily three pigments used in addition to titanium white and carbon black. These are called Yellow13, Blue15, and Red170. A few contain Orange34 and only a couple have what is called TIN(II) phthalocyanine ( a very dark purple pigment). 

 

The numbers following the colour refer to their colour index - Yellow13 for example means that this is the 13'th entry in the Yellow colour index http://www.artiscreation.com/yellow.html#.YvKi13bMJPY

 

It is possible using the Tamiya SDS numbers and pigment references to roll my own close matches to the Tamiya colours using Golden Fluid acrylics but it gets more complicating trying to match a mix a several Tamiya paints but that is my current goal. After several iterations I am getting closer but a "best" match so far eludes me.

 

I will leave it at that for now but here are some links to helpful information and online tools if you would like to give this sort of thing a try:

 

https://www.goldenpaints.com/technicalinfo/technicalinfo_mixguide   some good tips and information using Golden acrylics

 

https://www.goldenpaints.com/mixer  and online tool which lets you mix and observe changes using various colours from the Golden lines. Do keep in mind the vagaries of comparing colours online on a web page using a non-colour calibrated monitor.

 

https://munsell.com/about-munsell-color/how-color-notation-works/   were would we be without codification of colour, this one for Munsell. Pantone is another you may have heard of.

 

https://encycolorpedia.com/search?q=khaki+drab   - a colour encyclopedia, how handy but do keep in mind that bit about comparing colours online.

 

http://www.artiscreation.com/Color_index_names.html#.YvKlPXbMJPa    - online colour index again.

 

 

cheers, Graham

  
  

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There are many good publications, for varying level of technical needs:

 

Easy:

 

 

Books:

 

1500 Color Mixing Recipes - https://www.amazon.com/Color-Mixing-Recipes-Acrylic-Watercolor/dp/1600582834

 

Or more technical information, which can be bit pricey but they have wealth of knowledge:

 

"Billmeyer and Saltzman's Principles of Color Technology" - https://www.amazon.com/Billmeyer-Saltzmans-Principles-Color-Technology-dp-1119367220/dp/1119367220

 

 

 

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Another very good resource is our own @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies

 

 

Shows a really good practical example and an simple explanation why the widely-used base color probably was not having much, if any expensive pigments. It may also help you a lot with mixing the G3...

 

With modern pigments, I would try: 17 parts raw sienna,6 parts bone black and maybe 2 parts of phthalo green yellow shade. You can check it on Golden mixer.

 

Or replace phthalo green with green chromium oxide which is probably more historically accurate but it is much weaker pigment so you will need different proportions.

 

 

 

Edited by Casey
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1 hour ago, Casey said:

1500 Color Mixing Recipes

 

I had not stumbled across those books before; I guess I was just not looking in the right place or asking the right question.  

 

I had a look on Amazon for the book and had a look around for some reviews (etc). Looks like it might be useful so I ordered a copy, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Yes indeed, Jamie @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies is a wealth of information. I have lost track of the number of times I have dug through his web site each time learning a bit more.  Unfortunately there is no dealer in Canada for ColurCoats and he won't post from the UK. 

 

Quote

With modern pigments, I would try: 17 parts raw sienna,6 parts bone black and maybe 2 parts of phthalo green yellow shade. 

 

I will give it a try. 

 

cheers, Graham

 

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Time to post some photos of my initial results.

 

This first image is a comparison of @Mike Starmer Tamiya mix for Khaki Green G3 compared to Vallejo 71.330, Ak Interactive RC033, and Mike Starmer's Humbrol mix

 

p?i=964d5633028f1896fb3b7dee4c4311b6

 

I have been using Canson's XL 300gsm water colour paper for my test swatches. The paper has a bit of an off white bias and and was placed on bright white card stock. The photo was taken just after noon local time in the shade. Of, keep in mind all of usual caveats with viewing and comparing colours online on uncalibrated monitors. 

 

next up is a comparison of just Mike Starmer's Tamiya vs Humbrol mix:

 

p?i=c98e5e7551161b68d8d4f3e922908d20

 

To my eye the Humbrol mix is a bit more green than the Tamiya mix.

 

This next one is a comparison of one of my iterations in an attempt to match Mike's Tamiya mix using Golden Fluid acrylics

 

p?i=1dc2e4af9be0c5a516182c1535b454c3

In this iteration I attempted to use ColourCoats online colour swatch of Khaki Green 3 and match online to various mixes using Golden's online mixer tool.  To my eye this looks pretty close but perhaps still a bit on the brown side.  No one said this would be easy ;)

 

The Golden online mixer tool provides both RGB and CMYK values under the numeric tab and I have started to keep track of these values.  Unfortunately trying to match colour chips in one system ( i.e. RGB or CMYK) to others ( i.e. Munsell ) is not always easy. There are online tools which are handy but I am still trying to sort out those that I can trust and those which may be iffy.

 

This next iteration is another attempt to match Mike's Tamiya mix using Golden Fluid acrylics.

 

p?i=3b6468e99f265a6b6b3e6e86bc4eb338

 

Also pretty close but to my eye still a bit too brown and not as close as the first one, looks kind of like a dark pig swill ( that is a reference to some discussions on Service Brown colour ). This was an attempt at simplifying the number of colours in the mix. 

 

And lastly which was an attempt to get something close using DecoArt Crafters craft store acrylic paints - the paint swatch in the lower right corner of the image.

 

p?i=466b1c8370505a08d99f8a6d575bbbcc

 

Surprisingly this one, to my eye at least, is very close.  This was a mix of Deco Art Crafters acrylics Burnt Umber (1.0gram) DecoArt Crafters Sun Yellow ( 0.3gram ), and DecoArt Crafters Hunter Green ( 0.3grams)

 

These are only three of my many iterations at finding a match.

 

To my eye, I would use my first mix of Golden Fluid acrylics as a darker version of Khaki Green G3 and the DecoArt Crafters mix as a bit lighter version.  Keep in mind that after a bit or a lot of weathering, dry brushing, post shading ( or whatever other technique you might apply ) the resulting end colour will be biased away from the base.

 

What do you think?

 

The adventure continues ...

 

cheers, Graham

 

Edited by ColonelKrypton
grammar
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If I had a spectrophotometer data for this color I could do a match... otherwise it is bit hard.

 

Your last result may be because of the finish. Golden fluid has no fillers, you get the paint finish exactly as the pigments are, bone black for example is very matte, and quinacridone magenta is extra glossy. The cheaper paints usually have a lot of filler, and the matte medium is one of them.

 

Also, I wonder what is the validity of equivalence of "BS 381C 223 Middle bronze green" to that color.

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FYI - Original BS381C from 1996 and the recipe

 

Left, the BS381C 223, right: recipe.

 

100x100100x100

 

        Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide: 5
        Bone Black: 1
        Chromium Oxide Green: 1

 

I always thought the color was green because of actually containing chromium oxide, and the lack of this pigment caused the color to be phased off in later years. And this is a quote from @Mike Starmer - https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/tamiya-mix-nobels-khaki-green-no-3-g3-dark-green-t155571-s12493901240.html

 

But the samples you show are much more brown.

 

 

 

Edited by Casey
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Contrary to colour's name of Khaki Green G3 which may lead to thinking it is more of a green, it is more of a brown.

 

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/british-army  in the first couple of couple or rows you will find ColourCoats Deep Bronze Green BS381C 224, Deep Bronze Green BS381C 223, and Khaki Green 3.

 

I trust @Mike Starmer colour details and mix recipes as I do @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies colours hence my selection of Mike's Tamiya mix as my reference for Khaki Green G3.

 

Do you have Mike Starmer's British Vehicle Camoflauge 1939-1945 ?   If not you can find it here:  https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463

 

There are so many variations of colours and when used that I have a hard time keeping track of all the nuances of the subject ;) 

 

cheers, Graham

 

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Sadly I do not have those, so I'm not having much except the recipes. To do an exact match I need a spectral measurements, so I'll make a Tamiya mix myself.

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