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Project #2 : Round Table Class Minesweeper HMS Sir Lancelot (1/96th scratchbuild)


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On 23/09/2023 at 17:42, heloman1 said:

 

On the tray/plattern of the vac-former, mask off the excess holes, ie, those not immediately around the wanted part (master). This allows the plastic to closer form/pull around the master avoiding rounding at the bottom edges. Also if you have a void under the plattern, fill this about 80% with Oasis or similar hard foam, this reduces the amount of air the vacuum has to pull.

 

 Noted! Great tips. 👍

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  • 2 weeks later...

Back to work this week so only a little bit of progress. After the lifeboat i went back to the main superstructure and started picking off some of the multitude of smaller jobs there.

 

IMG_1588

 

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The really fiddly job was adding the steps and handrail. The steps where done using a drilled template to give an even spacing etc. The railings originally were going to be made of 0.2mm copper wire but i was worried about damaging them once fitted so in the end i went for 0.2mm fishing line which won't lose its shape if when i accidentally bump it later. These are done by inserting short lengths of micro brass tube at the end positions and threading the line through running it across small plastic rod struts in between and then back through the tube at the other end. There is a whole mess of glue and knots on the inside which obviously won't be visible. The trickiest part was curving the rail around the front of the superstucture under the wheelhouse. In the end i taped a piece of card curved to shape and that gave the line something to follow. Once the line was glued into place the card was carefully teased out. The only problem with the line is that it seems reluctant to take paint !!

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
4 hours ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

A sharpie type permanent marker will work on fishing line. 

Thanks for the tip. Project is moving along but progress is slow unfortunately. I need to retire so i can get focused !! Busy on the multitude of small bits and pieces that seem to cover the decks at the moment and then the winch and windlass which will be complicated !

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  • 1 month later...

Despite not having posted any progress for a few weeks I have been quite busy building the multitude of boxes, vents and other assorted bits and pieces that seem to cover the deck. None of them are particularly photo genic on their own but in the spirit of a "warts and all" thread i thought i'd post an update since over the last few days i've also jobbed a couple of the larger components:-

 

- wood paneling and ships wheel on the bridge interior (oil paint currently curing so no pics of this). It will probably be invisible once the compass deck is fitted but I'd always know the bridge was empty if i didn't do it !

- lifeboat platform (currently dry fitted with the aid of some blu-tak)

- depth charge racks 

- main mast/jib

- fencing for the main bridge

 

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The depth charge racks were from Shapeways but were actually for triple charges rather than 2 on each side that these ships carried. My cunning plan was to remove the middle section and shorten them to the correct size, what i didn't factor in was just how brittle printed resin is. Even the most careful razor sawing  resulting in multiple cracks and breaks so i ended up with 2 very fiddly jigsaw puzzles so next time i think i'll just add these to the list of items to make from PE.

 

The curved fencing around the bridge will actually be covered in splinter matting. The original plan was to add normal railings and then attach splinter matting to these but i think the chances of doing this without irretrievably bending the railings was very small so the new approach was to use 0.25mm card as the basis for the these, fitting railings to the inside and then matting to the outside. I suspect this will also be very tricky but we'll see ! The plan is to sculpt the matting from Das or the like. I made a wooden template so i could bend the plastic to the correct shape but in the end found that it was easier to roll the card around a dowel to create the curves and then attach this once the shape was reasonably close.

 

Its starting to feel like the build phase is getting close completion, I've still got to deal with the winch/windlass and I'll probably bin the first pass at the gallows and re do those too. There are still also quite a few minor bits to make (shell cases, yet more boxes etc). The only other big job on the build side is designing the PE sheet that i will need for railings, ladders etc. Hopefully i'll deal with this over the xmas break.

 

Anyway hope everyone has a great Xmas/New Year and i'll post another update in early 2024 !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by theskits62
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1 hour ago, Iceman 29 said:

It's a shame, I could have designed the racks and charges to suit your desiratas, I've already made this kind of piece for a friend, not long ago... 

 

That's a very kind offer, thankyou. Next time i get stuck for a part I may ask for your help ! I would like to find the time to do some 3d printing myself but since i haven't retired yet I already spend 8 hours a day behind a PC screen so i think i will wait until i can justify the screen time.....

 

Thanks Again

Brett

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Concerning colour, when I entered a Bing search for Corticene mentioned above, one of the references led me to a serendipitous find, namely Shades of Grey - Naval Historical Society of Australia (navyhistory.au). On that site is discussed the paint used on various RN ships which accompanied the Royal Tour of the Empire in 1901: these colours can be at least hinted at from the paintings done by a skilled artist, Petty Officer Harry Price DSM, who sailed with the Tour. Might be some useful ideas as to shades of paints used by the Royal Navy (and colours applied upon naval ships from Spain, Portugal, Italy and other nations which were encountered en route).

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8 hours ago, Peter2 said:

Concerning colour, when I entered a Bing search for Corticene mentioned above, one of the references led me to a serendipitous find, namely Shades of Grey - Naval Historical Society of Australia (navyhistory.au). On that site is discussed the paint used on various RN ships which accompanied the Royal Tour of the Empire in 1901: these colours can be at least hinted at from the paintings done by a skilled artist, Petty Officer Harry Price DSM, who sailed with the Tour. Might be some useful ideas as to shades of paints used by the Royal Navy (and colours applied upon naval ships from Spain, Portugal, Italy and other nations which were encountered en route).

 

Thanks for the useful link. At the moment the model is mostly just primed and all the parts are just loose fitted so that when i eventually get around to painting (soon hopefully) I can reach all of the nooks and crannies. The ship will be painted almost entirely in NARN20, with NARN23 on the decks/non-slip surfaces and NARN42 on the lower hull. The hull at least has a base coat in place although this will be revisited later to add weathering and to pull the tones back to scale a bit with oil washes and filters. This will be something new to me so i'll be practicing first on an old kit from the attic.

 

This is the look I'll be trying to achieve, worn but not too battered...

 

HMT SIR GERAINT

From photos it looks like Lancelot didn't carry a pennant or boot topping and that the top of the funnel was painted black. 

 

hmt_Sir_Lancelot

 

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Nice progress Brett, beware the dangers of colour discussions, plenty of meat on that bone.  I gave up colour conversations some years ago...  

 

Like Pascal, I've plenty of Depth Charge 3d models if you ever need some help.  Just sent some off to Australia, always happy to assist

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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17 hours ago, Steve D said:

Nice progress Brett, beware the dangers of colour discussions, plenty of meat on that bone.  I gave up colour conversations some years ago...  

Cheers

Steve

Such cynicism in one so very young............... come on Steve - we are Modellers - it's mandatory :lol:

 

@theskits62 - great progress - she looks fab.  don't forget to dab your oils onto some absorbent cardboard before using which sucks the white spirit out and makes the pigments more effective to use

Rob

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6 hours ago, robgizlu said:

Such cynicism in one so very young............... come on Steve - we are Modellers - it's mandatory :lol:

 

@theskits62 - great progress - she looks fab.  don't forget to dab your oils onto some absorbent cardboard before using which sucks the white spirit out and makes the pigments more effective to use

Rob

Thanks for the tip Rob, I'll bear that in mind when i eventually get to the painting stage. I'd love to be able to get the lovely worn look you achieve on your work, presumably you thin the oils before applying ? ALso does it work better on a matt or gloss surface. I have an old airfix HE111 glued up and primed ready to go as my crash test dummy when i get to this stage.

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18 hours ago, theskits62 said:

Thanks for the tip Rob, I'll bear that in mind when i eventually get to the painting stage. I'd love to be able to get the lovely worn look you achieve on your work, presumably you thin the oils before applying ? ALso does it work better on a matt or gloss surface. I have an old airfix HE111 glued up and primed ready to go as my crash test dummy when i get to this stage.

Hi - No don't thin them - just pick some from the tube with a cocktail stick and then dab onto some scrap cardboard.  Then use a thin brush or cocktail streal to apply to the surface - then play around streaking downwards or sideways - sometimes I use a cotton bud to dab.  I generally speaking don't use white spirit unless I want ot remove the oil.  I tend to use them "Dry" in that respect and gently "scrub" in.  Using an off-white colour will tend to "fade" paint - though my go-to fave oil is "Industrial earth" which accounts for 60-70% of use.  Great idea to practice on a model mule but ultimately if you don't like an effect you can lift it.   

 

As to a matt or gloss finish, because I use Sovereign Colourcoat enamels I tend to seal them with a Klear semi-gloss overcoat (so as to prevent the oils lifting the enamel AND because I like the sheen it gives).  Thus most of my weathering is done on a semi-gloss surface.  Using oils on matt will give a slightly different more grainy effect, though most acrylics are quite smooth.  I'd definitely NOT use the oils on a matt varnish finish - weather first then matt-varnish if necessary though the oils themselves leave you with quite a matt finish and it's rare fro me to THEN lay a coat of varnish over the top.

 

Finally they take at least 24 hours to dry thoroughly, so you have at least that time to go back and lift or revise their use - something I often do.  

I think the golden rule of weathering is not to do TOO much at once but instead aim for a "layering" effect.

HTH

Best

Rob

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  • 1 month later...

Its been a few weeks since my last post so i thought i'd update you all with progress. I have been working mainly on the multitude of small fixings that seem to litter almost every spare bit of deck, most of these are small and difficult to photograph but i've included a few of these (mainly the ones that don't require a particle accelerator to actually see !)

 

First on the list are the 4 gallows, it took 4 attempts before i actually got something i was happy with, i just couldn't get them right at all. One of the nice things about scratching is that when you do mess up you just try again, its just plasticard. The least said about the first ones the better, the second lot were just too fat and i completely messed up the shape on the third lot somehow. Anyway I finally got it right yesterday, there are still the bases to do, the block/tackle for the lines and the stays. These don't appear on the MMI plans at all but on the Aberdeen plans they are clearly visible, 4 supports on the fore gallows and 3 on each of the stern ones.

 

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I've also spent some time going over the Aberdeen plans and comparing them with the MMI ones that were my starting point. There are quite a lot of differences and small items that seem to have been missed or omitted for clarity on the MMI plans. 

 

I really should have spent more time doing this earlier on because the biggest shock was seeing that the lifeboat on the Aberdeen plans is shown clearly as a 16 footer whereas on the MMI its 14 and a half. I was tempted to let this slide but there were a couple of other issues with my original lifeboat that were bugging me; the stern was too podgy looking and the height seemed wrong. This latter problem came down to me messing up the measurements from the plan, it looks like i included the height of the keel when sizing the hull, then added the keel separately later so it was effectively included twice. Anyway i used the same approach as before but this time when i made the master for vacforming i used a brass spine this time so i could really cut into the wood when shaping it. 

 

IMG_1731

 

This gave me a much sharper hull when i formed the plastic so in retrospect i'm glad that i spent another weekend on the new lifeboat ! Here it is before adding the seats etc. It was painted using oils (a very thin Vandyke brown wash, followed a few hours later by a slightly thinned mix of Vandyke and ABT245 Sand brown)

DC9BE3E5-C8A2-40D4-95EB-A20A6E53298B

 

I've also now made the platform for the lifeboat (i think this only took 3 attempts)

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In the original lifeboat the grills were made by drilling holes, this time i used a mill to create a proper grill with square holes.

 

I've now also started and mostly completed the windlass which i've been dreading (but not as much as the main winch). There are still a few cogs, wheels and pipes to add but these will come later. Sorry for the terrible picture but it is quite small !

IMG_1733

 

PS - a big thanks to @Iceman 29 for publishing pictures of his windlass CAD work which i have shamelessly plundered !!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by theskits62
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Thiis is really looking nice, you are doing a splendid job, I can really appreciate the time that is going into this, but its worth it when it starts to come together, lovely work !!

 

Cheers

 

David

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Having made many ships boats in the past, I can really appreciate the work that goes into creating this level of detail, well done sir...:clap:

 

I also use ply/balsa bucks, but I then use tissue paper and glue not plastic to build us the shell.  You should try it, lots of fun.. I'm always espousing papier-mache as a building material, so flexible, great for making complex shells and remarkably strong

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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10 minutes ago, Steve D said:

I also use ply/balsa bucks, but I then use tissue paper and glue not plastic to build us the shell.

Thanks Steve - That sounds like it could be something to try, what sort of glue do you use with the tissue ? Must admit that making the lifeboat was great fun so i wasn't really that upset when i realised the first one wasn't right !

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1 minute ago, theskits62 said:

what sort of glue do you use with the tissue ?

Dilute PVA, consistency of paint.  Seal the buck with sanding sealer and use spray wax as a release agent.  I'll be covering this in detail later in the Havock thread, I have two boats to make

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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  • 3 weeks later...

A bit more progress on the gallows and the windlass. The latter is waiting for a few pipes and some PE control wheels which will be added later. The next job will be the main winch which i can't put off for much longer !

 

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As you can see i've only just discovered that i can zoom in when i take a picture on my phone !

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