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Royal Navy Phantom


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I dont think so.  The F4-J was never used by the RN FAA

 

The FAA used the FGR1 which, while still a phantom, is a whole different bird altogether.  Rear end shape different to accommodate the Spey engines, Much bigger air intakes again for the engines and then some detail differences.  You should look at some of the amazing work done on here to convert the Tamiya 1/32 F4-J into a UK FGR1/2

 

A big conversion methinks

 

 

PS - you can use an F4-J to do an RAF one as when we were running short of Phantoms we acquired several J versions ex USN and 74 Sqn flew them as a stop gap

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In a word. NO. 

The Royal Navy Phantoms were Spey engined and are a totally different version  to other Phantoms. The only kit available in 1/48 is the Hasegawa FGR 1. If you can  find one at normal money.

 

Dick 

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Unfortunately not, the Royal Navy only used the F-4K variant (Phantom FG.1 in British terminology). This was based on the F-4J but had the addition of British Rolls Royce Spey turbofan engines instead of the GE J-79 turbojet of the regular Phantom, this gave the British Phantoms a slightly chubbier look around the engine exhausts, they also had slightly larger intakes to allow greater airflow into the engines.

 

It's a major conversion, in short if you want a RN Phantom get the Hasegawa kit.

 

The RAF did get a squadron (74 Squadron) of F-4J's to fill the shortfall in air defence squadrons created by the need to provide air defence for the Falkland Islands after the war, these were only ever painted in the ADF grey scheme (initially using US equivalent colours and the they were then repainted in proper RAF colours during complex overhaul periods).

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55 minutes ago, Daedalus72 said:

If it helps, the Hasegawa FGR2 was fairly recently reissued by Revell so should be easy to find, and cheaper too!

There are differences with the elevators. FGR1 RN.   FGR2 RAF 

 

Dick

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Hello Giampiero,

 

just as others have already said: look for the Hasegawa FG.1 kit or the Revell re-boxing which might be labeled as FGR.2 as well. The plastic is for the RN FG.1 with additional stabilizers, blanking plates for the bridle hook recesses and and another nose landing gear for the FGR.2.

 

The kit isn't very accurate but it is the only one on the market.

 

It builds into a nice model even if you decide not to fix the inaccuracies. Here's my Hasegawa FG.1(one of those with dual flight controls; included in the kit as well):

 

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Cheers,

Antti

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11 hours ago, Antti_K said:

Hello Giampiero,

 

just as others have already said: look for the Hasegawa FG.1 kit or the Revell re-boxing which might be labeled as FGR.2 as well. The plastic is for the RN FG.1 with additional stabilizers, blanking plates for the bridle hook recesses and and another nose landing gear for the FGR.2.

 

The kit isn't very accurate but it is the only one on the market.

 

It builds into a nice model even if you decide not to fix the inaccuracies. Here's my Hasegawa FG.1(one of those with dual flight controls; included in the kit as well):

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

Cheers,

Antti

Hi Antti,

 

What accuracy issues does the kit have? I know the cockpit needs work, the kit lacks intakes, the main gear struts need additional details, and the fuselage panel lines seem to be a mix of FG.1 and FGR.2. 

 

Also, Hypersonic makes accurate replacement stabilators for Hasegawa F-4s. He also sells a very nice resin and photo etched canopy detail set that I think is a must-have for any Hasegawa, Academy, or Z-M F-4 kit.

 

Ben

 

 

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The RN type is not in itself "longer" I think but extendable to increase AoA on launch, and extended usually only on the catapult. The RN type has a second pair of scissor links for that extending section, so if you add this to the FGR.2 type, you should be close - unless you want it in launch position.

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Perhaps a UK thing but weren't all the other Phantom variants merely an interesting sideline to the FG.1 and FGR.2?

 

The differences between the UK Phantom variants themselves and between them and the F-4 line in general seems to be a recurring topic on the forum and by coincidence I came across an advert for this just released ebook yesterday - Building the British Phantoms Volume 1 by Geoff Coughlin and published by KLP Publishing , Volume 2 will follow concentrating on the FGR.2.

 

PDF with 366 pages  -   https://www.klp.com.au/product/building-the-british-phantoms-volume-one/  -   between half/two thirds on FG.1 modelling projects and the remainder with full-size aircraft imagery and background history  including a table of FG.1/FGR.2 detail differences , cost is $AUS 20 which last night equated to £12.06 so excellent value for money to have a wealth of information at one's fingertips.

 

Sadly , doesn't however answer a question I recall on a photographic forum many years ago - "I have an F-4E kit and wondered which RAF squadrons operated it?"  -  but with no mention of whether long/short gun nose , whether UK/RAFG based obviously impossible to answer.

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8 minutes ago, Des said:

 

 

Sadly , doesn't however answer a question I recall on a photographic forum many years ago - "I have an F-4E kit and wondered which RAF squadrons operated it?"  -  but with no mention of whether long/short gun nose , whether UK/RAFG based obviously impossible to answer.

Well as the F-4E had a slotted stab, then it was obviously RN not RAF. Easy really. 😉

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On 8/10/2022 at 12:15 PM, Ben Brown said:

Hi Antti,

 

What accuracy issues does the kit have? I know the cockpit needs work, the kit lacks intakes, the main gear struts need additional details, and the fuselage panel lines seem to be a mix of FG.1 and FGR.2. 

 

Also, Hypersonic makes accurate replacement stabilators for Hasegawa F-4s. He also sells a very nice resin and photo etched canopy detail set that I think is a must-have for any Hasegawa, Academy, or Z-M F-4 kit.

 

Ben

 

 

Hello Ben,

 

The nose and front fuselage are accurate (one can even say, it's very accurate) up to FS 249,65. I compared the kit against the data given in F-4K Crew Chief Manual some AP drawings.

 

The problem lies in the center fuselage. Here's my approach: Airfix did a LIDAR scan for their recent 1:72 scale kit. That of course created a great amount of 3D data that was then used for engineering the kit. Then they had to produce some drawings like decals placement guide. Most likely the same data was used. There is no sense in drawing a complete set of three views starting from scratch, if one already posses all that 3D data running in a suitable designing program. So I scaled the drawing up to 1:48 scale with my photocopier. Then I downloaded F-4K Cross Section drawing (copy of the original factory drawing) from Tommy Thomasson's web site (Tailhook Topics) and scaled it also up to 1/48 scale. The cross sections were perfect matches with Airfix stencil placement drawing. Finally I started to check the measurements from my new FG.1 drawing against those taken from a real aircraft. And again, a perfect match. At last it was time to start to check the model.

 

spacer.png

 

Be careful with the Plane Captain's Manual though; not all given measurements are for the British Phantom but for an F-4B or -J!

 

In plan view the Hasegawa FG.1 center fuselage is some 4 millimeters too narrow (I don't have my drawings and notes at hand).

 

Another problem are the air intakes. There is a couple of millimeters missing from the intake mouth (the funnel is too short). I believe this is due worn moulds and/or low pressure during manufacture. When you look at the model from the side (look at my model) the curvature of the air intake funnels is wrong; it's very good for an F-4B or F-4J but not for British Phantoms. The highest point should be behind the cockpit. Look at the photos below.

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

Another problem are the intake "mouths". Here are the correct measurements taken from the real thing:

spacer.png

The intakes are slightly wider than those of F-4Bs and Js, and not just that tall. Quite many modellers say that British Phantoms had "some 20 %" wider engine intakes. They are both right and wrong at the same time. The intake funnel (inside the plane) is wider to handle a greater amount of supersonic air, but the intake mouth is roughly the same size as in US versions.

 

Some further measurements from the real thing:

spacer.png

 

And the "Splitter Plates". They are slightly different in size and shape than those used in F-4Bs and Js.

spacer.png

 

Things get better towards to rear fuselage. I haven't checked these measurements against the kit yet.

spacer.png

 

I did a stupid mistake with my FG.1 by replacing the kit's re-heaters with resin items. Their shape isn't good and they are too wide. So use the kit parts.

 

I didn't go all the way as I didn't feel like building the whole center fuselage from scratch. At least at that point. Hopefully someone will produce an accurate British Phantom in 1/48 scale in the near future. I guess it would sell well...

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

Antti

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12 hours ago, Antti_K said:

Hello Ben,

 

The nose and front fuselage are accurate (one can even say, it's very accurate) up to FS 249,65. I compared the kit against the data given in F-4K Crew Chief Manual some AP drawings.

 

The problem lies in the center fuselage. Here's my approach: Airfix did a LIDAR scan for their recent 1:72 scale kit. That of course created a great amount of 3D data that was then used for engineering the kit. Then they had to produce some drawings like decals placement guide. Most likely the same data was used. There is no sense in drawing a complete set of three views starting from scratch, if one already posses all that 3D data running in a suitable designing program. So I scaled the drawing up to 1:48 scale with my photocopier. Then I downloaded F-4K Cross Section drawing (copy of the original factory drawing) from Tommy Thomasson's web site (Tailhook Topics) and scaled it also up to 1/48 scale. The cross sections were perfect matches with Airfix stencil placement drawing. Finally I started to check the measurements from my new FG.1 drawing against those taken from a real aircraft. And again, a perfect match. At last it was time to start to check the model.

 

spacer.png

 

Be careful with the Plane Captain's Manual though; not all given measurements are for the British Phantom but for an F-4B or -J!

 

In plan view the Hasegawa FG.1 center fuselage is some 4 millimeters too narrow (I don't have my drawings and notes at hand).

 

Another problem are the air intakes. There is a couple of millimeters missing from the intake mouth (the funnel is too short). I believe this is due worn moulds and/or low pressure during manufacture. When you look at the model from the side (look at my model) the curvature of the air intake funnels is wrong; it's very good for an F-4B or F-4J but not for British Phantoms. The highest point should be behind the cockpit. Look at the photos below.

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

Another problem are the intake "mouths". Here are the correct measurements taken from the real thing:

spacer.png

The intakes are slightly wider than those of F-4Bs and Js, and not just that tall. Quite many modellers say that British Phantoms had "some 20 %" wider engine intakes. They are both right and wrong at the same time. The intake funnel (inside the plane) is wider to handle a greater amount of supersonic air, but the intake mouth is roughly the same size as in US versions.

 

Some further measurements from the real thing:

spacer.png

 

And the "Splitter Plates". They are slightly different in size and shape than those used in F-4Bs and Js.

spacer.png

 

Things get better towards to rear fuselage. I haven't checked these measurements against the kit yet.

spacer.png

 

I did a stupid mistake with my FG.1 by replacing the kit's re-heaters with resin items. Their shape isn't good and they are too wide. So use the kit parts.

 

I didn't go all the way as I didn't feel like building the whole center fuselage from scratch. At least at that point. Hopefully someone will produce an accurate British Phantom in 1/48 scale in the near future. I guess it would sell well...

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

Antti

This post would be better with pictures..😉

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Thanks for the "Heads Up" guys. It seems there is something wrong with my Villagephotos account as some people can see the pictures and some don't. Do I need to start all over again with a new service provider?

 

Cheers,

Antti

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