Very quick question: should I buy an Airmodel P6M Seamaster vacuform kit ?

[Giorgio N]

Asking for help from the Britmodeller collective here... just saw an old P6M Airmodel kit on sale for what is a good price and now I'm tempted...

However I'm also trying to keep my feet to the ground, reason why I should probably consider the pros and cons

Pros:

- it's a 1/72 Seamaster, a subject that I always found very interesting

- price is pretty good

- it would make for a pretty impressive model

- it's a subject with relatively few external details, so it would need less work compared to comparable kits of other subjects.. I mean, there's not even a landing gear to worry about

- while there are other P6M kits on the market (Mach 2 and Anigrand), they would be much more expensive. Cheapest I found is a Mach 2 kit that would come at over 3 times as much

- it's a 1/72 Seamaster...

 

Cons:

- it's a vacuform kit, with all the added complications... mind, I've built vacuforms before and I know I can build them, but the kind of commitment would be huge

- it's a large vacuform kit, that adds further complications for the need of reinforcing all structural parts

- it's an Airmodel vacuform kit and this company was never really considered among the best, meaning it will require more work than similar kits from other companies

- many details will have to be scratchbuilt, although fortunately there aren't that many (not even a landing gear......)

- I don't really have the room to display such a model

- at the moment I would even struggle to find room to work on a model of such size....

- clear parts will likely have yellowed by now and replacing such parts is not easy

- decals would have to come from other sources and I may struggle to find them all..

- there are other P6M kits around, Mach 2 made a short run in plastic and Anigrand a resin kit... sure none would be Tamigawa easy but they would be much easier than this one

 

Overall the cons clearly win, so by logic I should not buy such a kit.... still I keep hearing an inner voice saying.... it's a 1/72 Seamaster !!!!!!! For £ 20 delivered....

So, what would you do ? Would you do the crazy thing and buy an Airmodel 1/72 P6M ?

Edited August 3, 2022 by Giorgio N

[RidgeRunner]

25 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

still I keep hearing an inner voice saying....

I have one of those, Giorgio

[Paul Thompson]

I agree with all the cons. Still, there are less than twice as many of those as there are pros, so by Old Modeller's Logic you should clearly buy the thing. FWIW, I've found fewer yellowed transparancies in Airmodel kits than others, so you might get lucky..............

 

Paul.

[Graham Boak]

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a dockside crane.  You've described the pros and cons very  neatly, so it is really up to you to decide between them.  Are you really prepared to have perhaps five years of modelling time (or at least twice what you now think it might need) dedicated to a single awkward subject?  If you really don't mind that and really want it then go for it.    In the end, £20 isn't that much to waste if you don't make it, but I can think of better things to waste my money on.  Looking at my stash, there are items there with which you might well not agree....  But that's as close as I'd come to recommending it - I don't want it on my conscience.

[europapete]

Don't worry about lack of disply space. If it is too big for the shelf, then get a cheap paddling pool and disply it in the garden! 

[Billy54]

I think, deep down, you really want this kit, so pull the trigger and get it. What's the worse that could happen? It stays in the stash unbuilt? The longer you contrmplate the purchase the more likely the chance that someone else picks it up.  

[Paul Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Billy54 said:

I think, deep down, you really want this kit, so pull the trigger and get it. What's the worse that could happen? It stays in the stash unbuilt? The longer you contrmplate the purchase the more likely the chance that someone else picks it up.  

And if you eventually decide it was a mistake, then you can sell it, at a profit or a loss but with the benefit of having learned something.

 

Paul.

 

[Bozothenutter]

Buy it, shelve it, enjoy research....

Enjoy planning build, full stop 😈

[bentwaters81tfw]

I bought one, I sold it, I made the Mach 2 one. More parts in the beaching trolley than the airframe, and you get decals.

You will need to micromesh the canopy as it falls between the 2 types, but it can be done.

[Giorgio N]

 

Well, thanks everyone for your thougths and opinions, all very interesting! I've pondered all before deciding....

 

2 hours ago, Paul Thompson said:

I agree with all the cons. Still, there are less than twice as many of those as there are pros, so by Old Modeller's Logic you should clearly buy the thing. FWIW, I've found fewer yellowed transparancies in Airmodel kits than others, so you might get lucky..............

 

Paul.

 

That is good to know, I have several yellowed canopies in other kits, including some early Czech short runs. I'm considering a way to make replacements but I've yet to test this

 

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a dockside crane.  You've described the pros and cons very  neatly, so it is really up to you to decide between them.  Are you really prepared to have perhaps five years of modelling time (or at least twice what you now think it might need) dedicated to a single awkward subject?  If you really don't mind that and really want it then go for it.    In the end, £20 isn't that much to waste if you don't make it, but I can think of better things to waste my money on.  Looking at my stash, there are items there with which you might well not agree....  But that's as close as I'd come to recommending it - I don't want it on my conscience.

 

Makes sense, I realize that this is the kind of project that would take a lot of time to complete. At the same time yes, £20 is not much and I've wasted more than that in kits that promised to be good and ended up being much worse. At least with this kit I know what I'm getting into, when I bought a set of 3 Revell new tool Spitfire IIs I was not expecting to have to sell two of them because of how frustrating the first was.. that is something I'm close to do with the AZ Bf.109E...

 

2 hours ago, europapete said:

Don't worry about lack of disply space. If it is too big for the shelf, then get a cheap paddling pool and disply it in the garden! 

 

So I guess that I would have to buy a house with a garden first... 😀

 

2 hours ago, Billy54 said:

I think, deep down, you really want this kit, so pull the trigger and get it. What's the worse that could happen? It stays in the stash unbuilt? The longer you contrmplate the purchase the more likely the chance that someone else picks it up.  

 

Guess so... I have memories of a vacuform Seamaster for sale many years ago at a local show, I think it may have been the Airmodel one as I can't remember others (or maybe there were other kits ?). I was 18 or 19 and the cost was way too high for my pockets. I probably still have that kit somewhere in my mind for this reason.

And yes, at worst it would share the stash with too many other kits...

 

1 hour ago, Bozothenutter said:

Buy it, shelve it, enjoy research....

Enjoy planning build, full stop 😈

 

It's the building stage that I too often struggle to reach.... 🤣

 

1 hour ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

I bought one, I sold it, I made the Mach 2 one. More parts in the beaching trolley than the airframe, and you get decals.

You will need to micromesh the canopy as it falls between the 2 types, but it can be done.

 

I checked around for the Mach 2 kit, of which there's also one built here on Britmodeller. Aviation Megastore has one for €55, so not a huge price for such a kit. I understand the Mach 2 kits would be a better option, more detailed and much easier to build... wait, how many other times have a Mach 2 kit described as easier to build than a kit from another company ? Maybe it would deserve being built for that reason alone...  🤣

[Paul Thompson]

Giorgio, you probably know already, but if you end up with an unuseable canopy, try filling it with Milliput (layer of something greasy in between so it will pull free easily), mounting the mould thus made on a handle, and crash moulding it. There's nothing to lose if you can't use the yellowed canopy anyway.

 

Paul.

[Giorgio N]

So in the end I decided to go for it ! Yes, I was probably already too tempted before asking my question and maybe my inner self had already decided.

Then someone bought a kit I had for sale on Ebay, so I thought why not re-invest immediately that money on a different kit, placed by bid and, unsurprisingly, I was the only bidder. I now have an old, basic 1/72 vacform kit of a P6M on the way home.

Total cost was around £18 delivered, that for a kit of such size is still IMHO a bargain. Hopefully I'll find the courage to build it (and in that case I will post pictures here), worst case I'll sell it should I realize I'd never be able to start it. Or I may just keep it as a reminder of the days when as a teen I looked in awe at the various large vacform kits that companies offered 35 years ago... did I ever mention that a few months ago I tried bidding on a number of kits. including things like a 1/72 vacuform DC-8 ??? Lost on all of them of course but at least I now got this P6M.

 

Thanks again to all for your input !

[RidgeRunner]

👍👍👍

[Giorgio N]

17 minutes ago, Paul Thompson said:

Giorgio, you probably know already, but if you end up with an unuseable canopy, try filling it with Milliput (layer of something greasy in between so it will pull free easily), mounting the mould thus made on a handle, and crash moulding it. There's nothing to lose if you can't use the yellowed canopy anyway.

 

Paul.

 

Paul, actually I even have a rudimentary vacform "machine", really just a wooden box with a perforated side and a attachment for a vacuum cleaner hose, plus a number of frames of different sizes onto which I stick the acetate sheets. With this I could even replicate the canopies with a proper or semi-proper technique.

Thing is that generally it's always a bit of a mess, I get a good canopy out of 10 attempts.. Now I'm investigating some clear resins, that are also messy and lead to variable results but I'm hoping to have better luck with them. If not, it will be back to vacforming

Edited August 3, 2022 by Giorgio N

[Paul Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Paul, actually I even have a rudimentary vacform "machine", really just a wooden box with a perforated side and a attachment for a vacuuacetatem cleaner hose, plus a number of frames of different sizes onto which I stick the acetate sheets. With this I could even replicate the canopies with a proper or semi-proper technique.

Thing is that generally it's always a bit of a mess, I get a good canopy out of 10 attempts.. Now I'm investigaring some clear resins, that are also messy and lead to variable results but I'm hoping to have better luck with them. If not, it will be back to vacforming

    I have an ancient Mattell vacuform that is just about still performing. There used to be some guys in America who sold bits to revamp them, but 15 years ago they lost my order, and nowadays seem to have disappeared altogether. Still, even in the current leaky state it's a bit more reliable than crash moulding, but a high failure rate goes with the territory anyway, I think. I'd be interested in hearing how it goes with the resin though. Good luck.

 

Paul.

[theplasticsurgeon]

Just caught this thread - after Giorgio committed. 

However, you've built VacForm before - and not been totally put off. That's a real bonus. 

I was put off after building a Savage and a Skywarrior last year - VacForm won't be gracing my bench again.

Have you seen the parts for this kit yet?  There may be a canopy blank with the non-transparents, as I found with my Skywarrior. 

Whatever you actually do with the kit, best of luck.

 

Strangely, the Mach2 SeaMaster kit turned up as a raffle prize at my archery club tournament about 10 years ago,

and was won by a delighted 10YO son of a colleague of mine.

[Tomas Enerdal]

Yeah;

The only way to properly handle a temptation is to give in for it.. 🙂

 

[perdu]

This is what temptation is for

 

I am glad you bought it to appease the gods of speculation.

 

Well done sir.

[tomprobert]

I’m delighted you’ve gone for it. It’ll be a hoot! And make sure you share your progress with us. 
 

Tom

[e8n2]

You know Giorgio, if you start building it, and get it near to completion, or at least close to the external painting stage, Roden or somebody else will spring a last minute surprise on us and announce a 72nd scale injected kit of it due out the following month or two!  I have a WIP going on for the Rareplane AJ-2 Savage and am almost ready to start painting it flat and gloss sea blue where appropriate, and Tommy Thomason announces today that Roden is putting out an AJ-1 in 72nd due maybe as early as September!  I've made some Airmodel kits in the past and since it is a seaplane the only real scratch building you should have to do will be the cockpit.  I also have built the Nova Vac kits of the C-135 family (options for several different versions) and the C-141B.  I did the -135 as an EC-135C as I was stationed at Offutt AFB at the time and we had a number of those around.  I was living in the barracks at the time, so not much room.  I did the C-141B when I was living in base housing at Beale AFB.  Not a whole lot or room there either.   Here are a couple of shots of the C-141B now at the Travis AFB museum"

 

Building vac kits are like riding a bike.  You never forget, just might need to remember things from the past a bit.

Later,

Dave

[Giorgio N]

16 hours ago, theplasticsurgeon said:

Just caught this thread - after Giorgio committed. 

However, you've built VacForm before - and not been totally put off. That's a real bonus. 

I was put off after building a Savage and a Skywarrior last year - VacForm won't be gracing my bench again.

Have you seen the parts for this kit yet?  There may be a canopy blank with the non-transparents, as I found with my Skywarrior. 

Whatever you actually do with the kit, best of luck.

 

Strangely, the Mach2 SeaMaster kit turned up as a raffle prize at my archery club tournament about 10 years ago,

and was won by a delighted 10YO son of a colleague of mine.

 

I'd be pretty happy to get the same results you had with your USN bombers, both look good. I can understand the frustrations though, they are not the easiest projects.

The Seamaster is a sense is probably easier than both your kits as this type was very "smooth", lacking pylons and nacelles. Getting parts like these properly aligned is often a challenge and I'm glad I will not have to do it. On the other hand the P6M is larger, that brings in different problems.

I have seen the parts in the original Ebay listing and in a number of online pictures, there's also an online build on a forum, so I kind of know what to expect. The canopy is maybe as accurate as I'd have liked but it's all clear.

Funny how that Mach 2 kit ended up with a kid.. I'm sure he was very happy... wonder if it ever got built though...

 

15 hours ago, tomprobert said:

I’m delighted you’ve gone for it. It’ll be a hoot! And make sure you share your progress with us. 
 

Tom

 

Thanks, this is the kind of project you would probably complete in a couple weeks,, 😀

 

2 hours ago, e8n2 said:

You know Giorgio, if you start building it, and get it near to completion, or at least close to the external painting stage, Roden or somebody else will spring a last minute surprise on us and announce a 72nd scale injected kit of it due out the following month or two!  I have a WIP going on for the Rareplane AJ-2 Savage and am almost ready to start painting it flat and gloss sea blue where appropriate, and Tommy Thomason announces today that Roden is putting out an AJ-1 in 72nd due maybe as early as September!  I've made some Airmodel kits in the past and since it is a seaplane the only real scratch building you should have to do will be the cockpit.  I also have built the Nova Vac kits of the C-135 family (options for several different versions) and the C-141B.  I did the -135 as an EC-135C as I was stationed at Offutt AFB at the time and we had a number of those around.  I was living in the barracks at the time, so not much room.  I did the C-141B when I was living in base housing at Beale AFB.  Not a whole lot or room there either.   Here are a couple of shots of the C-141B now at the Travis AFB museum"

 

 

Building vac kits are like riding a bike.  You never forget, just might need to remember things from the past a bit.

Later,

Dave

 

Very nice model Dave ! Guess it took a lot of work to get to such a result.  I will have a look at your Savage thread, this is another subject for which I considered going with a vacform... of course now I will just wait for the Roden kit,

I've never had a Nova kit in mu hands but I heard they were some of the best vacs around. I lost a bid war for one of their CF-105 that I meant to crosskit with the Hobbycraft kit to get a more accurate model and I liked what the pictures showed.

Yes, with the P6M being a seaplane it's going to be easier than many other subjects.. no pylons, no nacelles, no propellers, no landing gear, no wheel wells... of course I may have to think of something like a beaching trolley but I'd rather do that than scratchbuilding a wheel well

[gingerbob]

3 hours ago, e8n2 said:

Building vac kits are like riding a bike.  You never forget, just might need to remember things from the past a bit.

 

Yeah, like how much it hurts when you crash!

 

My answer was going to be, "If you have to ask, don't do it!"  But you should see the things I brought home from the last show I attended...

[Robin-42]

19 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

 

“I've never had a Nova kit in mu hands but I heard they were some of the best vacs around. I lost a bid war for one of their CF-105 that I meant to crosskit with the Hobbycraft kit to get a more accurate model and I liked what the pictures showed.”

I have never heard of a Nova CF105 kit, Scalemates doesn’t list it either. Are you sure it wasn’t the Astra kit? It is very accurate.

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Robin-42

[e8n2]

I thought I had posted these two pictures before, but I guess not.  I now have them up on my Flickr account and can post them here.  One is a shot of the C-141B while nearing completion.  It hadn't been decaled yet.  And the second one is of it complete with a vac conversion of a Gannet AEW 3 on the same little table.  It's a card table no more than a meter in diameter, maybe even smaller.  These were polaroid pictures so the quality is not the greatest, especially when you are dealing with a 20 year old scanner that will only work on Windows 2000!

 

 

 

There were no cockpit seats or much detail to speak of so as I remember I swipped some seats from an Italeri C-130 and a Hasegawa P-3.  Hey, they were all built by Lockheed, what could go wrong? 😉

Later,

Dave

[Giorgio N]

4 hours ago, Robin-42 said:

 

 

My mistake, yes the CF-105 was from Astra