Canadian Cruiser Ram Tank Mk.I painted in what colour on assembly line at the Montreal Locomotive Works, Montreal, Quebec

[ColonelKrypton]

 

Early on during WWII, Canada started manufacture of the British Valentine tank and considered manufacture of the US M3 Lee.  The M3 was never made but using it's reliable basic chassis and power plant the Ram tank was developed. 

 

The first 50 Ram tanks made were Mk.I's and the above image shows some of these Mk.I's rolling off the assembly line. The first very few of Mk.I's did not have the front fenders/splash guards, at least not initially. 

 

I am working on backdating Bronco's Ram Mk.II (early production) to a Mk.I which I intend to be fitted out as the vehicle in the lower right hand corner of that image.

 

What colour would these vehicles be?  I am guessing that at this stage of just rolling off the assembly line that they would still be in red oxide primer as they would have not as yet been to the finish paint shop. 

 

Black and white film typically renders red as a darker grey so my guess is likely red oxide primer but I am open to counter arguments and suggestions.

 

Thoughts?

 

cheers, Graham

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by ColonelKrypton
update

[Kingsman]

Canada followed British colour practice.  In chronological order, Khaki Green 3, SCC2 Brown and SCC15 Olive Drab.  Although some sources suggest US OD instead of SCC15 from early 1944 as supplies of OD were easier to get.

 

The KG3 to SCC2 change as the universal colour was authorised in May 42, although it may have been in limited use before then. But existing stocks of KG3 were to be exhausted first, so the changeover was more gradual than sudden.  Canada does not seem to have authorised the change until July 42.

 

However, Ram 1s were all built before the end of Feb 42.  So they would have been Khaki Green 3.  Ram II production began before the colour change.  Ram IIs with the M3 bogies would probably all have been Khaki Green 3 too.  Ram IIs with the M4 bogies would mostly have been SCC2 with some early ones in KG3.

[ColonelKrypton]

@Das Abteilung, thank you for that.

 

But, all that notwithstanding, my question is really about what paint these vehicles would be in as they started to roll off the end of assembly as depicted in the image in the first post. 

 

I suspect that they would not have as yet been to the paint shop so would not be in their Khaki Green paint but would more likely still have been in whatever red oxide primer the parts would have been prior to assembly.

 

However, in the background on the other side of the factory are some basic hulls which appear darker in the image - these could be and likely are still in their primer.  Perhaps the ones in the foreground have been painted are Kakhi Green. I just don't know anything about of the work flow on the assembly line to know for certain.

 

I have been looking at some images of M3 and M4 assembly at some of the US plants to try and get a better understanding of typical workflow in such a plant but so far it is still uncertain as when these vehicle would get their finish paint job.

 

Perhaps I will have to flip a coin or just go with my best guess.

 

cheers, Graham 

[Kingsman]

Noting that the tracks are on already and thinking of images of Shermans in the paint shop with tracks on, it is plausible that the lower hull and suspension are already painted final colour.  Look at the mess we made of repainting Grants and Stuarts in N Africa with stripes across the wheels from the bogie arms, hard to reach bits left unpainted etc.  British painting instructions, presumably replicated by Canada as was the norm, made it very clear that rubber parts were not to be painted as the paint affected the rubber.  That covers spraying over the tracks and roadwheels.  I can't see the tracks being removed and wheel tyres individually masked off with the tank being rolled forward in the paint shop to rotate the roadwheels.  Would they have used brush painting for any areas or was it all sprayed?

[ColonelKrypton]

@Das Abteilung - all very good points, I hadn't considered that the lower bits might have been already painted prior to assembly to the hull but that certainly does make sense.

 

Brushed or sprayed I don't know. I would guess that by the 1940's almost all such industrial painting would have been sprayed as being the easiest and quickest way.  

 

Interestingly there is much historical data and statistics that can be found of the war time years but details of the mundane day to day work are not so easy to uncover. 

 

I think I have now been convinced that the RAM at this stage of assembly would have been painted and given the date khaki green no.3 as you had previously noted.

 

Here is another interesting photo of the war time Montreal Locomotive works RAM assembly line  Mk.II's this time and quite clearly not in red primer. Of interest is the scuffing and rubbing patterns on the painted surfaces which I will have to keep in mind.

 

 

Cheers, Graham

 

[Mike Starmer]

Military vehicles were often component painted.  The wheels, bogies, turrets, hatches etc would all be pre-painted before assembly onto the pre-painted lower hull , These can be masked off when the bulk of the vehicle is painted.  Those dark coloured tanks in background are in Red Oxide primer.

[ColonelKrypton]

Thank you Mike, I appreciate your commenting.

 

cheers, Graham