Help with Tamiya TS Paints for a beginner :)

[AC16]

Hi,

 

I am starting to get back into modelling since i was a child. Yesterday, I gave my first model car in about 20 years a spray with Tamiya TS-50. 

 

I did 2 light coats which came out amazingly and was really happy. I then did a third coat (slightly wetter) and for some reason, it went dull and slightly rough. It seems to have lost its metallic shine and now has more of a matte shimmer.

 

Please see pictures - first one is after the 2nd coat and the second picture is after the 3rd coat. Curious to know what happened? This might even be normal and look amazing, I'm not sure haha. I just preferred it after the second coat.

 

In terms of getting the shine back, I am thinking a few light coats of clear gloss (TS-13) - will that get the shine to something similar as before?

 

Any help is much appreciated. I am very much a beginner and not after the perfect mirror coat and not sure I am confident enough to sand etc, just want it half decent and looking like after the second coat.

 

Picture 1 - shiny second coat: https://postimg.cc/zHhtgsPD

 

Picture 2 - more of a matte shimmer third coat: https://postimg.cc/1gTrrWF8 

 

Thank you all :)

[Casey]

Does the surface feel smooth or does it feel like it has any roughness?

 

One of explanations is that the paint dried too quick or the underlying layer was bit tacky which prevented mica particles to position themselves to form a glossy flat layer.

[AC16]

2 minutes ago, Casey said:

Does the surface feel smooth or does it feel like it has any roughness?

 

One of explanations is that the paint dried too quick or the underlying layer was bit tacky which prevented mica particles to position themselves to form a glossy flat layer.

Thanks Casey for the reply.

 

It defo feels like it has a roughness. I assume the paint dried too quick as the time between the second coat and the third coat was about 3 hours so the underlying layer was definitely dry. 

 

Will some light TS-13 coats get some shine back?

[Casey]

If the surface is rough, the mica particles (which are rather large) may have issue flowing smoothly to form a surface. Adding gloss coat may be better idea there, but I would check that first If you have any sprayed part of sprue or part that is not visible.

 

To give you some more explanation, this is how mica particles should look like inside a paint:

 

 

The paint is having an flow improver and retarder to give enough time for the particles 'settle down' to lay in layer that looks like, well, pearlized mica. On top of that layer there is also a thin coat of binder that forms a smooth surface.

 

If the paint dries too fast, some particles may be sticking 'up' from the binder and forming uneven layer, thats why adding more of them may continue to make the issue worse...

 

I would check both.

 

 

[AC16]

3 minutes ago, Casey said:

If the surface is rough, the mica particles (which are rather large) may have issue flowing smoothly to form a surface. Adding gloss coat may be better idea there, but I would check that first If you have any sprayed part of sprue or part that is not visible.

 

To give you some more explanation, this is how mica particles should look like inside a paint:

 

 

The paint is having an flow improver and retarder to give enough time for the particles 'settle down' to lay in layer that looks like, well, pearlized mica. On top of that layer there is also a thin coat of binder that forms a smooth surface.

 

If the paint dries too fast, some particles may be sticking 'up' from the binder and forming uneven layer, thats why adding more of them may continue to make the issue worse...

 

I would check both.

 

 

Okay thanks, with your best guess, am I better getting another can of TS-50 or Clear gloss TS-13? they are quite expensive and ideally dont want to buy both.

 

Thanks you again

[Casey]

Personally I'd also clear gloss, since it has more uses than just this particular color, and is less likely to make issues worse.

 

If you plan to make a lot of models, you may want to think about getting an airbrush - it gets cheaper in a long run.

[Ngantek]

I'd be tempted to sand the rough layer back very lightly with some fine (>800) sandpaper before adding to it. The less you ask of the gloss cote, the better.

[AC16]

1 hour ago, Ngantek said:

I'd be tempted to sand the rough layer back very lightly with some fine (>800) sandpaper before adding to it. The less you ask of the gloss cote, the better.

Thanks for the help  I'm slightly nervous sanding as i have never done it before and read that sanding a metallic type paint can sometimes cause further issues? Was hoping a gloss coat would just give it its shine back 😕

 

Would a couple of light coats of the blue maybe help at all or make it worse? 

 

So annoyed at myself as I had it pretty much perfect after 2 coats for my first ever try with spray 

[Casey]

16 minutes ago, AC16 said:

So annoyed at myself as I had it pretty much perfect after 2 coats for my first ever try with spray

If it is of any help, my spray cans attempts are usually having quite random success ratio...

[AC16]

46 minutes ago, Casey said:

If it is of any help, my spray cans attempts are usually having quite random success ratio...

Well that’s good to know (kind of), never wish it on anyone!

 

thanks again for the words of help.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Well body shops for cars wet sand in between each coat of paint on show cars and usually get a wet look on the final paint. Ive wet sanded models many times between costs and the results are very similar on plastic as they're on metal bodies. 

[AC16]

1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Well body shops for cars wet sand in between each coat of paint on show cars and usually get a wet look on the final paint. Ive wet sanded models many times between costs and the results are very similar on plastic as they're on metal bodies. 

Thank you - as a beginner, I am quite nervous about sanding as never done it before. I just want the shine back 😩

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, AC16 said:

Thank you - as a beginner, I am quite nervous about sanding as never done it before. I just want the shine back 😩

Understandable do you have higher grit polishing pads or wet/dry sand paper. Something in the 2,000 to 12,000 grit range ? If so dip it in warm water and test a section of the panted plastic by sanding in circles using a clock-wise/counter-clockwise motion. Then after 10 circle's each direction dry it off and feel the plastic. If not smooth enough repeat the process until your happy its smooth. Then repaint it and see if that helps. 

[Fnick]

One thing to bear in mind as well is the humidity. I had a similar issue with TS13 when the first two coats when down fine and the third one came out foggy. The humidity had been too high. A very gentle sanding followed by another coat cured the problem.

 

Nick

[AC16]

7 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Understandable do you have higher grit polishing pads or wet/dry sand paper. Something in the 2,000 to 12,000 grit range ? If so dip it in warm water and test a section of the panted plastic by sanding in circles using a clock-wise/counter-clockwise motion. Then after 10 circle's each direction dry it off and feel the plastic. If not smooth enough repeat the process until your happy its smooth. Then repaint it and see if that helps. 

thank you, might give it a try. Got to learn sometime and whats the worst that can happen...... was hoping just shooting some some clear might have done the trick 😕

[AC16]

10 minutes ago, Fnick said:

One thing to bear in mind as well is the humidity. I had a similar issue with TS13 when the first two coats when down fine and the third one came out foggy. The humidity had been too high. A very gentle sanding followed by another coat cured the problem.

 

Nick

Thanks Nick, what grit did you use? is TS-13 the clear? What do you think might happen if i just did some light coats of TS-13 over my model currently? Will it bring its shine back?

[bentwaters81tfw]

For sanding you can try Micromesh, it comes in some really fine grits, work your way up to the high numbers, and you can get a glass like finish with sanding.

Try a test piece and see how you go. Slowly does it.

[cmatthewbacon]

How long did you leave it between the second and third coats? It looks to me like the solvent in the wetter third coat has attacked the one underneath. I find with TS cans, there’s no need to try to get a “wet coat” (and if you do, you can end up with weird effects like the paint pulling back from the edges of panel lines.) Just keep applying light coats every 10-15 minutes until the colour doesn’t change any more. It’ll look a bit orange peel-ly to begin with, but as it settles down and cures over the next 24-48 hours, that will mostly disappear. Then you can polish it with plastic polish if necessary.
 

To the matter in hand: sanding on that shape will be a pain, and you’ll probably end up burning through in various places. If you’re going to try fixing it with a clear coat, then leave it a week or two before you do: TS-13 either needs to be laid down as the last few layers of the light coats method, or after the underlying paint has completely cured off and stabilised.

The best solution is to take it off and start again. If you have access to Isopropyl alcohol then dunk it in a tub of that for a couple of days. If not, good old Dettol works, too, a bit more fragrantly…

Best,

M.

[cmatthewbacon]

… and don’t worry: every car modeller has had to strip a body or two and start again in their time. It’s a rite of passage. 
best,

M.

[AC16]

4 minutes ago, cmatthewbacon said:

How long did you leave it between the second and third coats? It looks to me like the solvent in the wetter third coat has attacked the one underneath. I find with TS cans, there’s no need to try to get a “wet coat” (and if you do, you can end up with weird effects like the paint pulling back from the edges of panel lines.) Just keep applying light coats every 10-15 minutes until the colour doesn’t change any more. It’ll look a bit orange peel-ly to begin with, but as it settles down and cures over the next 24-48 hours, that will mostly disappear. Then you can polish it with plastic polish if necessary. To the matter in hand: sanding on that shape will be a pain, and you’ll probably end up burning through in various places. If you’re going to try fixing it with a clear coat, then leave it a week or two before you do: TS-13 either needs to be laid down as the last few layers of the light coats method, or after the underlying paint has completely cured off and stabilised.

The best solution is to take it off and start again. If you have access to Isopropyl alcohol then dunk it in a tub of that for a couple of days. If not, good old Dettol works, too, a bit more fragrantly…

Best,

M.

Thanks for the advice  do you think sanding is possible if I’m really careful, get it smooth and then a light new coat over the top? Was about to order some 2000 grit. 
 

It was about 3 hours between the 2nd and 3rd coats. 
 

If I applied TS-13 as it is, will it bring it back to life do you think? 
 

cheers 

[cmatthewbacon]

2-3 hours is too long between TS spray coats. The layer underneath has “skinned” before you hit it with new wet solvent, and it’s crazed it. Like I say, light coats 15 mins apart is the way to go. 
 

In all honesty, if you’ve not sanded a body before, you’re way more likely to stuff it up by doing THAT, and that’s before you get to the clear coat.

 

IMHO, sanding is an overrated skill in car modelling ;-P. Better just to get to the point of being able to reliably get a shiny paint coat.

A thicker 2K clear might bring that back to life, but TS-13 won’t, and you REALLY don’t want to be using 2K on your first model in years.

 

Your best bet is to take it off and start over. You’ll get a better result in the end, and it’s a good learning experience.

 

Best,

M.

[AC16]

2 minutes ago, cmatthewbacon said:

2-3 hours is too long between TS spray coats. The layer underneath has “skinned” before you hit it with new wet solvent, and it’s crazed it. Like I say, light coats 15 mins apart is the way to go. 
 

In all honesty, if you’ve not sanded a body before, you’re way more likely to stuff it up by doing THAT, and that’s before you get to the clear coat.

 

IMHO, sanding is an overrated skill in car modelling ;-P. Better just to get to the point of being able to reliably get a shiny paint coat.

A thicker 2K clear might bring that back to life, but TS-13 won’t, and you REALLY don’t want to be using 2K on your first model in years.

 

Your best bet is to take it off and start over. You’ll get a better result in the end, and it’s a good learning experience.

 

Best,

M.

Thank you very much for all of this, it’s great having everyone in here try and help. It’s much appreciated.

 

One last question, how many coats of TS paint? 2-3 light ones?

 

Cheers

[cmatthewbacon]

Always light. How many depends on what colour. I always start with Tamiya Fine Surface Primer. Mostly the grey one, but white for yellows and whites, and pink for red (also for yellow, if I have any to hand… supplies are more intermittent.) Then as many coats as it takes that when you put the last one on, the model looks the same colour as it did before. Don’t be tempted to put more on to make it go faster. The first coats _should_ look speckly. You keep adding more speckles until they merge into an even colour. If you’re using metallics or pearls, apply coats at different angles, along and across the car. If you do them all the same way the finish won’t be even. And those really DO need to be light coats otherwise the flake will sink in the liquid paint and gather visibly.

 

best,

M.

[AC16]

Hi all,

 

Thought I would post an update....

 

I ended up stripping the paint off as was nervous about sanding and gave it another go of the blue. Here is how it turned out....

 

https://postimg.cc/D87tV15s

 

https://postimg.cc/jWJf4gwr

 

Im v happy with the result, obviously not perfect but gave it my best shot  and million times better than before.

 

Just need to decide if I want to risk putting on some clear coat on 😕

 

Thanks all for the help, was super helpful