Trumpeter Ju-87 raised rivets

[Victor Crux]

Hello,

 

I'm building Trumpeter's Ju-87 in 1/32nd scale. Whilst it's probably the best Stuka on the market in this scale, unfortunately, it is missing quite a few details which Border Model's 1/35th example has, such as raised rivets. I plan to build the Stuka to a high accuracy as possible and would like to add some raised rivets to it. So here is where my query begins. 

 

Does anyone have any advice on the correct size of raised rivet for such a scale? What are everyone's experiences with the after market raised rivets? What is your favourite brand and product? I have found one product which looks good (https://quinta-studio.com/en/product/594/). Does anyone have any experience with those ones! 

 

I look forward to all your advice and if anyone who's already built this model has any advice, I'd love to hear it. 

 

Thank you in advance!

Edited July 25, 2022 by Victor Crux

[Troy Smith]

8 hours ago, Victor Crux said:

such as raised rivets.

myth.

 

Ju-87 was flush riveted

 

 

 

 

 

 

and

 

from

https://ipms.nl/walkarounds/walkaround-vliegtuigen-props/2332-walkaround-junkers-stuka

 

 

Junkers Ju 87B Stuka StG1 flak damaged Poland Sep 1939

 

 

HTH

 

 

[tempestfan]

I am pretty certain one respected reviewer commented on the 1/24 Airfix kit when it was new that it correctly represented the raised rivets behind the wing profile apex, and included a very low angle shot of the Chicago B to demonstrate. Mind you, they were not Tyneside style, so the shot had to be low angle and close up to make them visible. And looking at the wings of the Hendon D, I'm not completely convinced that they are not raised - finely, but raised. Which, even if it were true, raises (pun intended) the follow-up question whether any aftermarket rivets even in 32nd would look convincing.

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, tempestfan said:

And looking at the wings of the Hendon D, I'm not completely convinced that they are not raised - finely, but raised.

That IS flush riveting, as opposed to mushroom head riveting. 

 

Hurricane wing

 

leading edge, front 1/3rd is flush riveted, the remainder is mushroom head

 

from

 

on thinner skinning,  flush rivets cause dishing of the metal.  

this is what you can see here

 

and less clearly, on the wings. 

 

Many years ago, the late Peter Cooke in an article on Griffon Spitfires, Oct/Now 1978 IIRC,  pointed out how the leading 'D' of the Spitfire wing was thicker gauge metal, and the flush rivets were filled and rubbed down, and were nearly invisible 1:1, while the rest oif the wing was flush riveted, but caused the thinner skinning to dish, which is why you could see them, and  remarking how battered and hand made  Spitfires looked  compared to those used to plastic kits.

 

and, leading edge, this is a museum plane that has likely lost the filler

vs thinner wing skinning further back, 

 

from

 

Somebody will have a better close up of the Ju-87 wing, 

5 hours ago, tempestfan said:

I am pretty certain one respected reviewer commented on the 1/24 Airfix kit when it was new that it correctly represented the raised rivets behind the wing profile apex, and included a very low angle shot of the Chicago B to demonstrate.

when NEW, that was late 1976.

 

this has come up before

 

  

On 27/01/2020 at 10:46, Ray_W said:

Can we talk about Stuka rivets. Everything I've seen shows nice flush riveting. Maybe there are some somewhere but I think the usual comment that the Stuka is covered in a mass of protruding rivets is a modelling myth. I know the D/G were flush rivetted. I thought maybe the B's were not and the D was flush rivetted as an improvement in aerodynamic performance. No, seems the same. Any counter evidence?

 

 

As always, happy to be proved wrong. 

 

HTH

[72modeler]

There are also raised head rivets on either side of the metal strips that  run chordwise  on the inner wing roots that are used for walkways- that and the other wing areas as described and illustrated above. Not really a Stuka expert, but I do recall seeing the riveted strips in period photos. Hope this helps! (The Fw-189  and Bv-141 have the same riveted walkway strips, IIRC.)

Mike

Edited July 25, 2022 by 72modeler
corrected punctuation)

[Ray_W]

2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

There are also raised head rivets on either side of the metal strips that  run chordwise  on the inner wing roots that are used for walkways

 

Yes correct. Note also a few on the cockpit canopy.

 

 

But not always unless they're under the strip. I have some other photos I can check later. I recall some early war versions also with the walkway strip (assume anti-slip). Probably the usual caveat. Check your reference.

 

 

Ray

[Ed Russell]

The Ju87 had flush rivets apart from those few mushrooms indicated. Probably the best way to represent them is with a beading tool. To make it realistic, ding the plastic unevenly with a round headed punch, occasionally wipe a tiny bit of filler around and then make a circle with the beading tool. It will be 100% right but you won't win any competitions with it!

[Victor Crux]

Thanks for your help everyone! It certainly makes my life easier. Fortunately, the Trumpeter moulds have raised rivets on the walkway strop and the rest are all flush rivets. Looks like all I will need to do is buy a 1/32 riveting tool. I believe however there were some raised rivets on the tail near where the rudder connects (https://www.flickr.com/photos/historicair/49536808948). Their profile is minimal though. Does anyone know of a feasible 1/32 product to achieve those raised rivets? I will check some more reference material. Further advice and reference material all welcome. So please keep the thread alive If you would like to contribute something!

[Charlie Hugo]

Have you looked at Archers Transfers? They produce a 3-dimensional rivits in decal format. I have not tried them myself but the may your answer

[Tbolt]

At quick look at the walk around of the Hendon aircraft in the Aero Detail books shows a number of areas with raised rivets on the wing, fuselage and tailplane. I don't know how accurate the aircraft is but I would try and get a good walk around of it.

 

These shots from a walk around shows the leading edge of the wing is flush riveted with plenty of raised ones behind that and raised screws for the landing light access panel. Unfortunately many of the walk arounds available are not of great quality so it's not easy to see the rivets.

 

 

 

Underside of the fuselage.

 

 

Close up under the wing.

 

 

[dov]

Hallo

Basically there are areas on each airframe, where raised rivets never occur.

There are also areas which are most stressed and raised rivets may occure.

Even on todays jets you can find them or head cap screws.

On old airframes collected after the war, sometimes they were 'restaurated' as thought.

Not at all by todays restauration levels.

Such matters occurred all over the world.

Happy modelling

[Victor Crux]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I am going to do some research into the Ju-87 at RAF museum. It will be interesting to find out if the raised rivets seen in Tbolt's post are original or part of a restoration project. Also, i'll have a look into whether riveting was different between D/G variants and B/R variants as I plan on building an R variant. Thanks for the suggestion about Archer's transfers. They look brilliant. Has anyone had any experience with them?

[Steve N]

From this side of The Pond, here are a few detail shots I've taken over the years of the only other surviving, complete Stuka in the world, the Ju 87R-2 Trop at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago.  You can see that the rivets aft of the forward spar are mostly raised,  As mentioned above, flush riveting in those days was generally only used in areas where it produced the most aerodynamic benefit.  Forgive the image size..I figured they'd be most useful at maximum resolution. 

 

Cheers!

 

Steve

 

 

 

[G.R.Morrison]

Steve N,

Thanks for those.  Always nice to see pics of WNr.5954 (SKZ: CB+PX).  "A5+HL" of the 3./StG 1 was hit by enemy fire 22.Nov. 1941, but managed to return to Gambut, where it was left behind in a retreat.  Immediate post-capture photos show the wheel covers /'spats' unmounted, nearby -- but evidently not reattached before shipment.

 

I wonder where the museum got the ordnance?  They aren't SC50s, but perhaps someone recognizes them?

 

GRM