British license plate queries

[keefr22]

11 hours ago, Spiny said:

No longer have to, but not unheard of for cars to still have the old one in (I still have the tax disc in the Focus for example).

 

I know, we still have the last expired one in the Mini. My point was, being lazy, not having to find or print a tax disc for a current day model is a bonus....!! 🤣

 

Keith

[Max Headroom]

There is the apocryphal beer mat or ‘tax in post’ option for the tax disc! 
 

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought the disc had to be on the right hand side of the screen when looking from the front, because that was usually the side nearest to the pavement and so safer for the police and traffic wardens to check? Convention was usually the bottom right hand corner.

 

Trevor

[keefr22]

1 hour ago, Max Headroom said:

but I always thought the disc had to be on the right hand side of the screen when looking from the front,

 

I recall it was the bottom left, and I think if it was displayed on the top of, or right hand side of the screen you could get  fined (for non display IIRC!! I seem to remember getting a few complaints about that when I worked in DVLA Vehicle Enquiries - stock answer was 'nothing to do with us, please contact your DVLA Local Office! 🤣)

 

Keith

[malpaso]

Bottom left from inside, bottom right from outside - so you’re both right!

I had my Spitfire’s one in a motorcycle holder at the top of the screen and never had a problem.  Whereas the clammy plastic holder in the bottom corner of soft tops was always vulnerable to low life’s or wind eddying round the screen at speed!

[johnlambert]

2 hours ago, malpaso said:

Bottom left from inside, bottom right from outside - so you’re both right!

I had my Spitfire’s one in a motorcycle holder at the top of the screen and never had a problem.  Whereas the clammy plastic holder in the bottom corner of soft tops was always vulnerable to low life’s or wind eddying round the screen at speed!

That reminds me of my first motorbike (not that long ago).  It definitely had a tax disk holder when I bought it, but I remember one day going to replace the disk to find that both disk and holder had vanished.  I assume it had either fallen off or been stolen.  I never got around to buying a new holder, although I always made sure it was taxed.  The requirement to display a tax disk was dropped soon after (thank goodness).

[Black Knight]

10 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

. . .

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought the disc had to be on the right hand side of the screen when looking from the front, because that was usually the side nearest to the pavement and so safer for the police and traffic wardens to check? Convention was usually the bottom right hand corner.

. . .

N.I. different again; centre of edge of screen on passenger side* within about 6 inches of centre and about 2 inches clear of edge, rotated either straight or slightly angled for easy reading.  

* 'passenger side' so it was on right side on left hookers

On motorcycles it was to be in a holder attached to the left (rider's left) of the front fork, either on the headlamp bracket, or attached down by the front wheel axle or inside a headlamp fairing, on the screen part. Attached anywhere close to these points was acceptable. 

We used to glue the disc to the clear cover of the holder so it could not be removed without tearing it. We also used to glue the holder closed and used buggered bolts to attach it. You needed vice-grips to undo the bolt. Also it was allowed to put a note in the holder 'Rider has tax disc in pocket'

N.I. is a motorcycle enthusiast country  and this is reflected in how motorcyclists are treated

[keefr22]

2 hours ago, malpaso said:

Bottom left from inside, bottom right from outside - so you’re both right!

 

Of course...!!

 

K

[johnlambert]

This post came up on my Facebook feed from the group, "British Leyland Chronicles".  While it mostly repeats what has been discussed, it does add a few bits of new information.

 

Quote

August: Plate change month .... (and those rare N and X suffix registrations)

In the "days of British Leyland" August was a very busy time for car dealers in Great Britain - because the change of the registration plate suffix (last letter) on August 1st made a new car registered that day appear a year newer than one registered on July 31st - creating a spike in new registrations (and therefore car sales) in August.

It hadn't always been like that, the letter change day being, until 1967, on January 1st (a little more logically). Though there were regional variations with a true national system (excluding Northern Ireland) not being in place until the C plate introduced on January 1st 1965. (some areas didn't adopt A and B, or introduced them at differing times).

But in 1967 in an effort to spread business more evenly through the year, seven months of "E" registrations were followed by the introduction of "F" for twelve months commencing August 1st 1967 - as set out on the chart attached.

The spike in August appeared in later years, and ended up causing serious trouble for the car industry (who had trouble building for such a peak), for dealers (who had trouble giving all those cars a proper inspection) - while aiding importers - as the August UK peak conveniently coincided with a weak month for car demand on the continent, in France especially, to the delight of Renault & Co. who spent a big chunk of June and July building RHD cars.

It was one of many reasons Ford and Vauxhall became major car importers, as the spike in demand for a car like Cortina could be met by importing from continental plants.

It's also created a complexity (for sites like this ) as people tend to assign old cars a year based on the registration suffix.

So, for example, any Jaguar XJ6 registered in Great Britain on an "N" plate (introduced August 1st 1974) is likely to be described as a "1974 Jaguar". Even though in the United States (and elsewhere) the "model year" starts in the autumn of the preceding year - so the expression "1974 Jaguars" refers to the revised models introduced in late 1973, and a "1974 Jaguar" could be one delivered in October 1973, while one delivered in October 1974 would probably be a "1975 Jaguar" ... The two countries are almost a year out of sync. - if that makes sense .

Another aspect of the British "suffix" system is that some 12 month periods were much weaker for car sales than others, and therefore considerably fewer cars were sold, or survive, on the relevant plates.

The "N" plate (corresponding with a recessionary period in late 1974/early 1975) and the "X' plate (coinciding with a similar economic crisis in late 1981/early 1982) are examples of that.

And (anecdotally) you're a lot less likely to spot an N reg. or X reg. car on the road or at a show than a plate from one of the "banner years" like "K" & "L" (coinciding with the "Barber boom" of the early 70s), or "Y" - when car sales boomed in late 1982/early 83.

After Y - when they had exhausted the alphabet, the suffix system simply became a prefix system (A123 ABC) and the annual August 1st change-over date was maintained (until 1998 - when the S prefix introduced on August 1st covered only the subsequent 7 months).

There were voices in the 80s & 90s calling for the system to be scrapped due to the distortions it caused, but on the other hand some car marketing people saw it as generating extra sales (due to the status/snob value of having the latest letter) and the police were keen as it helped with vehicle identification etc. as witnesses to a crime seemed to remember it was a "T reg. Jag they got away in" - or similar ...

As seen on the chart attached - some letters were not used on number-plates to avoid confusion, so there was no registration year for I, O, Q, U or Z as a suffix.

But Q was used in special cases, in both the suffix era and prefix era - when it applied to kit cars and similar.

White (front) and yellow (rear) reflective number plates became legal on January Ist 1968 (when "F reg" was current) so the first time such plates appear in manufacturer advertising etc. is 1968 - displaying F (see comment). They did not become obligatory until January 1st 1973 so a lot of advertising and press photography from later years still shows the old style black and white numberplates (which were normally a little cheaper).

A separate number plate system applied in Northern Ireland (which is why I refer specifically to "Great Britain" above).

 

Anecdotally, I recall that the "A" prefix seemed very popular, possibly because it happened to coincide with an economic upturn and was a really clear way of indicating how new your new car was.

[Bengalensis]

FRE 517K - suddenly it all became very easy.

 

I've given much thought about where the car would be located and who the owner would be. What @Black Knight wrote felt very close to my own thoughts.

 

On 25/07/2022 at 17:23, Black Knight said:

Of the 3 Wedges known to me;

1 was owned by a young new art & modern languages teacher at my school

1 was owned by a top Belfast architect. He also had a Lotus Europa. Chosen so he could open up plans on the engine cover at building sites - I kid you not, he told me and I saw him doing it

1 was owned by a very nice looking young lady who lived near me

 

Then I found two photos from the Bond Bug brochure that checked all three of those owners. And there was FRE 517K, on white/yellow plates. Staffordshire (up to 1974) is not Northern Ireland and it's only brochure photos, but they captured it all and I liked the hole brochure. I don't think I have to make it more complicated now.

 

 

[malpaso]

2 hours ago, Bengalensis said:

 

 

 

He’s probably meant to be an architect.  But rolled drawings is more of an American architect trope, in 30+ years of the profession I’ve only transported drawings in a roll on a handful of occasions, there is a British Standard way to fold up drawings which is marginally simpler than the German DIN standard!

He’s obviously not the boss or he’d be wearing a bow tie in 1972! 😂

 

[keefr22]

21 minutes ago, malpaso said:

He’s probably meant to be an architect.

 

I thought he was a wallpaper salesman...!!

 

Keith

[Max Headroom]

Obvs not a boss. If he was, then he’d have a Triumph Stag, or at the very least a Granada GLX

 

Trevor 

[Black Knight]

On 25/07/2022 at 16:23, Black Knight said:

Of the 3 Wedges known to me;

1 was owned by a young new art & modern languages teacher at my school

1 was owned by a top Belfast architect. He also had a Lotus Europa. Chosen so he could open up plans on the engine cover at building sites - I kid you not, he told me and I saw him doing it

1 was owned by a very nice looking young lady who lived near me

He does rather look like that art & modern languages teacher at my school

Name of Thomas Bogle, aka Tatty Bog-Roll

[Max Headroom]

In the interests of nerdism, I feel compelled to draw your attention to to the myriad of colours used for the discs

 

http://www.creativetaxdiscs.co.uk/page102.html

 

You’re welcome 🤣

 

Trevor

[Bengalensis]

28 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

In the interests of nerdism, I feel compelled to draw your attention to to the myriad of colours used for the discs

 

http://www.creativetaxdiscs.co.uk/page102.html

 

You’re welcome 🤣

 

Trevor

It's interesting to nerd down into things  This is the disc I have printed for my car. I think it will be ok? And at the tiny size on the decals sheet you can't really read any of the fine scribbles anyway... A brownish 74 might be a good option too...

 

[klubman01]

I think the blue will stand out a bit more than the brown - a greater contrast with the orange paintwork.

Trevor

[Max Headroom]

It’s a bit of an urban myth, but putting a beer mat in place of a disc could be an option.

 

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1128709641/12-liverpool-football-beer-mat-coasters?gbraid=0AAAAADutTMefOU5MdBQIJi2NinkJIvu4j&gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_uk_en_gb_-home_and_living&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAjw6fyXBhBgEiwAhhiZsuxOkOvVu8pIV9ILGx9cXfH0EhHqBwHeJB9ex1DPnQreeRd2JxvmjRoCGZMQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_14821442085_125173007022_549119977872_pla-303628061699_m__1128709641engb_522801017&utm_custom2=14821442085&gbraid=0AAAAADutTMefOU5MdBQIJi2NinkJIvu4j&gclid=CjwKCAjw6fyXBhBgEiwAhhiZsuxOkOvVu8pIV9ILGx9cXfH0EhHqBwHeJB9ex1DPnQreeRd2JxvmjRoCGZMQAvD_BwE

 

Trevor

[Anteater]

6 hours ago, Bengalensis said:

And there was FRE 517K, on white/yellow plates. Staffordshire (up to 1974) 

 

 

Yeah!! A Staffordshire architect! From Leek, I assume? He wouldn't be from Stoke, for obvious reasons.    

[Black Knight]

3 hours ago, Bengalensis said:

It's interesting to nerd down into things  This is the disc I have printed for my car. I think it will be ok? And at the tiny size on the decals sheet you can't really read any of the fine scribbles anyway... A brownish 74 might be a good option too...

 

afair,  we just put the make of vehicle on the disc. 

In this case, just 'Bond' - no 'Bug'

One could (illegally) transfer the disc over to another vehicle of the same make, sometimes even taking the number plates over too

I knew one chap who had a business, several vans, all the same make with very similar number plates but only one tax disc

Also, lemon juice would bleach out the writing so you could bleach out the registration/make and fill it in with another. Then the Post office invented a bleach-proof ink specially for tax discs

[Bengalensis]

9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

afair,  we just put the make of vehicle on the disc. 

In this case, just 'Bond' - no 'Bug'

One could (illegally) transfer the disc over to another vehicle of the same make, sometimes even taking the number plates over too

I knew one chap who had a business, several vans, all the same make with very similar number plates but only one tax disc

Also, lemon juice would bleach out the writing so you could bleach out the registration/make and fill it in with another. Then the Post office invented a bleach-proof ink specially for tax discs

 

Or perhaps "Reliant"?

 

Ah, all those ways of getting under the radar, it was the same over here when we had various tax marks...

[Six97s]

I looked up FRE517K on the DVLA website and it's logged as a Reliant.   Last MOT was 2018, but it's showing as tax expired rather than SORN or scrapped.

[Bengalensis]

46 minutes ago, Six97s said:

I looked up FRE517K on the DVLA website and it's logged as a Reliant.   Last MOT was 2018, but it's showing as tax expired rather than SORN or scrapped.

So it may still be alive and well?

[keefr22]

46 minutes ago, Bengalensis said:

So it may still be alive and well?

 

Possibly, but it should have been SORNed (SORN = statutory off road notification) to actually still be legal. If it does still exist and the keeper didn't notify SORN, he/she could be fined for not taxing/SORNing it, even though it's over 40 years old and is now entitled to free tax, it still has to be done.

 

Keith

[Black Knight]

It could be in a museum. afaik vehicles in museums don't need to be SORNED. They have a bulk off-road system. 

Imagine doing all the vehicles at the Haynes Motor Museum, or Beaulieu

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, Bengalensis said:

Or perhaps "Reliant"?

Depends on what was on the 'Log book'

It would have said 'Bond' as that was the make