British license plate queries

[Bengalensis]

With work started on a 1/24 scale Bond Bug needing decals to be drawn I have to learn more about the British license plate system. This proved quickly to be no small task for a foreigner. Trying to decipher Wikipedia has helped some way, but being here on Britmodeller I really don't want to screw up my British plates on a British car, so help is needed.

 

I'm probably not the only one with queries on the topic, so feel free to use this thread if you want, I don't mind the discussion widening.

 

In my case I'm building a Bond Bug, a car made in 1970-74. My model will be of a fairly new car built in 1970-72 and still with its proud first owner a year or two later. I need to come up with a set of correct plausible plates, and as I understand it inside the registration system used 1963 to 1982.

 

This below is what the kit decals provide, and I'm very much in doubt. Yellow and black plates in combination? No suffix code letter after the number? Was this ever a possibility?

 

 

First question I have is black plates vs white/yellow plates:

If I interpret Wikipedia correctly white/yellow plates with black characters where mandatory from 1973, but were allowed to be used already from 1968? So could my Bond Bug have carried white/yellow plates, instead of black plates?

 

If so would that have been a plausible choice for a person buying a new Bond Bug? Would such a person go for the latest plate style allowed?

 

Could it ever have carried black/yellow plates in combination, without the law getting angry?

 

Second question is to come up with a plausibly correct number:

As understand it something like "FEV 385" would not be correct in my case. It would have been "FEV 385 J" in Aug 70-July 71, "FEV 385 K" in Aug 71-July 72 and "FEV 385 L" in Aug 72-July 73. Do I understand correctly?

 

Could "FEV 38 K" be possible on my car, with only two numbers?

 

Where in Britain would this happy Bond Bug owner most likely live? Does the letters "FEV" indicate a special area in 1971-73?

 

And could it be only two letters during this time frame, like "FE 385 K" or "FE 38 K"? Somewhere here Wikipedia keeps on loosing me, or vice verse...

 

So, all in all, I need help to make up a correct and plausible registration for my Bond Bug.

 

Now that I think of it I guess I'll have to come up with a tax disc as well...

[Heather Kay]

It can get a bit confusing, and I’m not going to try and answer in detail.

 

Essentially, the white/yellow with black lettering (often raised in relief - scope for 3D print there?) was mandated as you say. Earlier registrations would have had the black plates from new, but it would have been very much down to the dealership and the local licensing authority. The best bet is to find a real car and copy it, though there’s no guarantee the owner hasn’t updated the plates in the subsequent years.

 

I do, however, have a couple of photos of Bugs at a meeting a few years ago. They may be of help to you.

 

Bugtastic! by Heather Kavanagh, on Flickr
 

Click through for a few more images. You’ll note a fair mixture of plate styles.

[Toe]

17 minutes ago, Bengalensis said:

 

 

Second question is to come up with a plausibly correct number:

As understand it something like "FEV 385" would not be correct in my case. It would have been "FEV 385 J" in Aug 70-July 71, "FEV 385 K" in Aug 71-July 72 and "FEV 385 L" in Aug 72-July 73. Do I understand correctly?

 

Could "FEV 38 K" be possible on my car, with only two numbers?

 

 

 

That is correct, though neither appears to be in the records of the the DVLA via a vehicle check but that maybe because it's been so long since these plates have been on the road so to speak The 2 numbers such as 38K could easily be plausible, even 1 number is

 

The plates you have on the decal sheet without the letter last are pretty old, predating the "A" suffix so pre 1963 so not much good in this case

[cmatthewbacon]

This should give you a good idea of plate styles and numbers applicable to a Bug!

 

 

best,

M.

[Chimpion]

The standard format in this time frame was 3 letters (the second two indicated where the vehicle was first registered, although the only way to decipher the two-letter code is to look it up in a table!) followed by 1, 2 or 3 letters, followed by the year suffix. I think the year ran from 1st September to 31st August, not 1st August to 31st July. Two letters were not allowed with the suffix year plates (but they were on the pre-1963 plates).

By the time the Bond bug was released most new cars carried white and yellow plates.

 

[klubman01]

The suffix letter on registration plates was introduced in 1963 with the letter A.  In mid-'67, the system was changed slightly with the suffix E changing to F, which then continued until mid -'68 and the change to G.  Subsequent changes were then made each year.  With me so far?

From the beginning of 1973 reflective plates (white front/yellow rear) became mandatory.  This was when the suffix letter was L.  Previous to 1973, reflective plates were legal but not mandatory. 

Your FEV decals use EV as the area identifier which, according to my research, is somewhere in Essex, with E signifying Essex and V indicating the part of Essex where the vehicle was first registered.  I could not find any region using FV as an identifier.

If you opted for FEV 385L, then you have the option of black plates pre-January '73, or reflective plates post January '73.

I hope this helps in some way.

Trevor

[johnlambert]

It is worth noting that in the UK it is legal to display a registration mark that is older than the car to which it is fitted, but not a registration mark issued after first registration.

 

Until (I think) some time in the 1980s first registration was taken as the date imported, so an older car could be exported (and lose its registration) and then re-imported to gain a newer registration.  These days the registration issued is related to the age of the vehicle (when I was younger there were a lot of army personnel who lived in my road, quite a few were previously stationed in West Germany and brought cars over with them, which I'd see change from German to British 'plates).

 

Also remember that some letters were never used as age indicators.  I and O presumably because of their similarity to 1 and 0; Q was reserved for cars where the age couldn't be determined, usually kit cars built from a number of donor vehicles; Z was never used but I don't know the reason.  Have I missed anything?

[pigsty]

2 hours ago, Chimpion said:

The standard format in this time frame was 3 letters (...) followed by 1, 2 or 3 letters, followed by the year suffix

That's always three letters, 1 2 or 3 numbers, and the suffix letter.  And there's only one gap in the plate: it would be FEV 385L.

 

1 hour ago, klubman01 said:

The suffix letter on registration plates was introduced in 1963 with the letter A.  In mid-'67, the system was changed slightly with the suffix E changing to F, which then continued until mid -'68 and the change to G.  Subsequent changes were then made each year

After A, all changes were made once a year except for the E suffix in 1967.  A was introduced in February 1963, and B followed on 1 January 1964, but before long car dealers were complaining about everyone not wanting their new cars until just after Christmas so the government decided to make the year start on 1 August.  That was done in 1967, so the E suffix ran from 1 January to 31 July, then F started on 1 August 1967 and went to 31 July 1968.  The system itself wasn't changed, only the timing, and it stayed like that until the run-up to the new system in 2001, which thankfully is much too late for your Bond Bug.  (Incidentally, it makes E-reg cars a relative rarity, and as I'm E-reg myself I can pretend that I'm more valuable than I really am.)

 

As the Bug was built from March 1970 to May 1974 the range of suffix letters is H, J, K, L and M.  (I wasn't used; nor were O, Q, U and Z.)  The reflective plates (white at the front, yellow at the back) were an option from 1967 and standard from 1 January 1973, so any Bug apart from an M-reg one could have either style, although if it was L-reg it'd be more likely to have the reflective ones.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the Owners' Club knows every registration ever applied to a Bug (there were less than 2500 of them) and could even tell you what style plates they all used.  But of course you can always make up your own, or the plate you'd have wanted yourself.

 

Your next challenge is the lettering.  Since the 2001 system came in, number plates are all meant to use one standard style, which was developed from styles that were common in the earlier system.  But there was a lot of variation back then, and that's before you think about whether the plate was printed or assembled out of separate letters or just painted.  The correct styles have eluded a lot of decal companies, but the ones you've got are pretty close to authentic.

 

Finally, [pedant mode on] it's licence, not license, but in fact cars in the UK have registrations and it's the drivers who hold licences. [pedant mode off]

[stever219]

45 minutes ago, johnlambert said:

It is worth noting that in the UK it is legal to display a registration mark that is older than the car to which it is fitted, but not a registration mark issued after first registration.

 

Until (I think) some time in the 1980s first registration was taken as the date imported, so an older car could be exported (and lose its registration) and then re-imported to gain a newer registration.  These days the registration issued is related to the age of the vehicle (when I was younger there were a lot of army personnel who lived in my road, quite a few were previously stationed in West Germany and brought cars over with them, which I'd see change from German to British 'plates).

 

Also remember that some letters were never used as age indicators.  I and O presumably because of their similarity to 1 and 0; Q was reserved for cars where the age couldn't be determined, usually kit cars built from a number of donor vehicles; Z was never used but I don't know the reason.  Have I missed anything?

I well remember collecting VAT and Car Tax on behalf of Her Majesty on vast numbers of Minus and Chevrolet Camaros amongst others being imported by personnel from, mainly, BAOR and RAFG.

 

Z was used on Irish plates at the time, but since the changes introduced by the B Liar government in 2000 it now also appears on UK mainland plates.

[johnlambert]

Thanks Steve, I had a feeling Z was something to do with Northern Ireland.

[pigsty]

12 minutes ago, stever219 said:

Z was used on Irish plates at the time

Lord yes, that reminds me - all this stuff about suffix plates doesn't apply in Northern Ireland.  That part of the country has its own system that never shows the car's age, and the three-letter group always includes an I or a Z.  If anyone over there was daft enough to buy a Bug it would have used that style of plate - but not the options in your kit.  (And there must have been one or two overseas sales ...)

[johnlambert]

Oh yes and Isle of Man number plates, which are British style but issued by their government and usually have the letters "MAN" or "MN".

[junglierating]

You couldvuse personnalised plates ....like you first middle surname and age ....eg.

John david smith aged 37.....JDS 37  simple 

[malpaso]

Some areas didn't introduce the suffix straight away, though probably not by the time of the Bond Bug.

 

You aren't allowed to put a new dated plate on an old car, for obvious reasons.  Occasional examples exist due to local licencing errors?  But older plates are often put on newer cars, especially if they spell a word or name. 

 

FEV 385 is perfectly feasible either on black plates for earlier bugs or more likely white front / yellow rear.  Such undated number letters can be transferred to any car, I have one (on reserve atm) that was on my 2007 Verso having been originally issued to an aunt in the 50s on her Austin A40 but then continuously transferred to each of her cars as she didn't want to learn a new registration! 

[Black Knight]

49 minutes ago, pigsty said:

Lord yes, that reminds me - all this stuff about suffix plates doesn't apply in Northern Ireland.  That part of the country has its own system that never shows the car's age, and the three-letter group always includes an I or a Z.  If anyone over there was daft enough to buy a Bug it would have used that style of plate - but not the options in your kit.  (And there must have been one or two overseas sales ...)

Actually N.I. plates do show the age

All N.I. counties still use the two letters allocated back in about 1904. Each county has 3 or 4 of these two-letter blocks A couple of new 2-letter block have been introduced in the recent past to cater for counties with high vehicle registrations

The first letter of the 3-letter block is the year letter

The Year letter changes about January to March each year. Its not 100% fixed. It also depends if the DVLA has run up to 9999 in the 4-number code, Certain numbers are not issued, such as 1 to 99, In counties of very high registrations the year letter may change twice in one year, but I've never known it to change three times in a year

eg Co. Down has (amongst several other blocks) I J.  K I J  is 1977/78, K being the 1977/78 year letter

N.I. changed to 3-letter & 3 or 4 number codes in 1971. With the 3-letter code preceding the numbers, eg K I J 1844 

Black with either silver or white letter number plates, front and rear, were officially allowed until December 1973 but a 'blind eye' was used until about 1975/76 when the MOT test was introduced here

N.I.  plates are popular with mainlanders due to a/ it can hide the year of the vehicle to those who don't know our system and b/ the 3-letters and numbers can spell out a name easier than most mainland number plates can

A Q plate is issued for any vehicle of unknown or questionable provenance or year. My No.1 son has a 1977 Cadillac on a GB Q plate, But he has paperwork to prove it year and when he re-registers it for here it will get a 1977 N.I. County (whichever) registration

 

PS. I knew 3 people who had the Cheese Wedge here

PPS. Not all old plates are transferable. The one on my 1930 Austin 7 is not transferable, not that I'd want to do that

PPPS there used to be a trade in re-registering GB cars in N.I. then registering them in GB again and the car got a new year GB registration

eg; a case in 1996 known to me; 1960s VW Bug, GB no. plate, re-register in N.I. gets N.I. no, plate, then register in GB again and got a 1996 no, plate. As at that time any vehicle moving from GB to NI or NI to GB was classed as an 'imported' vehicle

[keefr22]

5 hours ago, pigsty said:

Finally, [pedant mode on] it's licence, not license, but in fact cars in the UK have registrations and it's the drivers who hold licences. [pedant mode off]

 

We called them registration marks which were placed on llcence plates when I worked in DVLA....  (which was a long time ago!)

 

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

PPS. Not all old plates are transferable. The one on my 1930 Austin 7 is not transferable, not that I'd want to do that

 

Not that it makes any difference to a model, it used to be that the vehicle that the plate is to be transferred off had to hold a valid MOT. I guess now that vehicles over 40 years old don't need MOT's that might have gone by the board, unless you have to get the car tested before you can transfer the plate?  The point was to ensure that the vehicle actually existed and wasn't just a pile of rust in a field somewhere!

 

7 hours ago, klubman01 said:

Your FEV decals use EV as the area identifier which, according to my research, is somewhere in Essex, with E signifying Essex and V indicating the part of Essex where the vehicle was first registered. 

 

I'd guess it's somewhere near Boreham as quite a few works Escorts used EV, including quite a few FEV's  

 

@Bengalensis - if you want a cure for insomnia, the complete official rules for the format and display of number plates etc can be found in this document;

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1068365/inf104-vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates.pdf

 

Keith

[klubman01]

9 minutes ago, keefr22 said:

I'd guess it's somewhere near Boreham as quite a few works Escorts used EV, including quite a few FEV's  

 

@Bengalensis - if you want a cure for insomnia, the complete official rules for the format and display of number plates etc can be found in this document;

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1068365/inf104-vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates.pdf

 

Keith

Of course, FEV 1H, the London-Mexico winner!

Trevor

[rob Lyttle]

30 minutes ago, keefr22 said:

if you want a cure for insomnia, the complete official rules for the format and display of number plates etc can be found in this document;

Thanks but no, I'm good, Keefr..... 😂👍

 

This has been a truly enjoyable and entertaining thread, I gotta say. 

Bet you're glad you asked @Bengalensis😎

[Neddy]

The poor OP must be thoroughly confused by now - this reads a bit like explaining the rules of cricket to a non-UK resident! 

[roginoz]

OI !! I'm a non-UK resident, and I know the rules of cricket !!    :o}

[psdavidson]

8 hours ago, roginoz said:

I'm a non-UK resident, and I know the rules of cricket

And just to even it up, I'm a UK resident who doesn't

[keefr22]

I think, to summarise for @Bengalensis - 

 

1. Up until 1/1/1973 cars would use silver/white letters and numbers on black plates.

 

2. These would from a dealer before 1966 be generally three letters/numbers - in 1963 the A sufffix was introduced which changed to a prefix when the usuable prefixes ran out. However historically different combinations of numbers and letters were used, the first being A 1 which I believe is still in use (on a Smart car in London?). So you could have  ABC 123A, then ABC 123A. Then when the available prefixes ran out they changed to the current AA22 AAA format. This also introduced a new font style as the old one was too large to allow the combination to fit on the regulation plate size.

 

3. Any 'personal plate' can be transferred onto any car as long as it doesn't make such car look newer than it's date of first registration. It's what I do on most of my models - I 'buy' some kind of personal plate relevant to the car or myself, keeping within the 'rules' of display. A real example seen round here recently was an Audi TT with the reg MU51 CAL

 

4. Black plates were until 2015 only legal on cars registered pre 1/1/73. However the Dept of Transport made a mistake that year when they introduced the rule that vehicles over 40 years old didn't need an MOT test and they allowed such vehicles to also use black licence plates! This was changed in 2021 to say that only vehicles registerd before 1/1/1980 can display black plates. However any age of car can use white/yellow plates but it would be a strange owner that chose to do that on say a 1930's Bentley! 

 

So for a model - any vehicle first registered up until 31/12/79 can now use white/silver letters on black plates front and rear. If you're not building a period correct model just say it's a restored present day classic! 

 

Any car model later than this can use any combination of letters/numbers on a white front/yellow rear plate, as long as it's not making the car look newer than it is. So on my 350Z model I used 350 KR on reflective white/yellow plates as the car postdates one that can legally use black plates. This isn't to say that plate actually exists or was ever issued in real life mind, I just made it up!! 

 

There are standard fonts, spacings and registration plate sizes that 'must' by law be used. However there are exceptions that appear to have a 'blind eye turned' to them. Such as present day works rally cars registered in the UK, Mitsubishi Lancer Evos used to have smaller than regulation front plates to prevent cooling problems, etc. Also, I believe 'stick on' plates are now technically illegal but you still see plenty of cars using them.

 

One final thing is that DVLA can withold the issue of a plate if it is deemed to be 'offensive' or 'abusive'. 

 

To my mind, if you stick to these 'rules' on a model you'd have to have a real 'anorak' pick you up on it and say it's wrong!! 

 

HTH Jorgen

 

Keith

 

 

[Bengalensis]

@Heather Kay @Toe @cmatthewbacon @Chimpion @klubman01 @johnlambert @junglierating @malpaso @Black Knight @keefr22 @rob Lyttle @Neddy @roginoz @psdavidson

 

Thank you all very much so far! I do have a habit every now and then to make simple things as complicated as possible, this being one such occasion. You have given me exactly what I was hoping for, and also made sure it's not boring! The system is indeed very confusing, but it is now becoming a little less confusing. A little.

 

A reason for diving into this is that when I build a model I really like to travel in my mind back to the time and place where it happens as I sit by my bench. Not only to get the correct detail on the car, but just as much to get a feeling for the environment and people around it there and then. In this case the guy who bought this thing and drives around in it happily a year or two later. Who was he actually? Would he, who choose to buy this cool but quirky car, have opted to get the modern white/yellow plates, soon to be mandatory, just because they were the new thing, or were ordinary black plates fine for him? Where would such a guy have lived in Britain? In other words, are there area codes I should avoid? That's a little bit of what goes on in my mind as I build these things. My medicines are not working, as you can see...

 

I have picked up several notes from all your answers. So let's see where I am right now with a 1970-72 Bond Bug driving around in 1971-74:

 

- The car could have the older black plates, or the newer white/yellow plates.

 

- The plates could read "FEV 385K", for a car registered Aug 71-July 72, or the K changes up and down every year; Wikipedia year identifiers.

 

- There is a gap between FEV and 385K, no other gap.

 

- The plates could possibly also read "FEV 38K", or even "FEV 8K".

 

- The number could be anything between 1-999, it's just a number. But chances are greater it would be three figures rather than two, and one figure would be less likely.

 

- In "FEV" the last two letters "EV" place the car in a certain local area on the date of registration and probably where the owner lived. I think I can decipher those from Wikipedia Pre-2001 codes, EV would be Essex in 1971-72 and FV would be Blackpool, for example. I assume there might be some regions in Britain where this quirky new car is less likely to have found a proud owner...

 

- The first letter "F" is just there to give more plate combinations in the region "EV". It could be for example "DEV" or "GEV" in the EV region. I'm really unsure here...

 

So please feel free to comment on this, or pick it to pieces. 😎

[keefr22]

To take your points in order

 

- yes, either style of plates as the owner (registered keeper actually, there's no ownership records in the UK!) wished.

 

- yes. Then it would be FEV 385L the next year, then 385M, etc. The suffix wouldn't 'change down' ie go back to J - if I get what you mean.

 

-yes, only one gap.

 

-yes

 

- with a prefix or suffix it would be far more likely to be 3 letters/numbers, but not exclusively. I had a Mk1 Escort first registered as UNY 6G....

 

- "I assume there might be some regions in Britain where this quirky new car is less likely to have found a proud owner..." tbh, I wouldn't have thought so, there are quirky people all over the UK...!! I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but there were often instances where people would buy a new car hundreds of miles from where they lived just to get the local identifier on their reg. plates.

 

- yes. I mentioned works Escort rally cars having FEV marks - they also had BEV, REV, MEV etc. 

 

HTH

 

Keith

 

 

[johnlambert]

Bond Bugs were made at Bond's factory near Preston and at Reliant's factory in Tamworth, Staffordshire, although I imagine most cars would have been registered by the dealers and I can't find a dealer list at the moment.

 

The Bug was close in price to a new Mini at the time, so it was not expensive but not necessarily a sensible purchase.  I think the owner would likely want the new-style number plates to show off his (or her, or their) new car.  In my mind it seems more like a car for a flashy, urban person, not someone from a poor, rural or industrial location.  You probably can't go wrong with a London registration.