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Avro Manchester Bomber Instrument Panel 1:1


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Thanks. I still haven't been to the Kinema. Nor the tea shop in a few months now. One day....

I saw that film a few years ago. It took me back to doing B/F's myself. I think my last one was over 15 years ago and 3000 miles away,

The thing is, you never really forget. Maybe it's muscle memory or something. Put me next to the right Aircraft, & it all comes flooding back.

Tap this, wipe that, look there, check level, set switches etc etc. Training and repetition probably though.

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5 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

It certainly does. I love that framed Spitfire Instrument panel too.

 

Should be the instrument fitter on the before flight inspection. He'd also make sure the instruments were clean and lights working.

 

4 hours ago, alzictorini said:

Evening Pete

 

Thanks buddy, the Spit panel is in Kinema in the woods, Woodall spa, outside screen 4 if you are passing.

 

You are correct about the clock, have you and Harold seen this. Spit Service

 

enjoy

Carl, is an instrument fitter also an aircraftsman, or are they different trades?

 

Harold

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6 hours ago, Sergeant said:

Carl, is an instrument fitter also an aircraftsman, or are they different trades?

I'll do the honours, I'm up early this morning. 

Aircraftsman is  the basic RAF rank but with various grades.

We used to have LAC (Leading Aircraftsman) SAC (Senior Aircraftsman) & JT (Junior Technician) Then up to Corporal. It may have changed by now.

The trades denote your work. Engines, Airframe, Electrical etc. You could be trained or signed up to do more than one i.e. Airframe & Engines for instance.

 

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The ranks have changed, they have done away with what lasted 100 years and gone with totally gender neutral naming.....

Air recruit - was Aircraftsman (AC)

Air Specialist (Class 2) - was Leading Aircraftsman (LAC)

Air Specialist (Class 1) - was Senior Aircraftsman (SAC)

Technician - was Junior Technician (JT) (Technician is an additional spec given to AS1 where they have shown ability to work unsupervised like the old JT role) 

Then the traditional NCO ranks.

 

 

 

 

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On 2/5/2023 at 11:04 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

I'll do the honours, I'm up early this morning. 

Aircraftsman is  the basic RAF rank but with various grades.

We used to have LAC (Leading Aircraftsman) SAC (Senior Aircraftsman) & JT (Junior Technician) Then up to Corporal. It may have changed by now.

The trades denote your work. Engines, Airframe, Electrical etc. You could be trained or signed up to do more than one i.e. Airframe & Engines for instance.

 

 

On 2/6/2023 at 1:34 AM, treker_ed said:

The ranks have changed, they have done away with what lasted 100 years and gone with totally gender neutral naming.....

Air recruit - was Aircraftsman (AC)

Air Specialist (Class 2) - was Leading Aircraftsman (LAC)

Air Specialist (Class 1) - was Senior Aircraftsman (SAC)

Technician - was Junior Technician (JT) (Technician is an additional spec given to AS1 where they have shown ability to work unsupervised like the old JT role) 

Then the traditional NCO ranks.

 

 

 

 

 

On 2/5/2023 at 11:06 PM, alzictorini said:

BMs

 

An Aircraftsman is a generic term for a person serving in the RAF, ie LAC stands for Leading Aircraftsman.

 

Morning Pete, ha

 

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Harold, I'm no expert, but from what I've read I can maybe help with the following.

AC2 was the basic rank when you joined. 

Promotion to LAC came after basic training and he then went into flying training.

T/Sgt was when he passed his flying training tests. You 'got your stripes'. Then more flying training.

T.F.S. is not one I'm familiar with but I'm guessing T/ Flight Sgt. All Aircrew by this point were NCO's or Officers.

Possibly promoted to Pilot Officer (the lowest Officer rank) on final completion of training or posting to a Squadron.

Once operational or after say, five trips, promotion to Flying Officer may have been the norm in his squadron. It was wartime. Promotion could be fast.

 

I hope this helps in some small way. 

The lure of becoming Aircrew was strong. More money and stripes on your arm. Loss rates were mostly kept from them.

I've read that after a raid where the loss rate was about ten out of fifteen Aircraft, the survivors were instantly sent on two weeks leave to keep it quiet.

Bless them all :poppy:

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Harold, I'm no expert, but from what I've read I can maybe help with the following.

AC2 was the basic rank when you joined. 

Promotion to LAC came after basic training and he then went into flying training.

T/Sgt was when he passed his flying training tests. You 'got your stripes'. Then more flying training.

T.F.S. is not one I'm familiar with but I'm guessing T/ Flight Sgt. All Aircrew by this point were NCO's or Officers.

Possibly promoted to Pilot Officer (the lowest Officer rank) on final completion of training or posting to a Squadron.

Once operational or after say, five trips, promotion to Flying Officer may have been the norm in his squadron. It was wartime. Promotion could be fast.

 

I hope this helps in some small way. 

The lure of becoming Aircrew was strong. More money and stripes on your arm. Loss rates were mostly kept from them.

I've read that after a raid where the loss rate was about ten out of fifteen Aircraft, the survivors were instantly sent on two weeks leave to keep it quiet.

Bless them all :poppy:

 

 

 

 

Thank you, Pete. I never met my uncle because he died before I was born. However, based on what his mother (my grandmother) told me Harold probably would have wanted to be a pilot no matter the risk. He was a dairy farmers son from the State of Missouri and all he wanted to do in life was to be a pilot.

 

When Pearl Harbor was bombed on 7 December 1941, she said Harold wanted to join the U.S. Army Air Force, but the Army did not have openings for pilots until later in the war. So Harold went to Canada and joined the RCAF. Based on his enlistment in March 1942 Britain and the RAF had been in the war 2-years and 6-months. I could not find yearly loss information but based on an excerpt below I believe Britain needed pilots and that gave Harold an opportunity to fulfill his dream.

 

A total of 57,205 members of RAF Bomber Command or airmen flying on attachment to RAF Bomber Command were killed or posted missing in World War II.[2] It was not unusual for the heavy bombers to complete their operational sortie and return home with members of their crew dead or dying aboard the aircraft,[210] or with the rear-gun turret blown off.[211]

 

Harold

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On 06/02/2023 at 13:04, Sergeant said:

 

Carl, speaking of rank and trade, if you would allow me to ask a few more questions of you, Pete, and Ed. I was in the U.S. Navy and U.S. Army from 1963 to 1975, so my knowledge of RAF and RCAF is limited to what I have read on the Internet and learned on this Britmodeller Forum.

 

Recently Carl with the help of an officer friend of his helped me locate my Uncle Harold's service record from RAF Coningsby. You can see by the dates on the document that Harold was only in the RCAF and RAF for two-years and nine months and yet he went from AC2 to F.O. Lieutenant in that short time. How is that possible?

 

I served during the Vietnam War and battlefield promotions and commissions were common. However, it is hard for me to understand how a person could qualify to be a Lancaster pilot in such a short time.

 

Harold

 

Hi Harold

 

Not sure if you have more than that cursory summary document. I did a quick check and your uncle's "complete" RCAF records are available online for free at ancestry.ca (you need a free ancestry account to view I think). Just put in his last name and choose "air" under the "force" dropdown and he shows up. Photos and everything. You can track him through his training and promotions and postings etc.

 

The RCAF promoted rapidly, regularly and posthumously in ww2. You can learn more about his training by google searching for British Commonwealth Air Training Plan, and for the free book from our govt called Aerodrome of Democracy (a pdf now). There are sites dedicated to the BCATP. 

 

https://www.ancestry.ca/search/collections/9145/

 

Edited by marvinneko
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1 hour ago, marvinneko said:

 

Hi Harold

 

Not sure if you have more than that cursory summary document. I did a quick check and your uncle's "complete" RCAF records are available online for free at ancestry.ca (you need a free ancestry account to view I think). Just put in his last name and choose "air" under the "force" dropdown and he shows up. Photos and everything. You can track him through his training and promotions and postings etc.

 

The RCAF promoted rapidly, regularly and posthumously in ww2. You can learn more about his training by google searching for British Commonwealth Air Training Plan, and for the free book from our govt called Aerodrome of Democracy (a pdf now). There are sites dedicated to the BCATP. 

 

https://www.ancestry.ca/search/collections/9145/

 

Thank you, David. My wife and I spent some time this evening looking at Harold's documents on Ancestry.ca and found several were things we had never seen before like the Census records, a picture of my mother when she was in her 20's and information about my grandparents and great grandparents. We learned that Harold was living at the Y.M.C.A. in Windsor, Ontario when he enlisted and had been in the 128th Field Artillery of the Missouri Army National Guard for five years before in joined the RCAF.

 

Harold

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  • 3 months later...

Good evening BM's

 

Sorry for being away so long but with the move of house and the building of my new workshop its been work stop on the Manc panel however, I've started again and work has been on the panel itself.  I got to a point where I needed to start cutting out all the locating holes and bolt holes etc. This was done on Friday:

 

20230519-184304.jpg

 

Once all the items were removed,I started to spray the panel:

 

20230520-203156.jpg

 

3 coats later:

 

20230521-181402.jpg

 

Its starting to look like an instrument panel now!!

 

20230521-170810.jpg

 

I need to make some spacers for a few of the gauges and paint up the gauge ident panel but, its almost there:

 

20230521-173944.jpg

 

Ill keep you updated

 

enjoy

 

 

 

 

Edited by alzictorini
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Welcome back my friend, it's good to see you again. Looking forward to watching you put this project all together.

 

I stopped working on my Lancaster model for a while to take care of some things around the house. Then I became owner of a 4-month-old Australian Labradoodle puppy who demands a lot of attention, and I don't dare let him into my modeling studio. He is like a child; he wants to put everything in his mouth.

 

Harold

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Evening BM's

 

Thanks for the comments from the regulars, hope you guys are all doing well?

 

So for the last day or so I've been completing the name plates (ident items for switches and the gauges). I 3D print these plates with my .2 nozzle which gives me very fine print detail. Its then just a matter of sanding smooth then painting.

 

20230523-094705.jpg

 

Once blacked I simply press in white clay:

 

20230523-100756.jpg

 

Once the excess is cleaned away I over spray with varnish:

 

20230523-153353.jpg

 

Here are a few of the items in their positions but not riveted in place yet:

 

20230523-153200.jpg

 

20230523-153220.jpg

 

20230523-153243.jpg

 

Hope you picked up some tips

 

I'm away for a week so next update in a week.

 

Enjoy

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I read the whole thread. This is incredible work! I'm shocked by just how good it is.

 

Have you considered turning your attention to 20's and 50's with the king's head on them? 🤑🤑🤑

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Lovely to see this back. It really is looking stunning now it's all coming together.

I'm lost with the instrument layout though, it's totally different from everything I've known.

I can see why standardisation was required!

 

Ian

 

Ian

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