XP-51B?

[ColFord]

If your modelling subject aircraft is 137352, which was basically a P-51 airframe originally with the 4 x 20mm cannon wing, with the Merlin and 4 bladed prop added up front and the revised radiator assembly with the 'angled' intake for the radiator, then the logical starting point for the basic cockpit layout would be that for the P-51 - no suffix.  Being a prototype/test airframe, in all likelyhood it may have additional instrumentation added in various locations in the cockpit to monitor various aspects of the engine and associated ancillaries during the flight test program.  I've seen photographs of other early Allison engine Mustangs involved in various test program flying with both NAA and the RAF/A&AEE which had additional monitoring instruments placed on top and to one side of the cockpit coaming and in other locations where they would fall within the regular instrument scans of the pilot during flight.

 

So your starting point is the cockpit layout of the P-51.

 

Following are from the NAA/USAAF P-51 Pilot's Manual.  So layout is typical for USAAF P-51.     RAF Mustang Mk.IA would have detail difference eg RAF mounted items such as standard RAF camera control box in different location on right cockpit wall, etc.

 

P-51 Cockpit Left by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

P-51 Cockpit Panel by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

P-51 Cockpit Right by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

P-51 Cockpit Right Rear by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

P-51 Cockpit Left Floor by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

 

 

 

 

[Bozothenutter]

THANK YOU!

[Bozothenutter]

@ColFord and others.

Any way I can get a hold of a P-51/A parts catalog?

i'm boxing my own gear wells, and have bitten of more than I.....oh well....

[ColFord]

As per the long running Allison Engine Mustang thread in the WWII Aircraft sub-forum here, given 99.9% of the time the main inner gear doors of the Allison engine Mustangs were up and locked when the aircraft was on the ground, there is not much to see through the remaining parts of the opening.  Only time when they would be down on the ground is if they had been manually unlocked by ground crew and pulled open so they could do required maintenance in the gear wells.  I think the relevant Erection and Maintenance Manual might have better and more useable photos/information, I will check what I've got.

 

[stevehnz]

As far as I can recall, possibly from the same thread that @ColFord has referred to, the inner gear doors locking up was the same for the P-51B/C but changed on the D to be hydraulically activated so could drop down as hydraulic pressure bled off. I hope this is so as its what I've been telling people for ages.  

Steve.

[Bozothenutter]

10 hours ago, ColFord said:

As per the long running Allison Engine Mustang thread in the WWII Aircraft sub-forum here, given 99.9% of the time the main inner gear doors of the Allison engine Mustangs were up and locked when the aircraft was on the ground, there is not much to see through the remaining parts of the opening.  Only time when they would be down on the ground is if they had been manually unlocked by ground crew and pulled open so they could do required maintenance in the gear wells.  I think the relevant Erection and Maintenance Manual might have better and more useable photos/information, I will check what I've got.

 

Looking for the layout of the leading edge beam(?) and the transition to the engine bulkhead.

[ColFord]

I've gone thru the Pilot's Notes, Erection & Maintenance Manuals and the Parts Catalogues for the range of Allison engine Mustangs from Mustang I thru to P-51A.  The level of detail contained across that suite of documentation does not probably provide what you are looking for.  Following are examples of the type of information conveyed on the wheel well area across those documents. In the main they are largely composed of generic exploded view type diagrams/technical drawings, then detailed diagrams/technical drawings of specific components broken down as may be required for servicing eg undercarriage strut, gear door latching mechanism, with photographs used sparingly.

 

P-51 PC Fig 17 Landing Gear Systems by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

P-51A E&M P109 by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

P-51A E&M P110 by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

P-51A PC P139 by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

A36A E&M P84 by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

 

 

[Bozothenutter]

thanks again @ColFord, I have some of the stuff, but figuring out what to find where...🙄

Might actually go for the closed main doors.... as I said, I'm still chewing.

[Bozothenutter]

Ok, I have downloaded a extremely large bunch of what looks like blueprints for the Mustang (unsure what type)

two folders called P-51_blue 1 and _blue 2.

In these are folders marked A-Z.

the header page is: "Index of drawings on microfilm", date is 1945, so I'm assuming it's for the -D.

is there something similar for the Allison Mustangs?

 

[Bozothenutter]

Found two images of one of the XP-51B 's wrongly labeled as regular B's on Getty images.

[ColFord]

10 hours ago, Bozothenutter said:

Ok, I have downloaded a extremely large bunch of what looks like blueprints for the Mustang (unsure what type)

two folders called P-51_blue 1 and _blue 2.

In these are folders marked A-Z.

the header page is: "Index of drawings on microfilm", date is 1945, so I'm assuming it's for the -D.

is there something similar for the Allison Mustangs?

 

There are full factory blueprint drawing sets for all models of the Mustang still in existence.  There were a range of different sets of drawing produced, both for original manufacturing purposes then additional for use in repair and maintenance documentation.  However, the earliest ones covering the Allison engine Mustangs are rather rare - as the early Mustangs went out of service and were replaced by the later Merlin engine models, a lot of the early technical documentation was discarded.  AirCorps Library in the USA probably has the most complete collection, and they are currently digitising and indexing full sets that were savd from NAA post-War.

 

However, a large number of sub assemblies and components on the later model Mustangs were still the same as on the early Allison engine Mustangs.  On the factory drawings and blueprint, if the prefix on the drawing of an assembly or component has the prefix 73, 83, 91, 97 or 99 it indicates it is a component or assembly carried through from the Allison engined Mustang versions.

 

Following are two examples of blueprints/technical drawings where you can see the model origin is from the NA-83 - second production batch of the Mustang I - and the various information blocks giving details of when drawn, changes and other models and production blocks of Mustangs the component was also used on.

 

NA-83 Checklist by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

NA-83 Bracket by Colin Ford, on Flickr

 

Somewhere within the downloads you have obtained should be the sections covering the undercarriage bays and the multitude of components that are included in them.  The detail - particularly across the different components eg metal work brackets, ribs, stringers, hydraulic lines, electrical connectors, supplier provided sub-components  - may be spread across multiple sections of the blueprint set.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by ColFord
Typo

[FloydWerner]

Let me put a bug in your ear, Halberd Models.  Just saying.  

Floyd

[Bozothenutter]

5 hours ago, FloydWerner said:

Let me put a bug in your ear, Halberd Models.  Just saying.  

Floyd

I know...it's a race!

[Bozothenutter]

Found a pic in the old D&S book that is captioned as the XP-51B instrument panel, but the 'bomb release' label makes me think this is an A-36?

[ColFord]

11 hours ago, Bozothenutter said:

Found a pic in the old D&S book that is captioned as the XP-51B instrument panel, but the 'bomb release' label makes me think this is an A-36?

Working from memory of discussions many years ago, the photo in the D&S book reflects the other XP-51B prototype that was the one that was closer in appearance to the eventual P-51B/C configuration and that also implemented the 3" wing drop and wooden 'flat' floor to the cockpit, the revised wing armament of the 4 x 0.50in HMGs, underfuselage radiator 'dog house' closer to final configuration and the provision for the underwing hardpoints set up for either drop tanks or stores/bombs.  So not the initial XP-51B prototype that was based off a NA-91 P-51 airframe and wing.

 

[Bozothenutter]

37352 and 37421 in pictures neither have the lowered wing?

Was this added later?

Or do you mean 12093, the first B-1-NA ?

[ColFord]

On reviewing my notes and sources, 41-37352 and 41-37421 neither had the lowered wing or other features of the eventual P-51B-1-NA.  The photo in the D&S book is of the first P51B-1-NA 43-12093 which was used by NAA as the production prototype and test article for the full set of changes proposed for the P-51B/C line.  As a result of its use by NAA it was also the source of the early set of photographs taken at NAA for use in Pilot's Notes, E&M Manuals and other initial documentation sets that had to be produced to support the introducton of the new model of Mustang into service.

 

[Bozothenutter]

Ok, down the rabbit hole I go....

Got myself a yearly subscription to aircorpslibrary......

If I don't post here after a month  come get me...

[Bozothenutter]

On 9/28/2022 at 1:54 AM, FloydWerner said:

Let me put a bug in your ear, Halberd Models.  Just saying.  

Floyd

Have recieved what they've produced so far, beautiful kits, but their early Mustangs are obviously based on the AM kits and have the dreaded wheelwells...