P-40N-5 (India 1944) interior color

[TDS]

Hi, can you advice me which interior color from AK Real Colors will be the most accurate for P-40N-5?

 

At first i thought it will be RC262 US Interior Yellow Green but i received information that i should use RC230 Dull Dark Green FS34092. I found one more option RC028 Interior Green FS 34151 and i'm a little bit confused.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by TDS

[Chief Cohiba]

Only my 2cts, but may I suggest not to treat the "colour in anything that happened 80 yrs ago" like precise science?

See; when new, it might have been Zinc chromate yellow. Think it might have darkend to Interior yellow green after 6 months of service. Maybe the pilot had more of his regular share of the camp's sadistic cook's chili - it soon turned Dull dark green (or plain white?). A different plane, where cleaning the interior wasn't considered an issue; Bronze Green?

The plane belonged to Jim Belushis character in 1941? Mottled rust brick red over heavy dirt grey? With a thick wash of indestinalgreen (I think it was FS090909?)

 

Sure, one could go kneedeep into the topic of colours in WW2 (google IJN Zero colours), but if you don't want to go totally bananas you very well might use just what looks right for you.  😉

[dogsbody]

Take a peruse through here: http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

 

 

Part II has Curtiss info.

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Steve N]

Just remember, the decking under the canopy behind the pilot was NOT the cockpit color.  It was considered an exterior surface and was painted olive drab.

 

SN

[Seawinder]

Based on what I've read, in answer to the OP's question, while Dull Dark Green is not out of the question, I would go with something in the Interior Green direction. Curtiss had their own source of tinted zinc chromate, said to be somewhat lighter and browner than other versions. It's not clear whether or not they ever transitioned to the later (similar) Interior Green. If I were making the choice between the options shown by the OP, I'd go with RC262 US Interior Yellow Green, with RC028 US Interior Green as second choice.

 

Also based on what I've read and seen I agree with Steve N's color call of Olive Drab for the rear cockpit decking.

[BS_w]

wrote in erection maintenance manual of P40N;
cockpit green: the finish referred to herein as "cockpit green" shall be compounded using the following.....
Color shall be conform to ANA Bulletin  157, color No 601 " Interior Green"
note "601" instead "611", which is a typo error

 

the rear deck was olive drab

 

 

On the deck, under the rear canopy, the container made in plywood (natural)

Edited July 15, 2022 by BS_w

[LDSModeller]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:09 AM, TDS said:

Hi, can you advice me which interior color from AK Real Colors will be the most accurate for P-40N-5?

 

At first i thought it will be RC262 US Interior Yellow Green but i received information that i should use RC230 Dull Dark Green FS34092. I found one more option RC028 Light Green FS 34151 and i'm a little bit confused.

FWIW

 

Here in New Zealand we have an ex RNZAF  P40N (-20) that was tendered

for scrap in the late 1940's (per Lend Lease).

It was rescued and put in storage for around 6 decades, and still has the

original Curtiss Cockpit paint colours.

The colour "Closest" to the actual P40N cockpit colour in your paint chips above

is RC262 though the actual colour is just a tad darker, It's definitely not Dull Dark Green,

or Bronze Green.

 

The Aircraft in question is Curtiss P40N-20 NZ3220 "Gloria Lyons" (last of the P40 Gloria Lyons).

She is still wearing her paint scheme as in this photo circa late 1944

 

(RNZAF Official - Air Force Museum of New Zealand - Used with Permissions)

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

 

[BS_w]

until 43, the Curtiss cockpit green formula was:

- One gallon zinc chromate primer

- one-tenth gallon black enamel

- Two gallon of Toluol

 - 4 ounces aluminium paste

This tinted primer was applied to P36 and P40 airplanes

 

End 43, the aluminium paste was deleted and color shall be match to "Interior Green"

 

seen on french H75

[TDS]

@Chief Cohiba No worries, cockpit will be closed anyway so it doesn't really matter that much. I'm just curious and i want to try AK Real Colors paints because i used only Mr.Hobby and Tamiya.

 

1 hour ago, BS_w said:

until 43, the Curtiss cockpit green formula was:

- One gallon zinc chromate primer

- one-tenth gallon black enamel

- Two gallon of Toluol

 - 4 ounces aluminium paste

This tinted primer was applied to P36 and P40 airplanes

 

End 43, the aluminium paste was deleted and color shall be match to "Interior Green"

 

So P-40 before 1943 should have RC262 US Interior Yellow Green and from 1943 RC028 Interior Green FS 34151?

[LDSModeller]

14 hours ago, TDS said:

So P-40 before 1943 should have RC262 US Interior Yellow Green and from 1943 RC028 Interior Green FS 34151?

 

Just bear in mind that FS number didn't exist in WWII, so the FS 34151

colour won't be the same as WII US Interior Green (and those colours varied between manufacturers)

 

The below is from the Curtiss P40 M&N M&E manual July 1943

 

The mix called for

Zinc Chromate Primer 100lbs

Titanium Oxide 1 - 3lbs

Lamp Black/Carbon Black 0.1 - 0.4 lbs

Magnesium Silicate 8 - 10 lbs

 

You can see that the TiOx and Black amounts can have an impact on colour hues

The below is what I mixed (as scientifically as possible ) using the variations in

TiOx and Black (this was for an RNZAF P40K/M a few years ago

 

Production of the P40 (N) ended circa Nov 1944, so if your P40N-5 has the Curtiss Colour or the

US Interior Green, you would need to find the production date?

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Casey]

I have an spectrophotometer measurements of an sample of Interior Green 611 from the Official Monogram US Navy and Marine Corps Aircraft Color Guide, vol 2, 1940-1949.

 

This is the snapshot of said sample - the image below has L*a*b* color coordinates, Munsell color coordinates, spectral curve and RGB approximation when viewed in daylight.

 

 

Since Zinc Chromate is actually a protective coat and is very toxic, it not recommended to use a paint that is exactly following the original recipe (even if you can buy this substance easilly...)

 

Second best option is to match the paint spectral curve using existing (safe) pigments.

 

Here is an example recipe I have calculated that uses pigments from Golden Fluid acrylics range:

 

 

I've prepared this paint using mix above and made a drawdown.

 

Here is how close it ended up to the original color. 0.49DE is a very good result.

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Casey

[Casey]

And here is a photo of how my mix from recipe above compares to the real interior green:

 

[TDS]

@LDSModeller Can you edit your post? I can't see your pictures

 

 

@Casey Nice job! Thank you for your time and interest. I appreciate it!

[Casey]

The pictures are not embedded in some of the browsers, since they are not on HTTPS site, and they (browsers) now warn people about it.

[Pete M.]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:36 AM, LDSModeller said:

FWIW

 

Here in New Zealand we have an ex RNZAF  P40N (-20) that was tendered

for scrap in the late 1940's (per Lend Lease).

It was rescued and put in storage for around 6 decades, and still has the

original Curtiss Cockpit paint colours.

The colour "Closest" to the actual P40N cockpit colour in your paint chips above

is RC262 though the actual colour is just a tad darker, It's definitely not Dull Dark Green,

or Bronze Green.

 

The Aircraft in question is Curtiss P40N-20 NZ3220 "Gloria Lyons" (last of the P40 Gloria Lyons).

She is still wearing her paint scheme as in this photo circa late 1944

 

(RNZAF Official - Air Force Museum of New Zealand - Used with Permissions)

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

 

Below are two photos taken of NZ3220's wings when they were being refurbished by Avspecs Ltd at Ardmore airfield. Note how dark the Curtis interior paint is after some 70 odd years.

This airframe stood out in the open at the Rukuhia depot for many years before John Smith purchased it and stored the fuselage in his shed. The wings were stored outside but under some corrugated iron sheeting as a cover!

Photos by Kerry Carlyle.

 

 

 

Hope this helps, Pete M.