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Banff Strike Wing bits and pieces


bobsyouruncle
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Good afternoon Gents,

Whilst trawling through books and searching online to definitively try to pin down the 248 Sqn 'WR' code colours, (from info received here probably Red with Yellow

outlines?), I came across some clips of other aircraft which people had been searching for photo evidence of, on here, that I thought might be of interest to some in case they've been missed?

 

The Banff Strike Wing footage only starts at 10.11 (some very low flying over sea in places)

 

In this IWM film are what I believe are (please feel free to tell me if I'm wrong):-

At 12.03 Max Aitkens's 'MA' HR366 being wheeled out of the hangar with the half invasion stripes and possibly him boarding (wipes foot first on bottom of ladder).

I can see the pennant and serial '36?' (I have seen that other film too where you can make out the 'MA' forward of the roundel if you freeze it right, but they're hidden behind the wing here).

Someone had been asking about photos of this aircraft.

 

At 13.47 Mk XVIII 'Tsetse' Mosquito WR-L MM425 flying low level over sea with the Molins just very slightly visible next to the carb intake? Full Squadron style code letters.

Again someone had asked about this one and no-one seemed to have seen one in the Coastal Command Grey colours? I've been looking in the Sqn ORBs and this aircraft appears

as '248 SD' or 'S.S.D' (Squadron Special Detachment). I think this one was partly credited with sinking the U-976.

 

I believe it's ok to link to a film so here goes:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060021109

 

Hope they are of interest,

Cheers Bob.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, bobsyouruncle said:

Good afternoon Gents,

Whilst trawling through books and searching online to definitively try to pin down the 248 Sqn 'WR' code colours, (from info received here probably Red with Yellow

outlines?), I came across some clips of other aircraft which people had been searching for photo evidence of, on here, that I thought might be of interest to some in case they've been missed?

 

The Banff Strike Wing footage only starts at 10.11 (some very low flying over sea in places)

 

In this IWM film are what I believe are (please feel free to tell me if I'm wrong):-

At 12.03 Max Aitkens's 'MA' HR366 being wheeled out of the hangar with the half invasion stripes and possibly him boarding (wipes foot first on bottom of ladder).

I can see the pennant and serial '36?' (I have seen that other film too where you can make out the 'MA' forward of the roundel if you freeze it right, but they're hidden behind the wing here).

Someone had been asking about photos of this aircraft.

 

At 13.47 Mk XVIII 'Tsetse' Mosquito WR-L MM425 flying low level over sea with the Molins just very slightly visible next to the carb intake? Full Squadron style code letters.

Again someone had asked about this one and no-one seemed to have seen one in the Coastal Command Grey colours? I've been looking in the Sqn ORBs and this aircraft appears

as '248 SD' or 'S.S.D' (Squadron Special Detachment). I think this one was partly credited with sinking the U-976.

 

I believe it's ok to link to a film so here goes:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060021109

 

Hope they are of interest,

Cheers Bob.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MM425/L did indeed have a share in sinking U-976 along with HX903/I on 25/3/44.

 

The Mk.XVIII were initially operated by 4 crews of 618 Squadron Special Detachment (plus 34 ground crew) which was attached to 248 squadron from Oct 1943. On 23/5/44 618 SD was disbanded and the 4 aircraft and 5 crews on hand transferred to 248 squadron where they formed C flight according to "Shipbuster". Then in mid-March 1945 the whole Flight transferred to 254 squadron.

 

With 315 squadron (coded PK) escorting the Mossies that section of the film dates to 1/11/44-15/1/45 when that squadron was based at Peterhead tasked with providing fighter cover for the Banff and Dallachy Strike Wings.

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Great info Ewen.

You seem to know a lot about these.

Do you know what colour the outline around the DM-? code letters were on the later machines from 248 at all please?

I've seen profiles of them with a solid Dark Grey or Black colour, but whilst looking through these films and leads from them,

have come across photos of them with the codes outlined (looks slightly darker than the roundel yellow rim to my poor eyes).

Thanks for any help/leads.

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I hadn't noticed before but the footage of the Lancasters departing always shows the rear turret traversed towards the camera. Was this a standard takeoff routine or just for the occasion?

Mike

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Afternoon Gents,

some more on the 248 Sqn 'DM-?' code colour query I've got. 

 

I realise that these are generally regarded as 'one colour' dark grey/black codes in photos and profiles.

 

I've come across a couple of IWM stills in films (I love looking through these) which show these codes outlined in a lighter colour, in a similar fashion to other Banff Strike Wing Mosquito Squadrons in 1945?

Now that I've seen these, I've been going back to the Black and White photos in publications, looking closer and I'm not totally convinced that their 'DM-?' codes weren't all outlined and I'm wondering how

the Grey colour (in profiles) was arrived at? Might it have been from information from the crews at all?

 

The outlines are not always obvious, as (depending on how the film shows certain colour tones), the outline can almost blend into the overall Grey of the fuselage.

I thought that in some shots, the outline's a close match to the roundel Red?.. and that the darker colour can be close to the roundel Blue, or Black?

 

Here are the films.

 

First up is the RAF film 'Ship Busters'. I know this was made at the end of the war, before they disbanded, but also bear in mind the evidence from the second film I've listed here.

You have to make sure you pick film 2/2 and pause it on about 00:50/ 00:51 secs.

There you should see a close up of 248 Sqn Mosquito DM-N with outlined codes.

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060005152

 

Second film is titled 'Mosquitos and Transport Aircraft.

Here you want to pause it at 00:44 for a look at 248 Sqn Mosquito RS631 DM-B. You should see the 'B' outlined if my eyes are right?

This one was definitely flying with 248 whilst the war was still on and force landed in Sweden on 09/04/45.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060021122

 

You can also see this aircraft on the forced landings in Sweden website here:

The codes may not look outlined in the lighter photo initially, but have a look at the shot taken from the rear further down the page of the same aircraft?

 

https://www.forcedlandingcollection.se/RAFe/RAF103-RS631.html

 

Hope these links work and wonder what your thoughts might be on this?

Thanks Bob.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't think that you can say that all had codes outlined in a light colour. Scan down this page for a photo of RF610 DM-H (previously R) from April 1945. I'm not seeing any signs of an outline. As noted the rocket fit dates it to the end of Feb 1945 at the earliest.

 

This page provides details of the various changes to Coastal Command camouflage schemes and markings

http://www.hrmtech.com/SIG/coastal_cam.asp

 

"1944? Beaufighter and Mosquito codes change to Sky then Black (occasionally outlined Yellow) codes. Bowyer and photos."

 

And a 235 squadron Mossie at the foot of this page. Purportedly Sky outlined in red.

https://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/cleaver/gb/fighter/tcmos6.htm

 

Lot of information on 404 Mossie markings on these decal sheets.

https://www.aviaeology.com/store/p109/AOD48011.html#/

 

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Thanks very much for that info Ewen, particularly the article on markings and timelines.

Yes I've been looking at the Aviaeology information for some time and would have liked to mail Terry about it all, but I'm not sure that the company's still active or not

as I can't seem to get any links to work for me when I try to order even the information books, or if he'd have the time to indulge me here.

 

Yes I was aware of the shot of RF610 DM-H (found it in the article in the Airfix Modelling Special on the Mosquito). 

I take your point on the code letters initially looking just 'solid' and without obvious outlines in that shot (similar to the way the ones look in that link I put up to the forced landing ones 'DM-K' and 'DM-B').

However, because I could see from film that 'DM-B' definitely has the outlines and because that photo of both of them had too much contrast, it made me take a closer look and then I subsequently

saw the outlines in the rear view shot in the link of 'DM-B', visible (because of the restricted angle) on the tops of the letters 'D' and 'B'. Here's that link again:

https://www.forcedlandingcollection.se/RAFe/RAF103-RS631.html

When I look at how dark that roundel red is in the shot of DM-K and DM-B together, I'm thinking it could simply be 'lost to the eyes', as it would just look like a blurry edge of the black code letters?

 

I don't know what colour this supposed outline might be, but to my eyes it looks very a close shade to the red in the roundel, in the photos where it's obvious and the trouble with that, is that it also is

a close match to the fuselage Grey (making it almost invisible on a first look)?

Going back to your shot of RF610 DM-H, do you see (or anyone else unless it's just the two of us here!) the faint outline going down the top left outer edge of the 'D' (where it's against the darker overpainted area)?

Also, can you make out a faint line running below the horizontal bar of the 'H' towards it's right end?

There's some optical illusion with the red of the roundel appearing darker than the fuselage side, (because it's next to a ring of white), until you 'cut and paste' this onto the adjacent fuselage sides, where it

disappears  - the same for the red of the tail insignia (which is why I wondered about this).

 

I'm not saying that all the 248 squadron machines definitely had these outlines and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel or anything, but at this stage I am going to keep having closer look, (at least for a while) as I've been bitten before by just using profiles as a resource and sometimes I've found that on occasion, even experts have missed some things hidden in blurry photos.

I guess I'm just acting as devil's advocate as I want to be sure (oh dear, sounding like Matt Hooper in 'Jaws' before cutting the Tiger shark open on the dock!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Another small piece of possible evidence found today in support of the 248 Sqn 'DM-?' codes being outlined (that's at least 4 photos now), in a photo of Mosquito FB.VI HR362 DM-Q where an outline

(again a similar tone to the Red in the roundel) appears visible. There's a shot of this aircraft in Les Taylor's 'Banff Strike Wing' on page 90 where you can just about make it out.

This aircraft was lost on 12th March 1945 when the Squadron was attacked by Me109s, with the loss of W/O Raymond William Moffat and F/O Bruce Andrew Stanley Abbott from Australia.

Going to have to go down to Hendon to try and pin this down.

 

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On 7/16/2022 at 9:32 PM, Phoenix44 said:

OT but the exhaust staining on some of those Lancasters at the beginning is very pale and very heavy!

Exhaust staining was normally heavy on Lancasters.  Dark stains tell you that the engines have been running rich, with unburnt carbon whereas lsghter stains that engines have been running lean for extra range, the light colour coming from the lead additives in the fuel.  Note that only seven trails are on the uppersurface as the combination of opwash and the lower position of the exhaust with repest to the wing (thank to dihedral) keeps the flow below the wing.

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