Simon Cornes Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 A good many years ago I read something that said that in addition to the standard oval cooling jacket .303 barrels the Lanc also flew with .303's with circular cooling holes in the barrel jackets. Similar to a .50cal but definitely .303. Quickboost actually do separate sets with round and oval holes but I am trying to get Master to do 1/32 .303's with round holes because I think they were fitted to late production Lancs. It could be B.X's but I just can't remember where I read it. Possibly the MDF but I couldn't find anything following a cursory glance last night nor in Lanc at War vol 1 or 2. Does anyone else know about this and, if so, could you please tell me where I might find a reference to validate my 'knowledge'? Many thanks Simon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 AFAIK the B.X's were built in Canada and flown to the UK without turrets which were installed when they arrived so it's unlikely that these would have been the sole recipients of guns with round perforations. I know Quickboost do guns for the Lanc in 72nd scale with both oval and round perforations but I can't find any reference as to when the round versions were produced or introduced so perhaps some one out there can shed more light on this? Regards Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 Thanks Colin . Well I didn’t imagine it and Quickboost don’t make things that didn’t exist either so I must have read it somewhere but where? Very frustrating!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 17 hours ago, Simon Cornes said: A good many years ago I read something that said that in addition to the standard oval cooling jacket .303 barrels the Lanc also flew with .303's with circular cooling holes in the barrel jackets. Similar to a .50cal but definitely .303. Quickboost actually do separate sets with round and oval holes but I am trying to get Master to do 1/32 .303's with round holes because I think they were fitted to late production Lancs. It could be B.X's but I just can't remember where I read it. Possibly the MDF but I couldn't find anything following a cursory glance last night nor in Lanc at War vol 1 or 2. Does anyone else know about this and, if so, could you please tell me where I might find a reference to validate my 'knowledge'? Many thanks Simon Basically produced by different manufacturers, they were interchangeable between guns, you could probably find aircraft with both styles fitted at the same time. Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, Selwyn said: Basically produced by different manufacturers, they were interchangeable between guns, you could probably find aircraft with both styles fitted at the same time. Selwyn That’s interesting- you only see photos of the oval hole variety. Probably the same gun photographed from different angles!! Must find the reference that gave me the idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 32 minutes ago, Simon Cornes said: That’s interesting- you only see photos of the oval hole variety. Probably the same gun photographed from different angles!! Must find the reference that gave me the idea! 303 Brownings were fitted to all turrets found on Lancasters ,Halifaxes, Stirlings, Wellingtons, etc etc. The guns were made by various manufacturers and had a few detail differences, but the key factor was that they were standardized so all parts were interchangeable, otherwise you would end up with the ultimate spare parts nightmare. Being simplistic by saying late or early manufacture does not necessarily stand up. If an early model Lancaster crash landed after ops it was dismantled, and after assessment parts were either repaired or reduced to spare parts. These recovered parts were checked, and fed into the supply pool for use as spares,or sent to a manufacturer or overhaul site to be used on new or repaired aircraft. Turrets and guns recovered could be quite possibly issued to Avro's for fitting to a new production aircraft, or used at the Avro refurbishment centre at Bracebridge Heath to be fitted to a repaired aircraft. This sort of thing happened a lot. You can see images of late model Lancasters with rear fuselages with windows, where a battle damaged aircraft has been repaired by fitting a recovered and repaired replacement early manufacture fuselage. Selwyn 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 It’s a tin of worms isn’t it?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europapete Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Try Gaspatch Models, they do a whole range of 1/32 guns. Regards, Pete in RI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Though I can't remember where I read it, because it was quite some time ago, but I recall that the round holes were on early made guns but when production ramped up, they went to the oval holes as they could be stamped out quicker ans easier. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 37 minutes ago, dogsbody said: Though I can't remember where I read it, because it was quite some time ago, but I recall that the round holes were on early made guns but when production ramped up, they went to the oval holes as they could be stamped out quicker ans easier. Chris Thanks Chris, wonder if I saw this in the Modellers Data File in the context of the Manchester then? The .303 was obviously around before then but I take Selwyn's point that there could be a degree of 'mix and match' as time went by providing the two weapons fitted the same mounting - and why shouldn't they? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Just an anecdote but some of the very early Lancs had guns fitted that were actually broom handles for press pics due to the shortage of supply, but no idea if such had any perforations! Regards Colin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 8 hours ago, fishplanebeer said: Just an anecdote but some of the very early Lancs had guns fitted that were actually broom handles for press pics due to the shortage of supply, but no idea if such had any perforations! Regards Colin. I rather doubt it - woodworm maybe!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Any real truth in this or just a bar story? Given the mass production of these weapons started long before Lancaster production, it seems highly unlikely that there would have ever been such a shortage at this time. Think of the priority given to the Lancaster above all the other myriad uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Graham Boak said: Any real truth in this or just a bar story? Given the mass production of these weapons started long before Lancaster production, it seems highly unlikely that there would have ever been such a shortage at this time. Think of the priority given to the Lancaster above all the other myriad uses. True but Quickboost believe it otherwise they wouldn’t have done a Lanc set with round cooling holes!! Every photo I’ve looked at in the last few days shows oval holes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 39 minutes ago, Simon Cornes said: True but Quickboost believe it otherwise they wouldn’t have done a Lanc set with round cooling holes!! Every photo I’ve looked at in the last few days shows oval holes!! Quickboost didn't offer broomsticks. That was what i was referring to, not a minor change in the cooling holes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Instead on concentrating on just Lancaster guns, a better question would be looking into all RAF .303 Colt-Browning machine guns that were used in most all British aircraft gun turrets. Whitleys, Wellingtons, Halifaxes, Sunderlands, Stirlings, etc. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, dogsbody said: Instead on concentrating on just Lancaster guns, a better question would be looking into all RAF .303 Colt-Browning machine guns that were used in most all British aircraft gun turrets. Whitleys, Wellingtons, Halifaxes, Sunderlands, Stirlings, etc. Chris Good idea Chris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Not sure where I read about the 'broom handles' but it makes a nice story even if, as Graham suggests, it may have been a slight exaggeration of the truth. That said there is no evidence to confirm to the contrary so I'm happy to believe, as well as in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy! Regards Colin. Ps. I've checked quite a few of my Lancaster pics and can't see guns with round perforations which suggests they were far less common Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 11, 2022 Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 Definitely not in the Data file. I've now emailed both Aires and Hendon to see if someone can shine a light on this. Getting a bit obsessive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europapete Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 About the broomsticks with oval holes or the guns with round holes Simon? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted July 11, 2022 Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 29 minutes ago, europapete said: About the broomsticks with oval holes or the guns with round holes Simon? Ha ha! We're moving to the ridiculous! No, about the guns, not the broomsticks - that's too Harry Potter! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elger Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 On 7/10/2022 at 11:44 PM, fishplanebeer said: Not sure where I read about the 'broom handles' but it makes a nice story even if, as Graham suggests, it may have been a slight exaggeration of the truth. That said there is no evidence to confirm to the contrary so I'm happy to believe, as well as in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy! Regards Colin. Ps. I've checked quite a few of my Lancaster pics and can't see guns with round perforations which suggests they were far less common The story of broom handles replacing guns comes from Doolittle's Tokyo raid, perhaps https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/doolittle-bombers.html?firefox=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 I may be off-base here, but I think the round holes are pre-war and early war production. After wartime production ramped up, the holes were retangular and stamped out of sheets of metal. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 On 7/10/2022 at 2:29 PM, Simon Cornes said: True but Quickboost believe it otherwise they wouldn’t have done a Lanc set with round cooling holes!! Every photo I’ve looked at in the last few days shows oval holes!! Quickboost is known for making mistakes, as well as offering "correction" sets that don't actually correct anything (one-to-one copies of kit parts part with just better panel lines)... See 1/72 cowlings for Fw190, S.79, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted November 3, 2022 Author Share Posted November 3, 2022 9 hours ago, dogsbody said: I may be off-base here, but I think the round holes are pre-war and early war production. After wartime production ramped up, the holes were retangular and stamped out of sheets of metal. Chris I believe that US produced brownings, certainly those intended for ground use, had circular holes so I can believe ones manufactured in the U.K. could well have been modified with oval slots. The Imperial War Museum and RAF museum don’t know!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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