RAM tank MK.I - first off the line - backdating Bronco's Canadian Cruiser Tank Ram MK.II Early Production and a bit of serendipity

[ColonelKrypton]

It seems that I can never just leave well enough alone. Whenever I see a kit my mind always quickly wanders off somewhere to imagine what else could I build from this thing?

 

And so it was when I stumbled across Bronco's Canadian Cruiser Tank Ram MK.II Early Production kit.  The subject itself was interesting as I have always wanted to build a model of the Ram tank but when you delve into the history of this vehicle you begin to realize that there is much more to this relatively unknown tank that you just want to build a model of several of the more interesting variants. 

 

One day many years ago I first stumbled across a real Ram tank in the Canadian War Museum vehicle annex. There it was parked between two other tanks looking rather familiar but still not quite recognizable. A few questions asked of one of the annexes staff set me straight and from then on I had wanted to learn more and to build a model of one. And build a model of one I did - a kitbash of a Tamiya Sherman and Tamiya M3 Lee with all the warts and inaccuracies of both included to produce something which kind of sort of squinty eye viewed looked like a Ram. 

 

The once was a really nice and extensive web site devoted to the Ram tank  ramtank.ca which was created by a gentleman by the name of Clive Law. Sadly, the web site passed into obscurity shortly after Mr. Law passed away. Thankfully to the existence of the web's wayback machine much of the old ramtank.ca web site can still be accessed https://web.archive.org/web/20170623015727/http://www.ramtank.ca:80/

 

My interest of late in respect to AFV's has been leaning towards the more utility varieties and in particular armour recovery vehicles ( ARV ). I started but did not finish a kitbash of the Airfix M3 Grant during the M3/M4 group build. I ran into some issues with the MiniArt tracks I choose not fitting the chassis very well.  Problem was I did not account for the MiniArt tracks dimensions being larger than the rubber band tracks of the Airfix kit and by the time I got around to fitting said tracks it became clear that I had built myself into a corner and the tracks where just not going to fit properly. The result was not finishing the build. Live and learn, nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

For those still wondering what a RAM ARV MK.I might be, this is a picture of one such vehicle in action towing a RAM MK.II (mid production) through a spot of mud

 

 

 

RAM ARV MK.I's where all made from RAM MK.I vehicles of which 50 were made and of those 50 there seems to be a fair number that were either converted or slated to be converted. Some MK.I's did make it overseas and some did not. 

 

Some partial history CT39791:

8 May 43 - UK. Veh to Winget Ltd for convertion to Ram ARV
4 Sep 43 - Veh convertion complete - Can GHQ Tank Files, T-17893Jan 1944, shown as ARV held by CMHQ
Feb 1944, shown as ARV
Oct 1944, shown as ARV, held in stock
1944/45 - Veh struck off strength Canadian Central Stocks to British Stocks

 

which is similar to a fair number of other RAM MK.I vehicles. I don't know what "held in stock" means but presume that the vehicle was not used in any operational capacity but rather simply held in case it was needed.

 

So what would make a better model than a relatively obscure variation of a relatively obscure AFV vehicle?

 

Why bother with a mundane OOB build when I can kitbash something more interesting.

 

To be continued ...

 

cheers, Graham

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by ColonelKrypton
update

[81-er]

That sounds like a very interesting project, Graham. I'll look forward to following this one.

 

James

[zebra]

Another one that I knew nothing about so thanks for the info. Looks like this will be an interesting build.

[Bertie McBoatface]

Excellent choice of subject Graham, and an interesting kit to work with too. I'll follow along with pleasure.

[ColonelKrypton]

It has been quite some time since I last updated this thread but I have not been idle.

 

First off, this is the Bronco kit this build is being based on,

 

 

 

The tan coloured bits are from an Airfix/Academy M3 Grant that I thought might be useful and the tracks are a set of MiniArt WE-210 waffle ( or double H ) pattern tracks.

 

My first thoughts on this kit are that it was not too bad being the only game in town for a Ram Tank other than some very limited run custom kits that have been around. However, after sorting through the bits, test fitting, and comparing to references my opinion has been tempered somewhat. The road wheels, return rollers, and idler wheels are all too narrow and the parts themselves seem a bit too "delicate" - that is, a bit on the smallish size. That won't do and I think I will salvage those parts from an incomplete Airfix M3 Grant. Those Airfix parts are not perfect either seeming to be a bit too big. The drive sprocket from the Bronco kit is the better of the bunch between the Airfix M3 Grant and the Bronco Ram - right shape, fit the MiniArt tracks nicely, but perhaps a bit on the delicate side as well.  Nothing is perfect and we can't have everything. Interesting the Tasca early VVSS parts are overall better being somewhere between the Bronco and the Airfix parts BUT the drive sprocket isn't quite right for a M3 Grant / Ram.

 

 

And this is where I stalled for a couple of weeks trying to decide whether or not to start cutting on the Bronco Ram hull in order to use the Airfix parts or not.  Once I started there was no going back. 

 

In any case, in order to build the Ram ARV Mk.I I needed to identify what changes where needed to change the Ram Mk.II (early) into a Mk.I. As far as is obvious are the exhausts on the Mk.I are the pepper pot style and would need to be changed and there is the gun mantlet as well as the Mk.I used the mantlet and 2 pounder  from the Valentine tank. There are other differences but they are less obvious. 

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained - I decided to go ahead with using the Airfix M3 Grant running gear; no going back now and if I mess this up then the build will likely be over.

 

So far, the mods are going swimmingly and this is where I am now at

 

 

I am happier now with the Airfix M3 Grant running gear in place - the MiniArt tracks fit well, and the Bronco drive sprocket does better look the part than the Airfix one.

 

One item that the Airfix/Academy kit does not have are the small triangular reinforcing gussets on the bottom side of the hull. The Bronco Ram parts have them but I didn't use those bits, the MiniArt M3 Lee / Grant kits have them and so do the Tasca parts. Even though they will not be seen on the finished model I went ahead and added some roughly shaped triangular bits.

 

 

To top it all off, I have been having a bit of rethink on where I am going with this build. I frequently review my reference photos that I have collected and I find myself spending a lot time looking over the photos of the Ram tank production at the Montreal Locomotive works, not the later marks but the very first ones off the line - what could be more interesting than a fresh AFV resplendent in it's red oxide primer just after it rolls of the assembly floor? 

 

At the moment I am sitting on the fence trying to decide which way to fall - continue the build as the Ram ARV Mk.I or as an early Ram Mk.I just off the assembly floor at the Locomotive works.  In either case I will need to continue with the identified mods of converting the Mk.II (early) to a Mk.I. 

 

Here is my food for thought:

 

 

The vehicle in the lower right corner is number 5 and the one I pattern my build on if I fall that way. ( number 2 on the left, number 4 behind it.  I kind of like the look without the fenders.

 

To be continued ....

 

Cheers, Graham

 

[zebra]

Great to see this is progressing Graham. I know very little about tanks so I'm learning a lot!

[ColonelKrypton]

There I was, sitting peacefully and quietly on the fence contemplating life's vicissitudes when all of a sudden a Nor'Easter blows in and I find myself flat on my behind pointing me off in a new direction.

 

The astute may have noticed that I have updated the title for my WIP thread to reflect my new direction. Before I decided which direction I was going to follow I didn't sit idle as it did not matter which direction I would eventual choose I still had backdate Bronco's Ram Tank Mk.II to a Mk.I regardless.

 

The first 50 Ram Tanks off the line where Mk.I's and it was from this batch of vehicles that the Ram ARV Mk.I would be made.  In a previous post I posted a photo of the assembly line in the Montreal Locomotive Works where the Ram's were rolling off. I found a few more photos of the Locomotive Works - here are couple more:

 

 

 

 

 

And there are others but I won't clutter up this thread any more - for now.

 

Fact is, I have not been able to find many photos of Ram Mk.I's so identifying the differences between the Mk.I and early and later Mk.II's has not been that easy. Biggest difference is that the Mk.I mounted a QF 2 pounder and Besa machine gun using the cast mantlet of the Valentine which was also being built in Canada at the Canadian Pacific Angus facility  so that is one change I need to make to the early Mk.II to make it a Mk.I and hear is where a bit of serendipity came into play.

 

I recently paid a visit to my local hobby emporium where I spent much time looking over their offerings. The Occre wood ship and vehicle kits caught my eye and I spent much time looking them over but something else caught my eye and sparked an epiphany which of course followed me home.

 

 

Which gave me cause to recall this interesting photo:

 

 

Which I think are some of the very first Valentines produced in Canada - they have the cast front end and the solid exhaust cover rather than the mess one of some later ones.  In fact, the Valentines produced in Canada had a number of different features throughout their production run. MiniArt does a nice Valentine Mk.IV Canadian version but does not have the cast front end. In fact, the Tamiya Valentine Mk.II/IV is more like the above Canadian Valentines but it will require a different gun barrel ( Aber has very nice one ) and making a cast front end. No, I am not changing this WIP to be a Valentine but time permitting I plan on building one of these for this group build and will appear in it's own WIP thread. I have been promising myself that I will get a decent kit with good fit and build it out of box with few if any changes or improvements and I think the Tamiya Valentine fits that bill nicely.

 

This will be a nice compliment to a Ram Mk.I fresh off the line at the Montreal Locomotive Works.  Incidentally, the Montreal Locomotive works was located a bit more than hour's drive from where I currently live so there a bit of local historical connection to these builds.

 

Back to the Ram...

 

 

Work continues on the basic Ram hull and is for the most part assembled less a few detail bits.  The photo shows the Aber QF 2 pounder barrel and Besa machine gun barrel that the Mk.I would have had installed.  You will also notice a cast Valentine mantlet for same courtesy of simple copy of the mantlet of the Tamiya kit's part. 

 

One of the other major differences between the Mk.I's and the Mk.II and later marks is that the Mk.I's where fitted with the M3 Lee pepper pot exhausts.  I have not found any evidence that the Mk.II's or later used the pepper pot exhausts.  

 

I salvaged and res-used the pepper pot exhausts from a defunct Airfix M3 Grant build - cut and hack them out of the old model, clean them up, and prepare them to be mounted to the Ram.

 

 

The disc on the bottom is piece of 0.015" plastic card with rivets added which were made using a jewellers beading tool and 98lb Artists mixed media paper glued in place with a wee tiny dab of Tamiya extra thin cement. I have posted about how I make rivets like these before but if anyone wants me to post more details I will. 

 

As a teaser, this is an example of rivet sizes from smallest ( 0.4mm diameter ) to largest ( 0.95mm ) that I make this way

 

 

The dark ones are made from black 98lb mixed media paper I mentioned earlier whereas the copper colored ones are made from 0.002" copper.

 

Now I am starting to wonder how those first Ram tanks off the assembly line where painted. They appear dark in the photo's and I am assuming that they were likely red oxide primer and would not see their final color until later on in the paint shop. 

 

What do you think?  Red oxide primer or ??? 

 

cheers, Graham

[Bertie McBoatface]

Go Red! With a few white chalk marks you have the colours of the flag. 

[ColonelKrypton]

On 8/1/2022 at 1:55 AM, Bertie McBoatface said:

Go Red! With a few white chalk marks you have the colours of the flag.

 

What an excellent idea!  I hadn't considered chalk markings but they are likely a few - I will have to review my references with an eye for that detail. 

 

The vehicles do have largish numbers on them which appear to be white. Perhaps these were chalked on or put on with a simple white wash sort of paint. 

 

So far the most likely colour is red oxide primer.

 

cheers, Graham

 

[ColonelKrypton]

Managed to move forward with getting the tracks completed and fitted plus the addition of a few other details now that I have decided on which direction I moving.

 

The tracks are MiniArt WE-210 track links and are in my opinion much easier to assemble than the Bronco ones.  I gave the Bronco tracks and honest try but getting those individual end connectors and secured well enough was not that easy and quickly took all their tole in trying my usual patience. The MinArt tracks fit very nice - not too tight, a wee bit loose but not so much that it is noticeable; in fact, loose enough that I put the tracks on and take them off again by pulling off the drive sprocket and idler wheel so that should make painting easier.

 

 

 

Next big step will be figuring out what difference there may be between the RAM Mk.I and the RAM Mk.II (early) and how to mount that Valentine QF 2 pounder mantlet into the Ram turret.

 

The Bronco RAM kit is not that bad but it does have it's issues with accuracy. Paul Owen published some fixes on Track Link in an unfinished thread on fixing some of those shortcomings.  https://www.track-link.com/forums/site_blogs/40128/flat  The changes themselves would not be that difficult to incorporate but I decided that I would just leave well enough alone for now.  Perhaps in the future when I build another RAM I will incorporate some of these updates but not for now.

 

I started another thread asking for opinions on what colour these vehicles would be at this point as the rolled off the assembly line but so far have had little response. I am still leaning towards oxide red primer and I will need to review my few reference photos to see what brackets may be in place for the various shovels and other bits that would later be found on the operational vehicles. 

 

cheers, Graham

 

[Courageous]

Nice work Graham, an AFV I know nothing about.

 

Stuart

[ColonelKrypton]

Good day all.

 

Still plodding along with my Ram Mk.I build - plodding is the operative word, too many distractions of late including the recent Blitz Group Build. 

 

Got my workbench back in order with a bit of tidying and general cleanup and moved forward with some work on backdating the Bronco Ram Tank Mk.II to a Mk.I.

 

A mount for a QF 2 pounder has been made - I will be using the very nice Aber aftermarket barrel.  I have started making the new turret mantlet out of several laminations of styrene sheet which is now very roughly to finished size but still needing to be roughened up like cast armour and have the mounting bolts detailed. Plus a few other bits and pieces have been added. 

 

One of my challenges with this build of such vehicle as it was rolling off of the assembly line was just what bits and pieces and fittings would have been fitted.  For example, the fire extinguishers mounted on the hull just behind the grab handles over the side doors where not fitted at this point but a mounting plate was in place. As well, the periscopes would not have been fitted but part of their mounts would have been in place; same goes for the antenna mount and bits and pieces for holding the shovels and picks and what not - some are visibly in places and others not. I will just have to make a guess and leave off bits, quite the opposite of usual AFV building where you add bits and fittings and various stowage.

 

 

 

Getting close to finishing off the build phase and starting to plan paint.

 

The Bronco Ram Mk.II (early) may have some issues with accuracy but overall it is not that bad of kit and is the only game in town if you want to build a Ram.

 

One of my gripes with this kit is the turret cupola. It is molded with the upper turret piece which means that the hatches can only be modeled open with the hatch halves open to the front and the rear.  It would be nice to be open the hatches side to side or off at an angle to add a bit of visual effect.  I considered cutting or sawing off the cupola and repositioning but having only just one example I thought better of it just in case a I make a mess of it. But now that I am thinking of it again - I could just make a simple mold of cupola and cast another ... hmmm. 

 

I would build another if I could find another kit. A couple of years ago I was stumbling across many examples of this kit in stock but do you think I can find another local example? Here is hoping that Bronco will release other versions or the Ram or at least re-issue this one.

 

cheers, Graham 

[Courageous]

For a 'plodder', it's looking very nice.

 

Stuart

[ColonelKrypton]

Good day all,

 

I didn't quite finish my Ram Tank Mk.I, in fact the longer it dragged along the more I just lost interest. That is not to say that I won't finish it but not just now.

 

This build followed a somewhat twisted path. I had initially wanted to build a Ram Kangaroo for the M3 / M4 Group build and was going to use the Bronco Ram Tank as the bulk of that build plus using the interior bits from Airfix Grant as the basis for the interior of the open top Kangaroo. Not wanting to waste the left bits of the Airfix Grant I had the thought to build the Grant as a Grant ARV Mk.I. I would need to use the WE-210 track links from the Bronco Ram for the Grant ARV. The Bronco WE-210 track links and I just did not get along plus scale wise are on a bit on the small side. The Miniart We-210 track link set proved much easier to assemble and where more correct as far as scale dimensions go but this would be the down fall of my Grant ARV Mk.I build; more on that a bit later.

 

The original plan of the Kangaroo build  quickly changed to being the Grant ARV build for the M3 / M4 Group build and I deferred the Ram Kangaroo to this, the upcoming Canadian Group build. 

 

The Grant ARV build proceeded nicely until I tried fitting the completed Miniart WE-210 tracks to the Airfix Grant hull. They just did not fit right - they were just too big in spite of being quite accurate in scale dimensions. A measure of the Airfix Grant rubber band tracks and a comparison with Bronco WE-210 tracks showed both to smaller in dimension to the Miniart set, the Airfix Grant rubber band tracks in particular. The Airfix Grant kit is a re-release of one of the earlier Acadamey M3 Lee / Grant offerings. 

 

I poked and prodded the Grant hull and suspension bits hoping I could shift the bits around a bit to no avail. I could proceed no further with the conversion of the Airfix Grant into a Grant ARV Mk.I in which case I set the project aside and waited for the Canadian Group build to began.

 

The Canadian Group Build began I started own the path the build the Bronco Ram Tank Mk.II (early) into a Ram Kangaroo. A bit of research showed the that Bronco Ram tank while not being too bad a kit had some issues with dimension and shape which I felt I did not want to correct and would detract from building the open top Kangaroo. It was then decided to change focus to building a Ram ARV Mk.I which were based on the Ram Mk.I tanks.  This would require identifying and making whatever changes were required to make the Mk.II (early) into a Ram Mk.I 

 

And that is where the start of this WIP begins.

 

Along the way while researching the subject of the Canadian Ram Tank I was distracted by chasing squirrels and rabbits and some shiny objects the most compelling of which was a photograph I found of the Ram Tank assembly line at the Montreal Locomotive works showing several Mk.I Ram Tanks nearing the end of their assembly.

 

This resulted in a further shift of interest and my Ram ARV Mk.I quickly morphed into becoming a Ram Tank Mk.I - one of the first few off of the assembly line. 

 

Most of the assembly work is complete save for a few small details; painting will be the next big step. I was not going to rush those last few bits and painting along just to finish by the end of the group build - nothing good ever comes from rushing. 

 

For the time being I set aside my Ram Tank Mk.I and it will patiently wait for paint when I next feel enthusiasm for the subject.  Coming up is the Armoured Car and Half Track Group Build and I will take a week to clear off and tidy my workspace, replace dull and nicked scalpel blades with fresh, replace worn and grungy sand paper with new on my sanding blocks, and otherwise prepare for my next adventure.  I leave you with a couple photo's of my Ram Mk.I as it currently sits.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers, Graham