alternate paint forms versus "brandism"

[masterKamera]

Ill admit i got the 502 burnt umber because i know the technique works, chemical reactions, etc. Who wants unknowns when learning?

 

 

What sources of knowledge is there in using normal over the shelf acrylic paint pencils, acrylic in a tube, and oil paints that you get in the "student grade" section at walmart?

[Casey]

I am not fully sure what kind of knowledge you ask...

 

Student grade paints are usually having different pigment concentrations than artist/professional grade (much less). They are cheaper and have less color range. You get what you pay for there.

 

I use artist grade acrylic paints which you can get at most hobby shops.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Casey

[masterKamera]

The right way to use them, perhaps i have perused to many pages of a particular modelling forum to think critically. 

 

Its like this,   I AM using tamiya paint, but i can see that the supply and demand, and the supply chain isnt working that well.  Hence the interest in the ability to use "student" or artist grade water based acrylic paint as a preference to having to purchase 40-60 dollar "weathering" kits for each period, each nationality, and each season. 

 

Ie  why spend ?

[Casey]

1 hour ago, masterKamera said:

The right way to use them, perhaps i have perused to many pages of a particular modelling forum to think critically. 

 

Its like this,   I AM using tamiya paint, but i can see that the supply and demand, and the supply chain isnt working that well.  Hence the interest in the ability to use "student" or artist grade water based acrylic paint as a preference to having to purchase 40-60 dollar "weathering" kits for each period, each nationality, and each season. 

 

Ie  why spend ?

I fully switched to artist paints.

 

Not the student ones, they vary in quality too much.

 

But if you get some high grade paints you can mix your own colors easily. I can give you exact recipes for almost all _{(ok, all the ones I have spectrophotometer readouts for)} of the colors usually needed using Golden Fluid Acrylics - those are ones I use.

 

You will need to do more work to get the same results than you get from readily purchased paints. It lacks all convenience factor, and if you do not have reference colors to mix your own, it may be extra difficult.

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Casey

[masterKamera]

well its like my ryan pt-20. the yellow orange.  the only form of the correct yellow on the market is a spray lacquer from tamiya.. ida be spending 3 times what the 23ml bottle of acrylica flat yellow cost me.  

    Then id be getting lots of specific solvent for lacquer to clean my air brush.

 

I know burnt umber by ab 502 is the preferred oil paint.. but other companies make burnt umber for less..

[Casey]

24 minutes ago, masterKamera said:

well its like my ryan pt-20. the yellow orange.  the only form of the correct yellow on the market is a spray lacquer from tamiya.. ida be spending 3 times what the 23ml bottle of acrylica flat yellow cost me.  

    Then id be getting lots of specific solvent for lacquer to clean my air brush.

 

I know burnt umber by ab 502 is the preferred oil paint.. but other companies make burnt umber for less..

Most paint vendors do not produce pigments, but source them elsewhere. Any special reason why this particular burnt umber is any different than good quality oil paint with burnt umber pigment?

[Marklo]

I’m currently experimenting with pound store black and white acrylics and grey mixes with various quantities of flow enhancer, water and IPA with some success.

 

The preshade black is a mix of tube acrylic black from my local ‘the works’ with water and W&N flow retarder, sprays just fine and works out a fraction of the price of branded model paint.

The CDL mix on my Avro is Tamiya desert yellow, white from the local art shop, some water, some Tamiya. Acrylic thinners and some W&N flow retarder,

Edited August 9, 2022 by Marklo

[ColonelKrypton]

17 minutes ago, Marklo said:

I’m currently experimenting with pound store black and white acrylics and grey mixes with various quantities of flow enhancer, water and IPA with some success.

 

What an interesting topic. I have several comments which I will post with reference to previous postings just so I can keep my thoughts from getting too cluttered.

 

I too have been experimenting ( messing about with or playing with - call it what you will ) on and off for some time. The local dollar store ( Dollarama here in Canada ) sells a small selection of the DecoArt brand Crafters acrylic paints. DecoArt actually has several lines of craft acrylic paints Crafters being just one and Americana another.

 

These are quite good quality acrylic paints in spite of their being made and marketed for the craft market. They are pigment rich, smooth and well blended, handle nicely, and available in a very broad range of colours.  But they are not fine art quality paints in that they are all mixes of various pigments in order to create those fancy colours which they offer. What pigments do they use? Common inexpensive ones no doubt in order keep costs down. Crafters are not so much interested in how colour fast a paint is or whether it is transparent, semi transparent, semi opaque or opaque or whether something is a phthalo blue (green shade) - they are rather more taken by it being called "Copenhagen Blue".

 

These craft acrylic paints, in their rainbow assortments of colours, are not going to have just one pigment in their make up ( with a few exceptions ) but rather will be a mix of several and that is one of the sources of frustration you may run into if you try apply the basic colour theory of mixing colours - i.e. blue and yellow make green, yellow and red make orange, etc.  Already being  a mix of several pigments you may find that you quickly end up with some non-descript muddy colour that you never intended. 

 

Advertised as water clean up ( they are ) but I have found better results for thinning ( or reducing if you prefer ) using Vallejo thinner or airbrush cleaner or Mission Model Products reducer; I am still not sure about using Tamiya X-20A acrylic thinner as it contains alcohol.  For thinning ( reducing ) these paints for airbrushing I have gotten best results using either Liquitex or Golden air brush medium.

 

Sometimes I think "serious modelers" have a bias towards anything other than the name brand model paint lines which may in part be a result of simply not being able to see what other possibilities there may be.

 

 cheers, Graham

 

[ColonelKrypton]

On 7/3/2022 at 12:57 AM, Casey said:

I fully switched to artist paints.

 

Not the student ones, they vary in quality too much.

 

But if you get some high grade paints you can mix your own colors easily. I can give you exact recipes for almost all _{(ok, all the ones I have spectrophotometer readouts for)} of the colors usually needed using Golden Fluid Acrylics - those are ones I use.

 

You will need to do more work to get the same results than you get from readily purchased paints. It lacks all convenience factor, and if you do not have reference colors to mix your own, it may be extra difficult.

 

@Casey, I have been following many of your discussions here on Britmodeller and am inspired by your techniques and knowledge. 

 

In addition to messing about with inexpensive craft type acrylics I have also been using Liquitex and Golden brands of acrylic paints. I do like the Liquitex ( not the Basics line ) soft body and acrylic inks but I think I have preference for the Golden Fluid and High Flow types. 

 

Just recently I have been trying to create a mix using Golden Fluid's to create a Khaki Green G3 for a current project.  I don't have a good reference colour chip but I have been using @Mike Starmer mix based on Tamiya XF- paints as my reference. Nor do I have spectrophotometer so everything is done empirically by eye and comparing the results under various lighting conditions. It is taking numerous iterations but I am getting closer and I do consider this time well spent as I keep learning new things about colours, pigments, and light sources. 

 

@masterKamera I will echo Casey's comments - if you get some good quality artists paints you will find that you can easily mix what want. 

 

cheers, Graham

 

[Marklo]

These are the paints I’ve been using.

 

Oh I forgot my preferred airbrush cleaner is windolene. Much cheaper than brands.

 

I’ve also discovered that Tamiya acrylic thinners are a mix of IPA( aka surgical spirits or rubbing alcohol) water (~10%) and flow retarder. All of which can be had collectively for about half the price if the branded version.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Marklo

[Casey]

2 hours ago, ColonelKrypton said:

Golden Fluid's to create a Khaki Green G3 for a current project

 

I only have descendant this color in form of original British Standard 381C chips from this equivalence table: https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/bs381c_table.shtml

 

No clue how close it is considering the time period difference but I can give you a match for that one, just PM me if you need any of BS 381C colors actually.

 

[ColonelKrypton]

42 minutes ago, Casey said:

I only have descendant this color in form of original British Standard 381C chips from this equivalence table: https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/bs381c_table.shtml

 

No clue how close it is considering the time period difference but I can give you a match for that one, just PM me if you need any of BS 381C colors actually.

 

 

Actually, I will start another thread shortly. I don't mind PM'ing but general topics that others may have an interest in I think are best discussed in an open topic and besides the discussion may just spark some interest in others to discover more about colour theory mixing your own.

 

cheers, Graham

 

[Casey]

1 hour ago, ColonelKrypton said:

Actually, I will start another thread shortly.

I will happily go into the rabbit hole of colors! Bring it on!