Snobbery and greed in hobbies.

[masterKamera]

5 minutes ago, John Laidlaw said:

I'd say it's only snobbery if it's used in an attempt to belittle someone else's efforts. A person can Spend what you like on their own stuff, just as long as they don't try to force others to follow along or to make them feel bad.

so if a modelling forum NOT THIS ONE,  lives on posting paid for "reviews" of kits and add on materials, and has a penchant for heralding those that use those special kits and special aftermarket add ons as being gods of modelling... 

 

then im not supposed to take it as snobbery or elitism... nor should i be taking it as being forced to cough up cash for things that i may not have the physical agility to include in a kit build, say a multi piece joystick like the roden junkers d1..

[John Laidlaw]

22 minutes ago, masterKamera said:

so if a modelling forum NOT THIS ONE,  lives on posting paid for "reviews" of kits and add on materials, and has a penchant for heralding those that use those special kits and special aftermarket add ons as being gods of modelling... 

 

then im not supposed to take it as snobbery or elitism... nor should i be taking it as being forced to cough up cash for things that i may not have the physical agility to include in a kit build, say a multi piece joystick like the roden junkers d1..

From your example there does appear to be a degree of snobbery there, as the implication is that only the best buy those kits and aftermarket.

[NAVY870]

Saw a sticker on a Hilux 4 x 4 yesterday that sums this one up pretty well.

"All the gear and no idea"

[Giorgio N]

If I can be very honest, the feeling I have left after having read the thread is that some people need at least to chill out....

 

Really, most of what has been described here is simply human ! What I'm seeing are simply age old needs of any human being: satisfy one's ego, feel part of something with other human beings and trying to compensate for some real or perceived inferiority.

I'm rich, I want to enter a hobby, no surprise that I'm buying all the most expensive gear. I can do it, why shouldn't I ? Then of course this expensive gear may set me apart from others, something that will likely make me feel good. Anything strange ?

Or the other side, I see the guys with all the expensive gears but I beat them, of course I'm going to feel satisfied, the more satisfied the more expensive the competitor gear is... but really, deep inside me, wouldn't I want to have similar gear myself ? Maybe not but generally the ones who don't simply don't care about the competitor gear. People who are confident in themselves generally try to get their best results from what they can afford at the moment, they may of course try to access better equipment in time but if they can't they'll live with it.

 Things like a "all gear no idea" sticker however are generally the first sign that who put it on is just trying to hide his envy for the more expensive stuff, a bit like those who wear a shirt with something like "I drive an old banger instead of a Ferrari because my d..k is long"... yeah whatever, I'm sure that those who own a Ferrari really give a damn about your t-shirt...

 

Same in this hobby, there are those who claim that only the most recent and expensive kit will do and those who claim that you're a true modeller only if you start from a '60s Airfix or Revell box. To me they are both forms of snobbery, one in the tradition of the "money can buy everything" and the other following the good old "today's kids are having it too easy" path. None of the two is better than the other one (although at least the most recent and expensive kit will generally be more satisfying to build than an old tired mould from 50 years ago).

 

It's a hobby ! Whatever gives us satisfaction is fine, be it throwing hundreds £ into a single kit or building second hand £5 Airfix kits straight from the box. Do you for some reason feel superior to others because you are doing things a certain way ? Fair enough, really it's human, just please have the brain to understand that others may like doung things in a certain way and the decency to not brag excessively about the way you feel. Do you feel the need to counter someones way of doing that you feel is snob ? Well, first of all you should ask yourself why you do it ! Do you do it because by character you follow a very different way? Fair enough, the same as above apply, please remember we are all different. Are you doing it because you are trying to defend a way of doing that you are forced to follow because of lack of skills/money/whatever else ? Well, this is of course very human too ! However in this case I'd suggest looking inside yourself and try to udnerstand where your envy is coming from... finding the answer to such a question may be useful for things much more important than the hobby. Of course some may not find the answer and keep feeling a certain sense of inadequacy for whatever reason.. that is also a very human thing.

 

P.S. sorry if anyone felt offended by this post. If you did... well, sorry but if you did maybe it's just because I hit a sore spot....

[Mr T]

Some interesting points there Giorgio. I have to say that I think a person's motivation and beliefs pay a big part. I don't envy anyone with a Ferrari or other 'flash' car, or want one, because it is something that 1) I am not remotely interested in them as a form of transport, or indeed as objects in their own right 2) The cost of owning and running one seems to me to be a waste of money and resources. Fair enough if they rock your boat, but what makes me tick is different. 

To a degree I take a similar view with modelling. I am impressed by models I see on this forum and elsewhere and I strive in my modelling to achieve decent results and also enjoy a challenge. I am not going to either put someone down because they are not as good as I think I am, or be jealous /envious (as distinct from admiring) of someone elses brilliant model. I think age has bought with some sense of equilibrium and reality. 

[Mike]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

If I can be very honest, the feeling I have left after having read the thread is that some people need at least to chill out....

 

Really, most of what has been described here is simply human ! What I'm seeing are simply age old needs of any human being: satisfy one's ego, feel part of something with other human beings and trying to compensate for some real or perceived inferiority.

I'm rich, I want to enter a hobby, no surprise that I'm buying all the most expensive gear. I can do it, why shouldn't I ? Then of course this expensive gear may set me apart from others, something that will likely make me feel good. Anything strange ?

Or the other side, I see the guys with all the expensive gears but I beat them, of course I'm going to feel satisfied, the more satisfied the more expensive the competitor gear is... but really, deep inside me, wouldn't I want to have similar gear myself ? Maybe not but generally the ones who don't simply don't care about the competitor gear. People who are confident in themselves generally try to get their best results from what they can afford at the moment, they may of course try to access better equipment in time but if they can't they'll live with it.

 Things like a "all gear no idea" sticker however are generally the first sign that who put it on is just trying to hide his envy for the more expensive stuff, a bit like those who wear a shirt with something like "I drive an old banger instead of a Ferrari because my d..k is long"... yeah whatever, I'm sure that those who own a Ferrari really give a damn about your t-shirt...

 

Same in this hobby, there are those who claim that only the most recent and expensive kit will do and those who claim that you're a true modeller only if you start from a '60s Airfix or Revell box. To me they are both forms of snobbery, one in the tradition of the "money can buy everything" and the other following the good old "today's kids are having it too easy" path. None of the two is better than the other one (although at least the most recent and expensive kit will generally be more satisfying to build than an old tired mould from 50 years ago).

 

It's a hobby ! Whatever gives us satisfaction is fine, be it throwing hundreds £ into a single kit or building second hand £5 Airfix kits straight from the box. Do you for some reason feel superior to others because you are doing things a certain way ? Fair enough, really it's human, just please have the brain to understand that others may like doung things in a certain way and the decency to not brag excessively about the way you feel. Do you feel the need to counter someones way of doing that you feel is snob ? Well, first of all you should ask yourself why you do it ! Do you do it because by character you follow a very different way? Fair enough, the same as above apply, please remember we are all different. Are you doing it because you are trying to defend a way of doing that you are forced to follow because of lack of skills/money/whatever else ? Well, this is of course very human too ! However in this case I'd suggest looking inside yourself and try to udnerstand where your envy is coming from... finding the answer to such a question may be useful for things much more important than the hobby. Of course some may not find the answer and keep feeling a certain sense of inadequacy for whatever reason.. that is also a very human thing.

 

P.S. sorry if anyone felt offended by this post. If you did... well, sorry but if you did maybe it's just because I hit a sore spot....

 

There's a lot of common sense in that comment Giorgio, it just needs acknowledgement that there are various levels of self-awareness that may or may not allow people to realise what they're doing is toxic or otherwise.  If everyone could stop, think for a moment and realise when they're being a peanut, the world would be a much happier place.  if only

[masterKamera]

14 hours ago, John Laidlaw said:

I'd say it's only snobbery if it's used in an attempt to belittle someone else's efforts. A person can spend what they like on their own stuff, just as long as they don't try to force others to follow along or to make them feel bad.

aww but that particular forum basically turned itself into a paid advertisement years ago, hence they restated their "review policy" and pointed out, in the most disgusting way, that they were "shocked and surprised" that a member on the site had left their forum due to having HIS independent reviews of model kits removed. 

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

On 7/4/2022 at 4:04 PM, Moggy said:

the search for excellence always begins with an Airfix class 1 kit, a tube of Britfix, hairy sticks and Humbrol paint

 

I remember making the mistake of buying the wrong glue in my childish haste and ignorance. Balsa wood cement ain't the same stuff, I soon discovered.

 

At least I was able to build the kit twice, once with the balsa cement and then, when it fell to pieces with the proper stuff.

[Mike]

11 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

At least I was able to build the kit twice, once with the balsa cement and then, when it fell to pieces with the proper stuff.

You Sir are a proper 'nana!

[Bertie McBoatface]

15 minutes ago, Mike said:

You Sir are a proper 'nana!

To be fair to myself, I was a lot younger in 2013.

[MrB17]

2 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

At least I was able to build the kit twice, once with the balsa cement and then, when it fell to pieces with the proper stuff.

Does anyone remember the Notox citrus based glue in the 70’s? Smelled like lemons. I used it to build the Lindberg Vulcan, one day my bedroom door slammed shut from the wind. The Vulcan “rekitted” itself. Ahh the good old days.

 

Cheers 

Jeff

[lasermonkey]

3 hours ago, MrB17 said:

Does anyone remember the Notox citrus based glue in the 70’s? Smelled like lemons. I used it to build the Lindberg Vulcan, one day my bedroom door slammed shut from the wind. The Vulcan “rekitted” itself. Ahh the good old days.

 

Cheers 

Jeff

Not that one, but I did buy some Ambroid liquid adhesive years ago that was citrus based. I lost most of it due to evaporation, even though the bottle was firmly done up. Never did work out how that happened! I think limoline is the name of the solvent. 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, MrB17 said:

Does anyone remember the Notox citrus based glue in the 70’s? Smelled like lemons. I used it to build the Lindberg Vulcan, one day my bedroom door slammed shut from the wind. The Vulcan “rekitted” itself. Ahh the good old days.

 

Cheers 

Jeff

Ours in the USA smelled like Oranges, and it wasn't worth the $. They still sell a version of it locally and it almost never gets touched (dusty boxes & tubes).

 

15 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

Not that one, but I did buy some Ambroid liquid adhesive years ago that was citrus based. I lost most of it due to evaporation, even though the bottle was firmly done up. Never did work out how that happened! I think limoline is the name of the solvent. 

Ive used it but it never made a solid joint fir me. Best liquid glue Ive ever had was Tenax7R but its not dold anywhere locally. The Tamiya extra thin works but tends to leave brittle joints. And Testors liquid was always to thick other than for stippling cast texture into tanks.  

Edited July 6, 2022 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Mike]

41 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Ours in the USA smelled like Oranges, and it wasn't worth the $. They still sell a version of it locally and it almost never gets touched (dusty boxes & tubes).

I'm not a 100% sure, but it might be Mr Color that do a fruit flavoured glue, although I can't remember if it's lemon or orange.  Why make it smell like something edible?  Some buffoon is just bound to try drinking some

[Troy Smith]

50 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

The Tamiya extra thin works but tends to leave brittle joints. And Testors liquid was always to thick other than for stippling cast texture into tanks.  

Try seeing if they mix.  You can then vary what you want, making use of both their properties. ,  I use glue mixes, say brush on some TET, and then use a some tube glue, TET will thin tube glue, (it's just the little tubes from Airfix starter packs, but works well) , 

Or use a little tube glue to make initial join, giving you a bit of bond ad wiggle room,  and when setting, use capillary action of  TET make a stronger join, it will slightly reactivate the tube stuff.  Sometime I even just run a little bead straight out of the tube... proper old school.  A  little TET then brushed on can even out the tube glue.

 

HTH

[Beardie]

Ah the trouble of glues. I recall buying a kit back in the seventies and the shop didn't have any of the usual glue and so six year old me figures that UHU which they did have was also glue and should work... Well it didn't and I wasn't impressed!

 

Just to derail the thread entirely has anyone else used bottles of Alclad airbrush cleaner (I think) which is in a cloudy plastic bottle? I bought some years ago and it literally vanished out of a sealed and untouched bottle. Having been researching problems with Triumph 955i motorcycle plastic fuel tanks from the late nineties into the 2000's which have a tendency to suffer blisters in the paintwork I discovered that alcohol and other 'thin' volatile fluids and even water (when it's surface tension is broken by alcohol) can actually pass directly through certain plastics such as nylon and polythene. In the case of the fuel tanks ethanol which is routinely added to petrol these days passes through the plastic of the tank to sit under the paint, where, if the temperature drops to freezing or thereabouts, expands and blisters the paint and, in the case of Alclad Airbrush cleaner the fluid itself escapes remarkably quickly when kept reasonably warm.

 

Back on the subject of this thread I must admit that, while I am a huge fan of Wingnuts Wings kits that I am sure some consider were overpriced, it's because they really don't need any Aftermarket as far as I am concerned and I am such a miserable tight fisted penny pincher that After Market would have to be something along the lines of a 100% working to scale engine and flight controls to tempt me and, when it comes to entering competitions I simply don't need it as I am excellent at finding fault with my own creations and so require no outside input. 

[MrB17]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

I'm not a 100% sure, but it might be Mr Color that do a fruit flavoured glue, although I can't remember if it's lemon or orange.  Why make it smell like something edible?  Some buffoon is just bound to try drinking some

When I worked in the hobby shops it wasn’t uncommon to have a couple of unfilled tubes of Testors cement in a case. I sometimes took great delight in getting a reaction from the modellers when I stuck a tube in my nostril and squeezed it flat. Wouldn’t have pulled that on the general public. but I got a lot of weird looks and then laughs, when I fessed up.

 

Cheers

Jeff

[John Laidlaw]

3 hours ago, lasermonkey said:

Not that one, but I did buy some Ambroid liquid adhesive years ago that was citrus based. I lost most of it due to evaporation, even though the bottle was firmly done up. Never did work out how that happened! I think limoline is the name of the solvent. 

It's D-Limonene and is a citrus oil. It's used in the food industry for something-or-other, but is also a good, slow solvent for styrene. Because it's slow, it's very effective for laminating larger sheets of plastic without warping, and there's a lot of time for positioning parts and clamping them. After the join is cured it's as strong as any other styrene solvent join.

 

Tamiya make one, and I'm sure other companies do as well:

 

[masterKamera]

testors non toxic i believe is that fun stuff with a citrus style scent.. that how it has always smelled to me. 

 

Still i wouldnt even do the empty tube trick,  couldnt really because the tubes from the early 90's i had, when they were rolled up and squeezed up, they would glue to themselves internally.

[Bertie McBoatface]

Vallejo paints are perfumed and smell really pleasant. I think this is a brilliant marketing ploy which diverts mums and wives from complaining about our stinks.

 

 

This is the most meanderish thread I've ever seen.

[Troy Smith]

17 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

I remember making the mistake of buying the wrong glue in my childish haste and ignorance. Balsa wood cement ain't the same stuff, I soon discovered.

I remember trying to build an Airfix Firefly using Copydex* ....    

 

But I was 7 and it was the only glue in the house.....   Another retro kit I picked up to actually build properly...  .

 

PS

*For those not of a certain age  or not in the UK, Copydex is a rubber latex glue,  not unlike liquid mask solutions, and I think can be used in place of them.  

[masterKamera]

7 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

Vallejo paints are perfumed and smell really pleasant. I think this is a brilliant marketing ploy which diverts mums and wives from complaining about our stinks.

 

 

This is the most meanderish thread I've ever seen.

but when  you realize the scenting chemicals they use are actually more toxic then modelling glue...  well one has to worry about all the brain damage..

[Bertie McBoatface]

7 minutes ago, masterKamera said:

but when  you realize the scenting chemicals they use are actually more toxic then modelling glue...  well one has to worry about all the brain damage..

That’s not true. Vallejo paints are so non-toxic they see more or less edible.

[John Laidlaw]

1 minute ago, Bertie Psmith said:

That’s not true. Vallejo paints are so non-toxic they see more or less edible.

Can confirm. Hic!

[jackroadkill]

12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

*For those not of a certain age  or not in the UK, Copydex is a rubber latex glue,  not unlike liquid mask solutions, and I think can be used in place of them.  

 

And let's not forget that it smells like proper glue; ammoniac glory!