Snobbery and greed in hobbies.

[stevehnz]

Some good points these last few posts, enough for me to recant the reaction I placed earlier on @Black Knight's post above. The long & the short of it is, no one is being forced to buy at marked up prices, if someone has the cash to shell out & buy up large, taking a risk that their hoped for demand will eventuate, then it is not for me to criticise. Regretting my own lack of entrepreneurship is another matter.

Steve.

[Bullbasket]

There is a difference though. Someone buys up a load of shares, but they don't run out. I believe that somebody (the company?), issue more, and so the company grows. But if Airfix put a load of kits up for sale, and then someone buys up the lot, that's it! Maybe the likes of Airfix, or any other body who may have a sale, should limit the number that one person can buy to say, five?

But in the grand scheme of things, do I really care one way or another. Not really. because the only Airfix kit that I have is their 1/35th Cromwell. They're basically a manufacturer of wingy things.

 

John.

[ckw]

Greed is a very pejorative term. Ultimately capitalism is based on greed ... it simply would not work unless people attempted to make a profit. "Greed is good" as someone said.

 

Brief aside - what's the difference between capitalism and communism?

In capitalism, man exploits his fellow man.

But in communism, it's the other way round.

 

I think the term 'greed' applies when we think the profit is excessive, unreasonable or unfair in some way - it's a judgement call. In some areas, it is identified by most as unreasonable and hence laws are enacted to restrict it. For example, ticket touting.

 

Now the problem with model kits is that there are at least 2 distinct audiences, who place different values on the same item. People like me who value only the model as a completed object, because I intend to build it, and others who consider only its collectable value  - what it might be worth later on. (I'm not making any judgement here, I take a 'collector's view' when it comes to my records). Of course there are extremes - I guess there are many of you who fall somewhere in the middle.

 

I came across an instance of this difference when at a model show Sunday. One trader was selling kits with no prices marked - if you wanted to buy something, he had to look it up on a list. He told me the reason was that price stickers on boxes could damage them, and hence reduce the value for collectors. I did buy a few kits of subjects I wanted to build, but I couldn't help wondering if I was paying a premium for a box which I couldn't care less about. Indeed, there was one item I really wanted but it was (in my view) stupid money as it was an old kit in a nearly pristine box. Of course to a collector the price may have been quite reasonable.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

 

 

[ckw]

17 hours ago, Black Knight said:

 I was just thinking about the 'greed' side of our hobby

I remember back, maybe about 2014 - 2016, Airfix had some clear-out sales

They sold certain kits at very, very cheap prices

There were people who bought up the supply of cheap kits then put them up for sale on ebay at the RRP

 

I wonder if it would make a difference if Airfix had slapped a big 'not for resale' sticker or stamp on the box - make it less appealing for collectors. Though Airfix probably wouldn't care what happened to the kits once they got rid of them.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, Bullbasket said:

wingy things.

Ew!

1 hour ago, Bullbasket said:

1/35th Cromwell

 

Ew, tanky thing!

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, ckw said:

Of course to a collector the price may have been quite reasonable.

 

I've heard that the value of anything is exactly equal to whatever someone will pay for it at that time in that place.

 

I don't know whether that has anything to do with anything we've been nattering about here but I thought I'd bung it in. This has been an interesting 'food for thought' thread on many levels but my butterfly brain is bored with it now. It's time for me to go and build sommat. 👣

[bentwaters81tfw]

3 hours ago, ckw said:

 

 

I came across an instance of this difference when at a model show Sunday. One trader was selling kits with no prices marked - if you wanted to buy something, he had to look it up on a list. He told me the reason was that price stickers on boxes could damage them, and hence reduce the value for collectors. I did buy a few kits of subjects I wanted to build, but I couldn't help wondering if I was paying a premium for a box which I couldn't care less about. Indeed, there was one item I really wanted but it was (in my view) stupid money as it was an old kit in a nearly pristine box. Of course to a collector the price may have been quite reasonable.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

 

 

I believe I have come across this gentleman at shows. I will neither sell him anything from my under table sales, or buy anything from his stand, no matter how much I might want something. I am not alone in regular show attendees.

I'm saying nothing else on here.

[Chimpion]

4 hours ago, ckw said:

 

I wonder if it would make a difference if Airfix had slapped a big 'not for resale' sticker or stamp on the box - make it less appealing for collectors.

I think it would have had the opposite effect - the sticker would have added rarity value.

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

6 hours ago, ckw said:

selling kits with no prices marked

 

I don't trade with anyone under those conditions. I may be paranoid but I expect them to 'find' a price on their list that reflects their estimation of what one can jolly well afford. The boater and spats turn pounds into guineas every time!

[malpaso]

The chap with no prices frequents local shows; there always seem to be a lot more people doing business with his competitors who price their goods!

 

I think @Bertie Psmith has him well-judged; though I think it’s the cravat and monocle that bumps his price up for me…🤣

[Beardie]

I have to admit to something and I am sure people on here who know me will be thoroughly horrified, Over the last two years I have been slowly and painfully forced to sell quite a lot of my beloved Wingnut Wings kits and I am ashamed to say that they have returned more than I paid in general. Yes I love them and they are important  to me but I have needed money to fix and keep my even more beloved 1:1 Triumph motorcycle kits(I consider them to be kits as I have dismantled and reassembled them all several times a year to fix niggling age related problems, both mine and the bikes) on the road and in good condition and I have just disposed of a number more of my kits just recently because I am trying to raise funds to buy a 1:1 Royal Enfield Bullet of some description and, because of this, even though I feel like a swine at the same time, I have been rather grateful that those kits have returned me a bit more than I paid for them. 

 

I have to say though that I think it's the first time in my life I have ever made a profit on anything that I have sold and, over the years, I have bought and sold a lot of stuff with changing hobbies and financial circumstances. 

[MrB17]

And now for something completely different… I’ve been thinking of buying up large quantities of empty tins…hmmm

Cheers

Jeff

[Bertie McBoatface]

4 hours ago, Beardie said:

I have to say though that I think it's the first time in my life I have ever made a profit on anything that I have sold and, over the years, I have bought and sold a lot of stuff with changing hobbies and financial circumstances. 

I know that feeling. I hate to think of the things I have bought with vast enthusiasm and then sold at a loss when I moved on. Sometimes buying another one later in life. 
 

No matter. We keep the economy moving. 
 

I once had a friend who sold kits at shows, a mini trader. One time I helped him pack up his stuff after a show and in the confusion a small scale Academy Titanic ended up in my car with my purchases. He’d been trying to shift it for years and I couldn’t be bothered to walk across the car park so on impulse I offered him a price. He was tired too and sick of the sight of the kit so he said ok and I gave him the money. (Let’s say it was a fiver)

 

Even before I reached home I realised my folly. I didn’t do boats much and never civilian subjects. But there was this new thing called eBay….

 

I listed it and was lucky enough to get the necessary TWO idiots who may well have thought that were bidding on the deluxe larger scale version - they weren’t!

 

It went for about £50. Well over twice RRP. It remains my one and only profit in this hobby. My mate was fuming which was quite reasonable as I couldn’t help mentioning it from time to time (every time I saw him)! 😂

[SafetyDad]

I used to frequent car boot sales looking for kits. Lots of cold, rainy Sunday mornings sifting through piles of tat on stalls after an unreasonably early start to get there. 

One especially wet and cold morning I was about to leave for home when I walked past a chap selling jigsaws in boxes out of the back of his Transit.

One box had emblazoned on the end 'Aurora 2001 Moonbus'

I knew it wasn't a jigsaw so asked him how much it was.

'10p' came the reply.

So I bought it.

Then I realised just how scarce this was and had a very nice feeling.

Some years later my son was after a Mountain Bike for Christmas - we were young, with small children, and money was tight. 

I saw an ad in a modelling mag from a dealer looking for Aurora sci-fi and horror kits (this was before the Internet) so I called him and told him what I had.

He offered me enough money to buy my son's bike outright 

 

Greed on my part? 

I don't think so - my son had the bike for years and still cycles today - he's 38 now

 

SD

[Markh-75]

My sole porpoise🐬 in getting back to modelling was to collect, build and display the models I want to see. I started collecting the Corgi (and other makes) diecast models and soon found that many aircraft were not available, my idea was to have the key aircraft in a few different marques, but I dont want whole squadrons of the same aircraft. I will buy if "I dont have that one" (in diecast or a kit) and if it just so happens to be another 352nd Fg aircraft then so be it. I have a few 4th Fg aircraft too. I have three B-25s but they are all different models, I'd like another A-20 with a top turret but I'll keep my eyes open for it. Its just to show what aircraft the USAAF flew in WW2 and it includes a few British aircraft in USAAF markings. I'd like a second B-26 Marauder, but I can wait. I still have a few naval aircraft to build yet, but I'm in no hurry.

I will only buy a really expensive model if I know I have somewhere to keep it and it doesnt cost me the earth to buy, most of my models have been great deals, but once theyre assembled and painted they will look like 'something else'. I dont buy because I have loads dosh, because I dont; I buy what I can display and I buy the paint and at times the decals for it. I understand that there will be people with lots more money than I'll ever have but I do just fine with what I have. I dont blow all my money on models each month because we have other priorities such as the house and garden, the cars, the mortgage etc.

 

I buy tools and equipment as I need it, I'm not buying tons of things I'll never use, and can make do with things like wooden clothes pegs, bits of sprue, rubber bands, and whatever I find about the place that will come in useful. Above all I am quite happy with what I have, always have been because it has not all just been handed to me, I've had to save, and budget for things, thus I appreciate them better. I'm quite happy as I am. I dont look down on people because I have this or that, I never criticise other peoples built models; simply because I dont like when people criticise mine. (a bit like people who live in glass houses, they shouldn't throw stones).

 

There is snobbery in most ventures out there, I used to do alot of road cycling and had a very up to date bike, but I never posed it to look better than anyone elses, there were people who had THE latest bike with THE latest equipment on and they did laud it over others; I can't be bothered with people like that, I might like what I see but I'm happy with what I have. Or at least, I was, I dont ride now and dont have the bike.

 

I very much enjoy looking at my aircraft, it pleases me, I dont have the biggest collection in the world; but I'm happy with wot I have.🙂

[jenko]

Any chance this thread could go more up market??

 

Dick

[SafetyDad]

12 hours ago, jenko said:

Any chance this thread could go more up market??

 

Dick

 

I'll take that challenge Dick

 

There's been quite a bit posted about the obvious greed and snobbery, but what about the other side of these concepts - generosity and help?

 

Over the years I've been very struck by how generous some modellers can be - I once asked for some 1/32 FW numerals on another site and a chap from Texas sent me an almost complete EagleCals sheet! I'm an optimistic sort, and I believe that, while our hobby has its poorer behaviours on occasions, there are more compensating examples of generosity of spirit out there. 

 

SD

[Bertie McBoatface]

6 minutes ago, SafetyDad said:

 

I'll take that challenge Dick

 

There's been quite a bit posted about the obvious greed and snobbery, but what about the other side of these concepts - generosity and help?

 

Over the years I've been very struck by how generous some modellers can be - I once asked for some 1/32 FW numerals on another site and a chap from Texas sent me an almost complete EagleCals sheet! I'm an optimistic sort, and I believe that, while our hobby has its poorer behaviours on occasions, there are more compensating examples of generosity of spirit out there. 

 

SD

I like this comment much more than a simple click on the ‘heart button’ would say. 

We modellers are a varied bunch but most of us are the kind of person that @SafetyDad describes. We really ought to celebrate  ourselves and where better than here? 

[jenko]

Have to totally agree 99.9% of modellers are helpful and considerate to each other.  The number of times I've  been stuck with a subject and the averlanch of help is heart warming. Also knowing when to be very serious  and not. If you can't take a joke this the wrong hobby and wrong forum for you.

 

Dick

 

Ps I was joking about going up market.... lets bring it down to our level 🤣🤣🤣

Edited July 14, 2022 by jenko

[John_W]

14 hours ago, jenko said:

Any chance this thread could go more up market??

 

Dick

No, let's set ourselves some achievable goals....

[Markh-75]

Yup, I'll do that! 

I have been on a few forums and groups for modelling and while there have been a few notable exceptions, I didnt otherwise find them that helpful; always seemed to feel like a race to see who could build the most or the best. Any issues and I felt like I was on my own.

 

Since returning to Britmodeller though I have had some brilliant help and support! Any time I have asked for it it has always been forthcoming, when I had doubts about a build I was always encouraged to keep moving forward, with suggestions on how I could fix this or that, brilliant feedback on my WIP posts and on my RFI's. People have been kind in welcoming me back and have helped in other ways too; I always try to give back when people have helped me out, parts for a model, a tin of paint, whatever.

Yes ALL modellers here have been helpful, encouraging in many ways and supportive and I dont ever forget that!

[Bertie McBoatface]

Many of us are a bit on the geeky side I think? I certainly am, and I really have to work hard on the old social skills. On line, it's not so bad because I have a little time to think but in person I'm often dismayed by the dumb stuff that floods out of my mouth when I'm excited. 

 

There are occasional arguments here on BM but almost always you can see that they started with some misunderstanding or abruptness that happened because somebody got a bit passionate. We can be a bit child-like at times in our playground spats, but the other side of that coin is our real child-like enthusiasm for the hobby that brings us all so much joy.

 

🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀

 

^🎼 If you're cheesy and you know it clap your hands.... 

 

[jackroadkill]

I've never been on another modelling forum before (plenty of experience of other forums, for better or worse...) but have to say that I've no intention of looking for another.  Like many BM'ers I hadn't built a kit since my teens, and on a whim decided to build one during lockdown (the original, not the cruddy sequels).  Casting about for some advice, I happened upon BM, and 1.6k posts later am still here.  I've found the vast majority of members to be open, friendly and helpful.  Indeed, during my first build @ProfSparks sent me some decals to replace ones I'd messed up - gratis.  I've had huge amounts of patient advice given to me and have never been on the end of any sort of unpleasantness.

 

Hopefully I can be as useful to other folk at some point; my knowledge and skills are not much compared to some on here, but you never know!

[Neil.C]

Another cheer for a great group of members!

 

I've been helped out in various ways since I have been on here and received some decals from some friendly coves and even a complete model from a very nice chap called Peter.

 

I've tried to give back by donating Airfix tokens and unwanted decal sets myself to keep the good karma going.

 

All in all,  very nice band of fellows.

[John_W]

5 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

Many of us are a bit on the geeky side I think? I certainly am, and I really have to work hard on the old social skills.

 

I agree. Despite this, many of us seem to be married or have a SWMBO in the wings. Perhaps we have a mysterious  aura that attracts women?

Maybe the mods could bottle and sell "Eau de Brittmodeller"