Snobbery and greed in hobbies.

[MikeC]

If I can put another side, what really makes me despair is that as well as the snobbery, there is also the inverse snobbery that occurs - again it happens in every hobby I've ever dabbled in, and certainly in modelling.  This is manifest in, for example, the people who say things like: "Well I still use a hairy stick on my vintage Airfix series one kits, stick the transfers on, and don't care if it resembles the real thing, I'm not a joyless rivet-counter.  BTW, are you going to the Nationals at Telford?"  Still, as others have said, people enjoy their hobby in different ways, and there's no point in letting oneself get wound up over it (that last is addressed as much to myself as anyone else).

 

I'm a member of a club that had a certain reputation for "elitism", but I went along with an open mind, and I'm still there several years later, having found a warm, welcoming, friendly and open club.  Isn't it as much about one's own attitude as other peoples', perhaps?

[Seahawk]

3 hours ago, MikeC said:

I'm a member of a club that had a certain reputation for "elitism", but I went along with an open mind, and I'm still there several years later, having found a warm, welcoming, friendly and open club.  Isn't it as much about one's own attitude as other peoples', perhaps?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the word but I have no problem with elitism, if it means the pursuit of excellence. I am delighted that there are other modellers infinitely more talented than I who are stretching the envelope of what is achievable in scale modelling.  I am constantly reminded on this board and others that, while others may consider me dangerously obsessed, there are people out there who evidently and quite happily care more about their models than I wish to.  Sometimes I feel inspired, sometimes demoralised by the skill shown by people apparently equipped with Mark 47 eyes and hands instead of the Mark Is I have. As you say, it’s as much about your own attitude as that of others.  I build what I like to timescales that suit me to standards I am happy with (or, more usually, not).  But being patronised does still grate at times.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Seahawk

[MikeC]

3 hours ago, Seahawk said:

I have no problem with elitism, if it means the pursuit of excellence

Indeed, me neither.  I find the really excellent models and modellers inspiring, and I do try to improve with every model (see the quote from a great musician (and qualified football referee) in my signature).  But sneering at the efforts of those less skilled just isn't on, and in my book neither is sneering at those more skilled than oneself.  Model and let model, there's room for us all.

[John_W]

14 hours ago, jackroadkill said:

Man, you guys should try competitive airgun shooting!  It's fun when folks talk down to you because you shoot with a rig consisting of a spring-powered rifle made up of used parts and a second-hand scope that come to £350 in total, whilst telling you that unless you can afford to drop three or four grand on a rife and scope combo you haven't got a hope.  What's even more fun is when you comprehensively outshoot them and then listen while they explain that the conditions don't suit their rifle, or that their pellets came from a shonky batch, or that their mum didn't pack their favourite shooting mat....

 

Elitism has no place in a hobby; people should only ever be encouraged by others.  I'm glad to say that I've experienced plenty of that here.

Friend of mine shoots Full Bore at Bisley. He owns a couple of "vintage" rifles that are well looked after, but have seen better days. Put another shooters nose well out of joint shooting better scores with his 1940 Ross Rifle and open sights than the guy with the brand new L96 and £3,000 scope.

"All the gear, no idea" is way too common in hobbies. Thankfully I have always seemed to manage to join clubs and forums with members of the more "down to earth" variety.

 

[PhantomBigStu]

Not experienced it on here, but when I first entered the hobby was told to my face that only children use acrylics with a brush, actual adults use an airbrush and enamels

[MikeC]

1 hour ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Not experienced it on here, but when I first entered the hobby was told to my face that only children use acrylics with a brush, actual adults use an airbrush and enamels

Well I use an airbrush, and I use nothing but acrylics: does that make me an adolescent?  😆

[Des]

Has long been a sign of the affluent times in which we live among perhaps a loud minority in most hobby fields that if you've got it flaunt it , 'attention' is all.

 

Used to spend time hovering around a couple of military aviation photo websites but eventually they became a showground for those with the most expensive kit taking fantastic photos but absolutely no idea what the subject was - their chosen subject at the moment is aircraft but could just as easily been trains , butterflies or whatever.     Now find that my now occasional visits there are confined to the 'Vintage' sections covering older subjects taken with more modest equipment at a time when the photography tended to be ancillary to a wider interest and knowledge in aviation itself.

 

Applied to modelling the same can happen perhaps if one has come to the hobby more recently or is easily influenced by fashion.      For some the much wider variety of finishing products and the like seems to imply that what went before is redundant , likewise to some there are manufacturers whose products are beyond question while there are older kits which solely by reason of age are obviously rubbish and where every new release must have its attendant crop of detail/replacement resin/etch/decals.      Wonder how many Border Models Lancasters will be bought and aftermarket accumulated purely because of the cost?

 

" Why would you want to build an 1970s Airfix thingummy straight from the box brush painted using Humbrol enamels when everyone knows that whoever's latest kit with added whatnots finished of course using the latest airbrush techniques and the trending 'authentic' pastels , paints and powders is the only way for a real modeller to do it ?     Oh , and don't even think of that new kit coming out next year , the artist's impression shows that the urinal tube is definitely in the wrong place ! "

 

In our society one-upmanship to some extent or another seems to be part of the human condition for some in every field of activity , have always found that there is no reasoning with those so inclined so just keep smiling , don't make eye contact  , keep your back to a wall and sidle slowly towards the door and leave them to it  . . . . .  or is that just being snobbish?

               

[IanC]

14 hours ago, Black Knight said:

a past-it biker too. The snobbery I used to get from others because of my Honda Deauville or Kawasaki 550F.1. Both 'working' bikes, as in they earned their keep. Snobbery from certain others, but not the road racing committees who reckoned the Dullvil er Deauville one of the best bikes for road-closed checks at road races

 

 

I ride a Deauville! Had it from new and it's on 77,000 miles.  In fact, I've had three of them. Used for long distance commuting (about 16,000 miles a year when i was going into London five days a week) and touring. One of the best bikes in the universe, in my humble opinion - reliable, comfy, quick enough and handles well.

 

There's a great YouTube video of some bloke on one overtaking everyone on a track. It's not what you ride, it's how you ride it...etc 😀

 

 

 

[Seahawk]

6 minutes ago, IanC said:

. It's not what you ride, it's how you ride it...etc 😀

 

I used to say that when I had a Nissan Micra.

[IanC]

15 hours ago, Skodadriver said:

 

I don't know if it's the economic climate or if riders are just getting fed up with over-specified, over-priced and over-hyped motorbikes but in the last few years there has been a very welcome trend towards smaller, simpler and cheaper machines. 

 

 

Absolutely. Hence the huge popularity of the brilliant Honda CB500X, for example, (which I think 'Itchy Boots' now rides?) 

[Vince1159]

4 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

only children use acrylics with a brush, actual

Suits me fine i've always acted like a 12 year old....

[Mr T]

23 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

 

I used to say that when I had a Nissan Micra.

I had a Micra, a  pre Renault one, good little car, eventually the Engine Control Unit went on it and a new one would cost four times the car was the worth. Its replacement? A Skoda Citigo. Gets me from A to B cheaply and no road tax. 

[masterKamera]

OOOOO i love a good gripe thread.   Oh god how i luvs them. Like cocoa, rum, and a frisky ski bunny. 

 

When it comes to the photography forums, they are all,,,,, USELESS....   They have all gone down three roads of philosophy

 

1. Its all about camera gear,  its funny when you get your profile deleted because you suggested a 7-900$ apsc or full frame single lens reflex to a person trying to find one....   because you "dared" not to tell the person trying to get a basic SLR kit under 1,000  to go buy an 8,000$ mirrorless camera body and a minimum of 5,000$ in lenses.

 

2. photo shop is mandatory.  On these camera forums just saying you dont use photoshop actually gets you put on moderator watchlists for "heavy censorship". 

 

3. Heavy politics. All based on a very hardline stalin esque theology of wokedom.   

      If you do not agree you will be destroyed.

[treker_ed]

I came across a certain type of snobbery today.

 

I called into a LMS whilst on holiday, in the South of England. I was trying to help a lady and (I assumed due to the conversation) her grandson with some information on choice of kits. Which were the better ones to get over other manufacturers, planes over targets... oh sorry, AFV's, and had commented that the Revell Lancaster that they had hold off was known for having dimensional inaccuracies, but a simple build, as opposed to the Airfix was better dimensionally, but harder to build due to tighter tolerances due to the way it had been designed. They also asked about Tamiya kits. All of a sudden, some other, older gentlemen piped into the conversation that Tamiya was the best, as they are known to be "shake and bake" and to get that - Airfix are rubbish, full of pin holes, mould mis-match etc! 

 

He just was not for having the fact that other brands are just as good, or can be better at things, or that Airfix (when they get things right) are good at what they do. His attitude was that Tamiya are the Dogs whatsits...... I have a feeling that this put the lady off a little bit as at that point they started to get a little dis-interested and just picked up an AFV and left! 

 

Whilst I appreciate that Tamiya kits can be of excellent quality, I have had a few older kits that were definitely not "shake and bake" and have had to dispose of one or two in the past as they were so badly warped that the fuselage parts would not even go together properly! It could have been how they were stored, but the plastic was very warped and mis-aligned. 

[Mike]

I've had a quick look through all this, as it's a red-flag to the Mods, because it's a possible route to arguments (yes, some irony there), as people often differ in their opinions, and some folks can't seem to understand that other people have different opinions than them, and certainly don't think that's OK.  Everyone should carry out their hobby in exactly the same way as they do!  It is the law!

 

Here at Britmodeller we're not into snobbery, as it's just the fun of our hobby and the camaraderie that we're interested in.  If you paint with a yard brush and textured masonry paint after cobbling together your latest kit with clout nails we might wonder about your sanity, but everyone else that's doing their best and having fun is the name of the game.  If you're doing your best, or even if you're not there's a place for you here, just as long as you're nice and polite, and show respect to your follow modellers.

 

When you think about it, our hobby is just a microcosm of the larger world.  There are horrible people in the world and in our hobby, but there are also lovely people, and many in between.  We're lucky that we get a lot of lovely people here (not you, obviously ), and many of the in-between ones.  The horrible ones don't last long here, and anyone that strays a bit close to the horrible side might find themselves in trouble.  Stay there too long and it's bye-bye time.  We don't like doing that, but we have to for the sanity of the rest of us.

 

I do my models when I can as best I can, and if that's not good enough for you, tough bosoms

[lasermonkey]

7 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Not experienced it on here, but when I first entered the hobby was told to my face that only children use acrylics with a brush, actual adults use an airbrush and enamels

I use enamels and an airbrush and my wife is adamant that I’m a child!

[AdrianMF]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

after cobbling together your latest kit with clout nails

So what’s wrong with clout nails all of a sudden, eh?? 

 

I have to say that Britmodeller is by a large margin the most accepting, supportive and balanced forum I’ve ever dipped into, and there’s room for everyone from master modellers to clout nailing obsolete kit hairy stickers like me (nails are very good for weighting noses and bases - ask me how I know!!).

 

When I come across exclusionary elitists of any variety, I comfort myself with the thought that those people are denying themselves the joy of just having fun. It’s a hobby!

 

On that topic, have you ever seen anyone smiling in a serious model railway shop? Nope, me neither…

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

 

[jackroadkill]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

If you paint with a yard brush and textured masonry paint after cobbling together your latest kit with clout nails we might wonder about your sanity

 

You might be the boss, Mike, but I don't remember giving you permission to peer in through my windows.  Now I know who left the footprints in my flower beds, don't I?!

 

2 hours ago, Mike said:

tough bosoms

 

Hey, any bosom in a storm!

[FLCH]

Agreed BM is one the most down to earth modeling sites ! I’m unable to even come close to some of the beautiful works of art that are shown here, but everyone is so accepting. Lots of snobbery in groups I associate with….especially the Porsche 911 group, most of us look for the most practical and sensible approach to working on our cars, there’s some that have the “If you have to ask the price then you shouldn’t ask” group but they make great targets of our collective ire. I was in an RC airplane group that had a fantastic “pilot” that would control his planes like no other, but wouldn’t talk to me as I was a beginner, I forgot to mention to him that I’m a Captain at United Airlines on the 767, but that’s ok 😂 

[Seahawk]

5 hours ago, Mr T said:

I had a Micra, a  pre Renault one, good little car, eventually the Engine Control Unit went on it and a new one would cost four times the car was the worth. Its replacement? A Skoda Citigo. Gets me from A to B cheaply and no road tax. 

Briilliant little car, M reg, never let me down.  Eventually after 13 years or so completely stress-free motoring, I was told it would need welding work around the front to get through the MoT.  "How much will the welding cost?"  "£400"  "How much will it be worth once the welding is done?" "About £400."  Eventually got rather more than that for it in part-ex before the MoT was up.  Still, that was in part-ex for a Peugeot so I reckon I was done.

 

But we digress.

[PLC1966]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:37 PM, Latinbear said:

I agree with many of the points raised above. Unfortunately, I think all hobbies and interests are subject to the oneupmanship (is that one word or separate words?) and greed crowds. But I think there are another couple of categories too: the obsessives and the competitors. I love being around aircraft and taking pictures of them but I find those who obsess about doing it to be quite hard work. Even more annoying are those for whom it's an unofficial competition. We all know the type. Whatever you've done, they've done it better, bigger or more frequently and go out of their way to tell you so.

Aaargh. the classic you went to Tenerife for a holiday and they went to Eleveneriffe....

[Beardie]

I suppose there will always be those who strive to 'win' at all costs in all walks of life and, in their minds, if they have more cash to splash and that gives them an 'edge' then all is good in their world and the most worrying thing for them is that someone might come along who can do impressive things simply because they have incredible talent with minimal or 'outdated' equipment and who they will never beat at the game and so the only course of action left to them is to try and destroy or otherwise force out that 'threat'. I suppose the reality is that we are in a human race and so competition is something that is a natural part of the species. My problem is that I just have never been a competitive person and contrary to boot so whatever direction everyone else is moving you will usually find me going in the opposite direction. I am fairly sure that 'Does Not Play Well With Others' has been noted on files about me many times over my existence. 

 

I thought the thing now was to use Acrylics with Airbrush and that Enamels were 'old hat'? I use Enamels simply because I have always found the way they behave and their forgiving nature suits me and I have an affinity for oil based paints of all types that I have never managed to find with Acrylics. In fact I am hopeless with acrylics and admire those who produce excellent work with them.  

[Chimpion]

I confess to being a little torn. I can understand that in any field, there are those who love the high level of competitive participation. These people may find the activities of those of a lower skill or commitment level a little boring at best. But everyone has to start somewhere, and many hobbies are struggling to maintain the critical mass of new entrants to preserve the clubs and events. Those wanting to develop should be supported and encouraged. There's also a place for those who enjoy the social aspects and aren't interested in improving, but it might not be the same place. Irrespective of this, there's no excuse for rudeness or condescension.

I'm a member of a local bridge club and play in the top division of a local league - I want to be able to play in my local club with others who take the game seriously and stick to the rules. There are others who just want to socialize and don't care whether they're following the correct etiquette. It's difficult to balance the interests of both groups, but splitting into two clubs would make both unviable in terms of the membership numbers.

I'm not a member of a model club, but if I were to join, it would be purely for the social side - I've never had the skills to compete.

Being on both sides in my two hobbies helps me to see the perspective of both sides, and I am convinced that simple respect and courtesy can go a long way to bridge the gap. As others have said, we're all there to have fun, even if how we get the enjoyment and fulfillment might differ. What do I gain from spoiling the enjoyment of others?

 

 

[masterKamera]

For giggles, and to keep politics down... 

 

Have you ever read through the online pages of the various shaving forum's?  never can get a better laugh then watching adults argue over the "proper" way to hold a razor, or how to place your fingers upon thy shaving brush as thou coat your face in lather. Even better to read the novels written in anger between each other over how certain soaps like Williams Mug Shaving Soap  or Erasmic can get. 

 

 

[hairystick]

5 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

So what’s wrong with clout nails all of a sudden, eh?? 

It confuses the rivet-counters as they are far too similar in appearace under a coat of paint...