Jump to content

Snobbery and greed in hobbies.


RobL

Recommended Posts

Well this is a bit of a rant I guess...

 

For a while now I've been coming across several unsavoury aspects in a couple of the hobbies I engage in.  I currently have two main hobbies, video gaming, in particular sim racing, and miniature figure painting (which I also supplemented with scale modelling up until a few years ago).

 

Taking sim racing as an example.  In recent years, in particular with the rise of online e-sports series, there seems to have been a rise in the attitude that if you're not running a powerful computer and don't use an expensive wheel and pedal set you have no business partaking in the hobby.  There seems to be an expectation that you have a certain above average level of equipment and money to throw around, regardless of your ability to be competent at the game.

 

Using miniature figure painting as an example, there's a collecting element to it.  Many older figures go for stupid prices on popular auction sites, much like OOP scale model kits.  It's perhaps not quite as bad as some other hobbies though.  Recently I came across a youtuber who was discussing what Lego kits people should be "investing" in.  The comments section was full of people talking about how one should determine what kits will be valuable and go out and hoover them all up, sit on them, wait for Lego to retire them, then flip them for significant profits.

 

New miniature figure box set releases by a certain company suffer from that same mentality, with scalpers hoovering up releases, which the company make limited on purpose to increase FOMO.  I once had a guy on another forum try to tell me that you should be expected to have £200+ per month to dump on new products or you can forget about being in the hobby!?!

 

I find it rather vulgar, objectionable, and disgraceful.

 

I was taught as a kid, as I'm sure many of us were, that we share our toys with each other.  Somewhere along the line, between childhood and kidulthood that message seems to have been lost on a lot of people it would seem - I don't recall the message being "go and hoover all the toys up so that no-one else has any, then expect significant remuneration from people who would like to play with those toys".

 

I also thought that in today's society that we are all supposed to be about inclusion, and yet there seems to be a lot of gatekeeping, instituted by selfish moderately wealthy people, and their hangers on, against the less wealthy, when it comes to certain hobbies that until recently were relatively inexpensive to partake in.

 

Of course it's pointless trying to explain the reprehensible nature of said people's mentality, because inevitably they are blinkered and refuse to understand and comprehend.

 

 

Thank you in advance for indulging me in my rant, feel free to discuss, although I don't feel I have anything further to add.

Edited by RobL
  • Like 16
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's the same for any hobby,i mainly collect diecast aircraft,your comment about Lego could have something to do with Scouting for Toys on the Yesterday channel (watch it once and you're an expert for some people,same as Flog It)but in today's society it boils down to one thing greed and the chance to make a few quid as quick as possibe....On Scouting for Toys someone said that people were phoning up asking if their collection of Beanie Babies was worth a fortune as they had a lot,worth as much as a Steiff bear no chance...

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hear ya on snobbery

Once upon a time I was in a 'Camera Club',  a photography club

The committee, including the competition secretary and judges all used Leica cameras.

Anyone who did not use a Leica automatically lost a lot of points in the weekly photo competition and those who did use a Leica got bonus points

Guess who won every photo competition every week and lifted the trophies at the end of the season?

It was so much better when I moved to another area and joined its Camera Club. Absolutely no snobbery. Photos judged on their quality only. In fact one chap regularly won the competitions with photos from a £5 disposable camera

 

Also a friend of mine totally ruined a small RC car racing club. Originally It was not a proper club but he made it one, appointed himself chairman and introduced rules, Some of this was ok until he introduced a rule of which RC cars could be used. All priced over £150. This changed the nature of the 'club' most of whom were youngsters racing basic RC cars priced about £25 - £30. Also these youngsters had got together raised money and persuaded the local council to make them a dirt racing track in the corner of the local park. They were now 'banned' from their own race track!

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RobL said:

Taking sim racing as an example.  In recent years, in particular with the rise of online e-sports series, there seems to have been a rise in the attitude that if you're not running a powerful computer and don't use an expensive wheel and pedal set you have no business partaking in the hobby.  There seems to be an expectation that you have a certain above average level of equipment and money to throw around, regardless of your ability to be competent at the game.


 

This is THE main reason I left the IPMS and competition's in 2005. If you didn't buy/use the latest greatest model. Or every last piece of available aftermarket, you were ignored and shunned at shows and competitions. With zero regard for your abilities to build, or scratch-build anything. 

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is an interesting comment re IPMS. At SMW, scratch built models regularly win, and quite a few are to be found in competition and on Branch tables

In the eighties, I did get the impression that there were some modellers who regarded themselves as an 'elite', and I have seen some comments on various sites that were quite dismissive of others efforts. 

I think there are always people who either see a hobby or pastime as a way to make easy money (and I don't mean the army of dedicated people who spend a lot time and effort to make our hobby more enjoyable) or see it as an opportunity to show how much 'better' they are. 

Me, I build models because I am interested in the subject matter and I enjoy it. 

I realise you are referring to across the pond. They do seem to take themselves very seriously from what I gather.

Edited by Mr T
Additional clarifying comment
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:


 

This is THE main reason I left the IPMS and competition's in 2005. If you didn't buy/use the latest greatest model. Or every last piece of available aftermarket, you were ignored and shunned at shows and competitions. With zero regard for your abilities to build, or scratch-build anything. 

 

11 minutes ago, Mr T said:

That is an interesting comment re IPMS. At SMW, scratch built models regularly win, and quite a few are to be found in competition and on Branch tables . . . 

I think, and I have noticed, a difference in opinion between IPMS USA and IPMS UK

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

 

I think, and I have noticed, a difference in opinion between IPMS USA and IPMS UK


 

 

20 minutes ago, Mr T said:

That is an interesting comment re IPMS. At SMW, scratch built models regularly win, and quite a few are to be found in competition and on Branch tables

In the eighties, I did get the impression that there were some modellers who regarded themselves as an 'elite', and I have seen some comments on various sites that were quite dismissive of others efforts. 

I think there are always people who either see a hobby or pastime as a way to make easy money (and I don't mean the army of dedicated people who spend a lot time and effort to make our hobby more enjoyable) or see it as an opportunity to show how much 'better' they are. 

Me, I build models because I am interested in the subject matter and I enjoy it. 

 

Yes I should have noted I was referring to the U.S. branch of the IPMS, particularly the midwest region groups. They seemed at the time to be private clubs and only allowed outsiders in due to IPMS rules. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:


 

This is THE main reason I left the IPMS and competition's in 2005. If you didn't buy/use the latest greatest model. Or every last piece of available aftermarket, you were ignored and shunned at shows and competitions. With zero regard for your abilities to build, or scratch-build anything. 

I think you must have been in a different IPMS to the one I was, and still am, a member of. Edit: just seen that you're not referring to IPMS(UK).

Edited by MikeC
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with many of the points raised above. Unfortunately, I think all hobbies and interests are subject to the oneupmanship (is that one word or separate words?) and greed crowds. But I think there are another couple of categories too: the obsessives and the competitors. I love being around aircraft and taking pictures of them but I find those who obsess about doing it to be quite hard work. Even more annoying are those for whom it's an unofficial competition. We all know the type. Whatever you've done, they've done it better, bigger or more frequently and go out of their way to tell you so. As a consequence I find myself restricting my aircraft photography social circle to a small group of people for whom it's a hobby that they derive pleasure from and happily share experiences in a matter of fact way rather than "You might have photographed a space shuttle but I've flown in one" way (unless they have of course in which case I'll buy the beer and let them talk because I'd love to hear all about it).

 

It's obviously a personal view but for me a hobby or hobbies is/are good things to have that should be about enjoyment and relaxation. 

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose it comes with most human activities at times. I confess I haven’t seen it that often if at all in this hobby but then I’m not a club member and don’t do competitions. 
I know it would get stood on here by the Mods thankfully which is what makes this a nice place to be at

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a reflection; several years ago I joined a US based Model Car Building internet forum. Supposed to be for 'anyone who likes to build model cars'

I never went back on to it after just a few visits. There was some very unbelievable snobbery, arrogance and some down right aggression because I do not usually build 1/25 US cars but mainly 1/32 cars of any type

~~~ 1/32, a toy car scale, not a real scale; only 'real' modellers build in 1/25 - 1/24

you get the idea

 

btw, we sometimes get the snobbery on my leatherwork forum. eg if you don't use the latest Cowboy 3500 sewing machine you are a looser etc. Others on there are very sharp to them and see them off. Unlike here, over there we allow very rude language

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once upon a time there was a new modelling club in Belfast. I don't know if still exists. But their whole aim was to build models to win awards and medals. They once had a good membership. An ex-my club member was drawn to them and left my club, because 'we don't focus on competitions'

Anyway, this friend had over the years picked up numerous Gold, Silver, Bronze, Commendations awards at SMW, the Scots Nationals and the Ireland IPMS. 

He was chucked out of this club because he had not won an award in about one year. 

He never got a refund on his membership fee, which was very high and which he had just paid.

He claimed that he thought they were joking but when he turned up for the next club meeting two bully boys literally threw him out

Snobbery in the extreme?

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, you guys should try competitive airgun shooting!  It's fun when folks talk down to you because you shoot with a rig consisting of a spring-powered rifle made up of used parts and a second-hand scope that come to £350 in total, whilst telling you that unless you can afford to drop three or four grand on a rife and scope combo you haven't got a hope.  What's even more fun is when you comprehensively outshoot them and then listen while they explain that the conditions don't suit their rifle, or that their pellets came from a shonky batch, or that their mum didn't pack their favourite shooting mat....

 

Elitism has no place in a hobby; people should only ever be encouraged by others.  I'm glad to say that I've experienced plenty of that here.

  • Like 14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mr T said:

Me, I build models because I am interested in the subject matter and I enjoy it. 

 

Same here.  And I shall continue to do so regardless of the attitudes of others.  Which is just as well given the condescending attitude, if not scorn, directed at people who don't own airbrushes (obviously not serious modellers, then) and do small-scale AFVs (aka "toys": evidently among AFV modellers, size is important).  Their problem, not mine.

Edited by Seahawk
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, jackroadkill said:

Elitism has no place in a hobby; people should only ever be encouraged by others.  I'm glad to say that I've experienced plenty of that here.

 

47 minutes ago, JohnT said:

I know it would get stood on here by the Mods thankfully which is what makes this a nice place to be at

This is the only reason I’m proud to say this is my only modeling forum. That my 5th anniversary was on the 27th of this month also says a bit. 

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

The committee, including the competition secretary and judges all used Leica cameras.

I have heard expensive camera-gear described as "male jewelry". I think some people forget that some of the most historic, iconic and influential images of all time were taken using a wooden-box, with a lens bolted to the front. I doubt Ansel Adams would have much truck with modern "camera snobbery". 

 

Cheers.

 

Chris. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have a club that's has a welcoming inclusive, enthusiastic atmosphere where all modellers are welcome; the idea that someone is a "better" modeller because whoever it is has the money for the most expensive accoutrements is ridiculous.

 

One way to measure prowess in modelling is a function of the modellers talent both technical and artistic displayed in his/hers latest creations - not how expensive the kit/tools/whatever in whoever's posession are. However this does not mean that others are any "less" modellers; we are ALL real modellers regardless of results. One of the more enjoyable parts of modelling is sharing resources, techniques, knowledge - and ideas! 😜

 

Enthusiasm and having fun goes before anything else in a hobby. 😎

 

The club's most important function is to promote a relaxed fun atmosphere in which to stimulate our favourite hobby (and camaraderie among those afflicted by the same obsession - sticking little pieces of plastic together into an object of our interest. :)

 

The rat race mentality should be checked out at the door. 😇

 

Cheers, Moggy

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Once upon a time there was a new modelling club in Belfast. I don't know if still exists. But their whole aim was to build models to win awards and medals. They once had a good membership. An ex-my club member was drawn to them and left my club, because 'we don't focus on competitions'

Anyway, this friend had over the years picked up numerous Gold, Silver, Bronze, Commendations awards at SMW, the Scots Nationals and the Ireland IPMS. 

He was chucked out of this club because he had not won an award in about one year. 

He never got a refund on his membership fee, which was very high and which he had just paid.

He claimed that he thought they were joking but when he turned up for the next club meeting two bully boys literally threw him out

Snobbery in the extreme?


Was instantly reminded of ………..

 

I sent the club a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.

Groucho Marx,”

 

 

or some other variation of what is quoted as saying :D

 

 

  • Like 5
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think one issue is that, as in all things, people have different needs. Some modellers like to enter competitions, I haven't for nearly forty years because it doesn't rock my boat. If that what they like, fair enough, but it doesn't mean we all have to model or whatever we do as relaxation to win something. I was appalled by the story of the model club in Belfast as that seems to suck any enjoyment right out of a hobby. If you are worrying about having to produce a model that must win to remain in what is effectively a clique, you are heading into some pretty dodgy mental health territory. My hobby is important to me as it has helped me weather some pretty bad storms, and helps keep me going, but it is not the only thing going on in my life. 

 

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Despite my stage name I have ridden a motorbike for most of my adult life. The motorcycling world has long been a fertile area for elitists and snobs, aided and abetted in no small measure by most of the manufacturers. I have never wanted or owned a bike larger than 650cc and I get serious red mist any time I hear a machine of that size dismissed as a "beginner's bike" or, in what appears to be the ultimate insult, a bike for "lady riders". (The latter disrespects the fantastic exploits of many female motorcyclists like the Dutch girl who posts on YouTube under the name "Itchy Boots" and went half way round the world on a 411cc Royal Enfield Himalayan).

 

Far too many motorcyclists seem to think a bike has to have a top speed over 150 mph, electronic gadgetry that would put an Airbus A320 to shame and a price that would have bought a decent house a few years ago. Anything falling short of these criteria risks being dismissed as unworthy and inferior. 

 

I don't know if it's the economic climate or if riders are just getting fed up with over-specified, over-priced and over-hyped motorbikes but in the last few years there has been a very welcome trend towards smaller, simpler and cheaper machines. Royal Enfield's emergence as a major player has been a significant factor in this with their simple, beautifully designed, well built and affordable bikes selling faster than dealers can get hold of them. I just hope the trend continues and the snobbery withers and dies.

 

Dave G 🇺🇦

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That sort of attitude afflicts every human endeavour. Look at coffee, wine and whisk(e)y- simple products that now have a whole swathe of complete and utter nonsense written about them, and if you consume them, you'd best be discriminating and well-versed in their 'subtleties'. Bunch of complete tankers. 

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hear you @Skodadriver I'm a biker myself, I've got four bike's, two 2001 Triumph Bonneville's, a 2002 Triumph Daytona and a 2002 Triumph Sprint RS. I love my bikes and maintain them well but I ride alone the vast majority of the time and I rarely stop in any of the 'Biker Haunts' of my local area in Cowal, Southern Argyll. When I do stop where there are other bikes like Inveraray, especially on my Bonneville's the 'Power Ranger' mob all sort of look disdainfully at my twenty one year old bike only capable of 100mph tops and with a mere sixty five or so horses. They absolutely hate the fact that many passers by of a certain age, not to mention the youngsters all gravitate to the classic lines of my bonnies and want to talk about, reminisce over or simply admire them. I also get the frowns for wearing plain unbranded leather trousers and classic 'Brando' leather jacket rather than state of the art one piece jobs with built in speed hump on the back. They are often surprised though when I come round the bends right over on the edge of my tyres and I don't need ABS, rider modes, and all mod cons to do it because the bike is simply eminently capable and beautifully simple and reliable. 

 

I find that humans are awfully good at turning anything pleasureable into a nauseating 'sport' where competition and stomping on others becomes the only game. There is only one way I have ever found to deal with it and that is to walk away from them and go and do your own thing. 

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

a past-it biker too. The snobbery I used to get from others because of my Honda Deauville or Kawasaki 550F.1. Both 'working' bikes, as in they earned their keep. Snobbery from certain others, but not the road racing committees who reckoned the Dullvil er Deauville one of the best bikes for road-closed checks at road races

 

and don't forget the snobbery about Skodas.  We are/were a Skoda owning family. No.1 son has a collection of them. My tag name on ebay is Skodaustin - our two favorit car makes

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Seahawk said:

And I shall continue to do so regardless of the attitudes of others.  Which is just as well given the condescending attitude, if not scorn, directed at people who don't own airbrushes (obviously not serious modellers

I don't Im in awe of the brush painters on this forum. I think the get just as good if not better results (no overspray). 

 

5 hours ago, Seahawk said:

do small-scale AFVs (aka "toys": evidently among AFV modellers, size is important). 

I cant do small scale armor my eyes just don't allow for it. Same reason why I cant do 1/700 ships. I am in awe of some of the work in small scales, there is an incredible build of a 1/72 S.P.Artillery in the Japanese group build. 

 

1 hour ago, Skodadriver said:

Despite my stage name I have ridden a motorbike for most of my adult life. The motorcycling world has long been a fertile area for elitists and snobs, aided and abetted in no small measure by most of the manufacturers. I have never wanted or owned a bike larger than 650cc and I get serious red mist any time I hear a machine of that size dismissed as a "beginner's bike" or, in what appears to be the ultimate insult, a bike for "lady riders". (The latter disrespects the fantastic exploits of many female motorcyclists like the Dutch girl who posts on YouTube under the name "Itchy Boots" and went half way round the world on a 411cc Royal Enfield Himalayan).

 

Far too many motorcyclists seem to think a bike has to have a top speed over 150 mph, electronic gadgetry that would put an Airbus A320 to shame and a price that would have bought a decent house a few years ago. Anything falling short of these criteria risks being dismissed as unworthy and inferior. 

 

I don't know if it's the economic climate or if riders are just getting fed with over-specified, over-priced and over-hyped motorbikes but in the last few years there has been a very welcome trend towards smaller, simpler and cheaper machines. Royal Enfield's emergence as a major player has been a significant factor in this with their simple, beautifully designed, well built and affordable bikes selling faster than dealers can get hold of them. I just hope the trend continues and the snobbery withers and dies.

 

Dave G 🇺🇦

As someone that grew up around “Outlaw” bikers (Harley Davidson) I understand this completely. I cant afford a Harley now Id need to be a Doctor or a lawyer or maybe a union labor person making high 5 figures a year to even consider the $35,000 base price for some models. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I love eliteism!

It is such a wonderful fishing ground with easy bites to reel in gigantic idiots.

 

I'm about to head off skiing where the latest and greatest equipment is mandatory... I'm still using 1980's skis and my jacket is of the same vintage. The sideways looks and comments are pure gold.

It still perplexes me about everyone wearing a helmet and baggy clothes as I haven't a clue what sex a person is while trying to strike up a conversation on the chairlift (which forces the person to take their blimmin' earphones out). Grrr.

 

 

3 hours ago, Skodadriver said:

(The latter disrespects the fantastic exploits of many female motorcyclists like the Dutch girl who posts on YouTube under the name "Itchy Boots" and went half way round the world on a 411cc Royal Enfield Himalayan).

Noraly is a great example of "down to earth" and having fun while doing so! It is always nice to hear "good morning internet!" while heading off to some remote spot of the planet.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...