Wick 109 Messerschmitt Emil BoB

[dov]

Hallo

I am working on two 109 Emil flown from Wick. In BoB only.

One a/c from October,  one from November, when he was shot down.

The kits are in 48. One from Tamiya and one from Revell, ex Hasegawa.

The interior from Eduard and Yahoo.

 

The painting details I seek for. The fuselage I will do as I did it already before on my Halberstadt in 32 with sponge.

 

When anyone has pictures from the wing top side, tail plane and others, I would be very happy. 

 

Thank you a lot in forward.

 

The same issue, two Emils a/c from Galland, the early  and late one. Both BoB!

 

Happy modelling 

[Ingo Ritz]

Here is a shot of W. Nr. 5344.  I think that this machine was subsequently remarked with the fuselage winkel.  Upper wings appear to to standard pattern, most likely RLM 71/02.

 

[dov]

Thanks. At this photo you can see the wing camo id not standard. 

This is what I seek for. Anyone who has information on this subject is welcome. 

Happy modelling 

[Ingo Ritz]

For purposes of discussion here is an interpretation of Wick's aircraft in the Warpaint Special No.2.  All three depict the same aircraft from August 1940 to November 1940.  These illustrations do not show the hummingbird figure which some claim is on the port fuselage forward of the yellow 2.  The depiction of the camouflage pattern on the port tail plane is inconsistent with the photograph above.

 

 

[Ingo Ritz]

Here are two similar photos showing the aircraft after the Kommodore markings were applied.

 

 

[dov]

Wow

There are a lot of intereswting details.

So I can asume, that the top camo of the wing is not standard, the camo border lines are free hand!

If the same aircraft was so long operational, some repairs were done fore sure.

Thank you very much.

Still open and awaiting some more infos.

Happy modelling

 

[Jens]

The wing camo surely looks standard to me. What part of it looks non-standard to you?

 

Jens

[tempestfan]

The pronounced contrast between the top colours could well mean it was not 70/71.

[dov]

Hallo

 

@Jens

The wing topside photo of the yellow 2 is not ident with the wing of the later photos. All seen here.

I asume replacement wings and or subject to maintenance.

The colors shoud be 02/70.

Demarcation lines are not straight, curved somehow.

Thank you @Ingo Ritz!

 

Happy modelling

[fishplanebeer]

One of the biggest issues surrounding Bf109's generally, and particularly during the BoB, is that there are relatively few pictures extant of the aircraft from above to confirm the exact colours and camo pattern so it will always involve a degree of 'educated guesswork'. The pics of the captured AE479 at least show where the upper pattern ended over the ailerons and flaps as these were not repainted to avoid upsetting the handling characteristics, but as to where the lines went over the rest of the wing and tail planes (and if they were solid or soft edged) will be subject to some conjecture I suspect.

 

Regards

Colin.

[Duncan B]

16 hours ago, tempestfan said:

The pronounced contrast between the top colours could well mean it was not 70/71.

I'd agree with that. In other contemporary photos of Bf109s with the earlier 70/71/65 low demarcation scheme it can be very difficult to make out the 70 from the 71 due to the very low contrast.

 

I also agree with @dov that in the first photo the starboard wing outer demarcation looks to wavy and soft rather than hard edged and straight so while it is in keeping with the generally agreed pattern it doesn't look to be factory applied as such. Had it been repainted due to damage at some point or was it a field applied experiment, I guess we will never know the answer to that?

 

Duncan B

[Troy Smith]

16 hours ago, dov said:

The colors shoud be 02/70.

more like 02 /71

02/70 would be very high contrast.

See photos below

 

In field repaints were common in 1940, raising the underside colour up the sides, finding 70/71 too dark and replacing (usually) 70 with 02,  later experiments with grey schemes for over water use, eventually leading to the 74/75/76 scheme.

this is summed up here 

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/camo/bob/bob_camo.htm

 

written by Dave Wadman , here as @tango98

@G.R.Morrison is good on Luftwaffe colours.  We also get contribution from @David E. Brown 

 

 

 

Wick is hardly an obscure subject, and given the German propaganda service,  there must be more images of Wick's planes  as well as other of JG 2. 

 

OK, put Bf109 e Helmut Wick into google

this is one of the hits

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2009/12/helmut-wick-his-me-109-wnr-5344.html

Done by @FalkeEins

 

And has various photos of Bf109 wnr 5344, at various dates, as shown by the rudder scoreboard..

 

for the purpose of the upper surfaces, this should help, from the blog linked above

 

"The 44th bar has been added... this is between 29 Oct and 5 November, again note no tactical markings on the wingtips:"

 

 

 

"Close-up of the nose... note the worn finish on the spinner, and the very irregular camo demarcation along the leading edges of the wings... note also that what you can see of the leading edge of the port wing appears to not display any wingtip tactical markings at all, just a continuation of the camo:"

Note the image of Wnr 5344 posted above has been retouched, from the ebay image

 

and another

 

this shows Wick's plane with 47 rudder bars

 

and this with 43

 

from here 

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/JG2-Stab.html

I don't tend to rust the captions, but lots of images

 

 

I don't know of color images of Wicks plane, but this is of 9/JG52, which back up that 5344 is likely has been repainted in field to first 71/02 uppers with high 65 side,  and then has the side toned down with sponge applied mottle of 71.   

 

the contract between Gelb 04 and gelb 27 has been shown to be more then expected by some color film that turned up recently as well. (I posted a link to it)  

 

 

often reproduced washed out

 

 

this may have more

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HELMUT-WICK-Illustrated-Biography-Jagdgeschwader/dp/0764322176

 

though the cover shows yellow wing tips, as does the profile posted above, and the photos don't.

 

HTH

 

[G.R.Morrison]

Re: the wingtips mentioned by Mr. Smith

WNr.5344 was much-photographed, as "gelbe 2' having been used by Wick with the 3./JG 2, then briefly with the 6./JG 2, then re-marked as "Doppelwinkel" with the I/JG 2, and finally and fatally as Kommodore of the JG 2.  There are at least two photos which reveal the yellow wingtip(s), one from 2 o'clock and another from 10 o'clock, with 32 Abschußbalken displayed on the rudder.  These also show the crosses on the wing's underside have had the white angles narrowed, similar to those on the fuselage.  I don't have a photo-hosting service so cannot insert them here, but if curious followers of this thread wish to get a copy, send me your email in a PM, I'll forward them.

 

Artist Claes Sundin chose to also depict a white band abutting the yellow wingtip underside -- I'm skeptical without more evidence emerging.

 

As to 'What shade of paint?,' I try to avoid making pronouncements on color as eyes are not only subjective, they also tend to see what they're looking for.

 

GRM

[dov]

My effort:

 

 

 

Now guessing, if all stencils are vissible?

 

Happy modelling

[Jochen Barett]

On 25/06/2022 at 17:26, Ingo Ritz said:

Here is a shot of W. Nr. 5344.  I think that this machine was subsequently remarked with the fuselage winkel.  Upper wings appear to to standard pattern, most likely RLM 71/02.

 

 

They got it wrong at JG 2. The sword in the Horrido pennant is almost white, not the gelbe-2 yellow. They should have checked the profile.

[Ingo Ritz]

The wing walk markings are present in the photos above. The the yellow fuel marking on the port fuselage appear to be obscured by the camouflage finish.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Ingo Ritz

[dragonlanceHR]

There was a pretty good coberage on Wick in a special issue of Avions dedicated to WW2 aces, must dig it up.

[Ingo Ritz]

I think this is Yellow 2...

 

And three more shots with late markings and painted wing tips.

 

 

[Ingo Ritz]

Wick's machines have been popular subject's for box art.  Here are three interpretations from Roy Cross and Shigeo Koike...

 

 

 

[Troy Smith]

14 hours ago, dov said:

My effort:

 

If you at the reference photos,   what I see is a RLM 65 high side paint scheme with a sponge mottle of RLM 71  only.  

best seen in this shot

 

 

 

 

Keep  in mind this is what JG2 planes looked like in May

 

after

 

I can only see one stipple colour, which matches the darker of the upper colours.     Obviously, your model, your choice.  

 

As an aside, a few years ago I did correspond with a then 93 year old Hurricane pilot who survived being shot down by Wick in the BoB...  

[dov]

Oh,thank you all.

I will edit my camo. Still time to do so.

 

Happy modelling 

[Jochen Barett]

Maybe it would be worth it to buy a copy of Herbert Ringsletter's book

 

Major Helmut Wick. Kommodore Jagdgeschwader Richthofen Nr. 2.

Herbert Ringlstetter

Stuttgart, Motorbuch Verlag, 2000. ISBN: 3613020734

 

 

or maybe even the English hardcover version

Helmut Wick: An Illustrated Biography of the Luftwaffe Ace and Commander of Jagdgeschwader 2 During the Battle of Britain

An Illustrated Biography of Luftwaffe Ace Commander of Herbert Ringlstetter

 

Some time ago I asked him regarding the color of the Horrido pennant and part of his answer is:

"Der Wimpel war ursprünglich das persönliche Zeichen von Hennig Strümpell, dem Staffelkapitän der 3./JG 2. Dazu eine Bildunterschrift aus meinem Buch:

Hauptmann Strümpell und seine Me 109 »Gelbe 1« - die 1 wurde vom Zensor leidlich herausgekratzt. Auf der Motorhaube ist der Horrido-Wimpel zu sehen, sein persönliches Zeichen. Der originale, blau gelbe Wimpel stammt von einer Jagdgesellschaft in Pommern. Über Oberleutnant der Reserve Kieckebusch kam eine Verbindung zu den Offizieren der 3. Staffel zustande, die 1938 auf dem pommerschen Gut einige Male zu Gast waren. Bei einer der Einladungen bekam Strümpell den Horrido-Wimpel geschenkt, den er zeitweise sogar auf seinem Privatauto montiert hatte, bevor er das Zeichen nach Beginn des Krieges an seine Me 109 aufmalen ließ. Da das Zeichen auch den anderen Piloten recht gut gefiel, war es ab dem Frühjahr 1940 bald auf den meisten Maschinen der 3. Staffel zu sehen und wurde zum Staffelabzeichen. Der schwarze Zylinder rührte aus Strümpells »Legion Condor«-Zeit und wurde ursprünglich von Hannes Trautloft kreiert."

 

in short:

"The pennant was originally the personal marking of Henning Strümpell, ... the blue-yellow pennant stems from a hunting party in Pommern ..."

 

followed by "Wicks persönliches Zeichen war der kleine Vogel (Eisvogel?) schräg unterhalb der Kabinenhaube."

"Wick's personal marking was the small bird (kingfischer) below the rear and of the canopy"

the small bird is almost detectable in this pic

 

and in the well known profile

 

and here

[Hook]

I'm chickening out: 

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/special-hobby-k72031-german-ace-helmut-wicks-bf-109e-4-stipple-camouflage-scheme--1323294

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Ingo Ritz]

 

That little bird...

 

 

Lower right corner of image...

 

 

B/W drawing by Greg Reynolds, IPMS Quarterly.  Described as Kingfisher with dark blue head and wings, orange breast and under wings,light bluetailfeathers...

Cybermodel Dragon Decal 1/32 scale...

 

Techmod Decals 1/32 scale...

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Ingo Ritz

[Ingo Ritz]

Not sure what happened to the text above.  I tried to edit w/o success...