More Adventures of ColonelKrypton - itchin' that scratch - Isotta-Fraschini autoblinda

[ColonelKrypton]

For some reason I always tend to circle back around to model subjects from the early 1900's, just before and of the period of the Great War. 

 

Of late I have been working on some M3 Lee and Grant and M4 Sherman projects but have been itching to circle back as it were.

 

Note: all links and references will appear at the bottom of the post

 

On the Landships web site there are a number of well done card model designs suitable as starting points for scratch building some very interesting Great War armoured cars.

 

I currently have a stalled build of a Poplavko Jeffery armoured car waiting on wheels as the next step of it's construction. Wheels for an armoured car are like the tracks for tank - part of their heart and soul and without which they are little more than immoveable hulks sitting in the middle of a field.

 

However, the itch is strong - the desire to start something new, to explore something new and different can't be ignored.
 
Alexandar Bondar has kindly made available several of his designs on the Landships web site within which you will find one for the Autoblinda Isotta-Fraschini RM and one for the Westmorland and Cumberland Yeomanry's second Isotta-Fraschini armoured car design.

 

Both designs are interesting but which one to build.

 

The Isotta-Fraschini Motor Company was founded in Milan, Italy in 1900 by Cesare Isotta and Vincenzo Fraschini along with Vincenzo's brothers Antonio and Oreste.

 

Isotta-Fraschini went on to build some of the world's finest and most expensive motorcars, including the first production motorcar to be powered by a straight-eight engine, and one of the first to be fitted with four-wheel brakes. Their motorcars had an excellent reputation for quality and speed. 

 

In 1911 Isotta-Fraschini privately financed and constructed a prototype to examine whether an Isotta-Fraschini truck could be adapted with an armoured body to create an armoured car. The resulting Isotta-Fraschini 1911 autoblinda RM used the standard truck chassis mounting a 4mm thick steel armoured body. Armament consisted of roof mounted turret with 6.5mm machine gun with an additional 6.5mm
machine gun firing from a mount on the rear plate of the vehicles armoured body. 

 

Two prototypes were constructed but the Italian Army showed little interest. Apparently, one was sent to Libya in 1912 and the other possibly fallen into German hands during the Great War.

 

 

Formed April 1908, the Westmorland and Cumberland Yeomanry were a Territorial unit and were part of the Welsh Border Mounted Brigade. In 1914 they ordered the first of two armoured cars both of which to paid for from private funds.

 

Completed in November 1914, their first armoured car was designed by C. W. Lowther based upon a 25 hp Isotta-Fraschini chassis with the armoured bodywork being done by Guy Lewin Ltd.

 

 

 

 

Delivered in 1915, their second Armoured Car, was designed by Yeomanry's Commanding Officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Sir Bryan Leighton, and was of a completely different design to the 1914 model, the 1915 model having unusual exaggerated sharply pointed front and rear sections. This vehicle was also built upon a 25 hp Isotta-Fraschini chassis with the bodywork also being completed by Guy Lewin Ltd.

 

Lt.Col. Leighton was a qualified pilot serving in the Royal Flying Corp. His knowledge of aircraft design and aerodynamics no doubt greatly influenced his armoured car's advanced aerodynamic design.

 

 

Both designs are interesting but which one to build.

 

Interestingly, I can find several pictures of the Italian Isotta-Fraschini autoblinda, two pictures of the Yeomanary 1914 armoured car, but only one of the 1915 version. 

 

This will be an ongoing work in progress. Don't expect frequent updates but do expect frequent diversions. 

 

And do join in so I don't feel like I am talking to myself. 

 

All comments and suggestions - good, bad, or indifferent are appreciated.

 

cheers, Graham

 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/173218-ww1-military-motors-1916-set-x-50-cards/page/55/

https://en.topwar.ru/79642-bronevik-isotta-fraschini-rm-pervyy-broneavtomobil-italii.html

http://www.landships.info/landships/models.html  Alexander Bondar

https://england1418.wordpress.com/category/1-royaume-uni/50-cavalerie/yeomanry/westmorland-and-cumberland-yeomanry/

https://www.google.ca/books/edition/The_Autocar/ImofAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=1914+Westmorland+and+Cumberland+Yeomanry+armoured+car&pg=PA757&printsec=frontcover

 

 

[ColonelKrypton]

In case you were wondering, autoblinda is Italian for armoured car.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=autoblinda+translate+italian+to+english

 

 

cheers, Graham

 

[vytautas]

Looks like an interesting project, I will definitely watch its development!

[Model Mate]

Ooh lovely! Just my bag, as you know Colonel. Good references can be both a blessing and a curse rather like surveys - in my trade, we say “one survey is good, two surveys is confusing and three surveys means you’ll need a fourth survey”. Without many references, there’s no way to “be wrong”, so you can use your imagination to re-engineer, which can be fun. So despite the lack of references, I’d go for the funky future-car I think if I were you.

[THEscaleSHOW]

On 22/06/2022 at 18:04, ColonelKrypton said:

For some reason I always tend to circle back around to model subjects from the early 1900's, just before and of the period of the Great War. 

 

Of late I have been working on some M3 Lee and Grant and M4 Sherman projects but have been itching to circle back as it were.

 

Note: all links and references will appear at the bottom of the post

 

On the Landships web site there are a number of well done card model designs suitable as starting points for scratch building some very interesting Great War armoured cars.

 

I currently have a stalled build of a Poplavko Jeffery armoured car waiting on wheels as the next step of it's construction. Wheels for an armoured car are like the tracks for tank - part of their heart and soul and without which they are little more than immoveable hulks sitting in the middle of a field.

 

However, the itch is strong - the desire to start something new, to explore something new and different can't be ignored.
 
Alexandar Bondar has kindly made available several of his designs on the Landships web site within which you will find one for the Autoblinda Isotta-Fraschini RM and one for the Westmorland and Cumberland Yeomanry's second Isotta-Fraschini armoured car design.

 

Both designs are interesting but which one to build.

 

The Isotta-Fraschini Motor Company was founded in Milan, Italy in 1900 by Cesare Isotta and Vincenzo Fraschini along with Vincenzo's brothers Antonio and Oreste.

 

Isotta-Fraschini went on to build some of the world's finest and most expensive motorcars, including the first production motorcar to be powered by a straight-eight engine, and one of the first to be fitted with four-wheel brakes. Their motorcars had an excellent reputation for quality and speed. 

 

In 1911 Isotta-Fraschini privately financed and constructed a prototype to examine whether an Isotta-Fraschini truck could be adapted with an armoured body to create an armoured car. The resulting Isotta-Fraschini 1911 autoblinda RM used the standard truck chassis mounting a 4mm thick steel armoured body. Armament consisted of roof mounted turret with 6.5mm machine gun with an additional 6.5mm
machine gun firing from a mount on the rear plate of the vehicles armoured body. 

 

Two prototypes were constructed but the Italian Army showed little interest. Apparently, one was sent to Libya in 1912 and the other possibly fallen into German hands during the Great War.

 

 

Formed April 1908, the Westmorland and Cumberland Yeomanry were a Territorial unit and were part of the Welsh Border Mounted Brigade. In 1914 they ordered the first of two armoured cars both of which to paid for from private funds.

 

Completed in November 1914, their first armoured car was designed by C. W. Lowther based upon a 25 hp Isotta-Fraschini chassis with the armoured bodywork being done by Guy Lewin Ltd.

 

 

 

 

Delivered in 1915, their second Armoured Car, was designed by Yeomanry's Commanding Officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Sir Bryan Leighton, and was of a completely different design to the 1914 model, the 1915 model having unusual exaggerated sharply pointed front and rear sections. This vehicle was also built upon a 25 hp Isotta-Fraschini chassis with the bodywork also being completed by Guy Lewin Ltd.

 

Lt.Col. Leighton was a qualified pilot serving in the Royal Flying Corp. His knowledge of aircraft design and aerodynamics no doubt greatly influenced his armoured car's advanced aerodynamic design.

 

 

Both designs are interesting but which one to build.

 

Interestingly, I can find several pictures of the Italian Isotta-Fraschini autoblinda, two pictures of the Yeomanary 1914 armoured car, but only one of the 1915 version. 

 

This will be an ongoing work in progress. Don't expect frequent updates but do expect frequent diversions. 

 

And do join in so I don't feel like I am talking to myself. 

 

All comments and suggestions - good, bad, or indifferent are appreciated.

 

cheers, Graham

 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/173218-ww1-military-motors-1916-set-x-50-cards/page/55/

https://en.topwar.ru/79642-bronevik-isotta-fraschini-rm-pervyy-broneavtomobil-italii.html

http://www.landships.info/landships/models.html  Alexander Bondar

https://england1418.wordpress.com/category/1-royaume-uni/50-cavalerie/yeomanry/westmorland-and-cumberland-yeomanry/

https://www.google.ca/books/edition/The_Autocar/ImofAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=1914+Westmorland+and+Cumberland+Yeomanry+armoured+car&pg=PA757&printsec=frontcover

 

 

 

Hello Graham

 

Nice choice of vehicles - I like all of them!

My choice would be the car of Lt.Col. Leighton, because this one also has the Batman look:

 

 

Hannibal would also be worth a project 😁

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

[ColonelKrypton]

On 6/25/2022 at 9:27 AM, THEscaleSHOW said:

because this one also has the Batman look:

 

Romfell Panzerwagen - I have seen the CSM kit and it is tempting.  I have seen a card model design for that one too but I don't recall where and can't put my finger on it at the moment. It would make a challenging scratchbuild not that I wouldn't enjoy building the kit as Copper State Models make some mighty fine kits.

 

Professor Fate's car - that would make a very unique model too, certainly odd and unique in more ways than I count on my ten fingers.

 

cheers, Graham 

[ColonelKrypton]

On 6/25/2022 at 1:38 AM, Model Mate said:

I’d go for the funky future-car I think if I were you.

 

Lt.Col. Leighton's 1915 futuristic design seems to be the odds on favourite and that is the direction I am heading in. 

 

The Isotta-Fraschini 1911 autoblinda RM based on the Isotta-Fraschini is the odd duck of the bunch and as such has it's own attraction. After much searching and digging I was able to find a few more pictures of this vehicle but not much more. I couldn't even find what the Isotta-Fraschini truck it was based on looked like.  I did find and old Isotta-Fraschini advertisement which shows not only the autoblinda but several other Isotta-Fraschini vehicles. Perhaps the autoblinda was based on one of the trucks shown in the advertisement. 

 

 

I also found this Isotta-Fraschini truck advert

 

 

I think I will leave the 1911 autoblinda RM for another time, perhaps as a very simple build with no chassis or interior details much as you would make the card model design. Alexandar Bondar's card model design for this vehicle can also be found on the landships forum.

 

http://www.landships.info/landships/models.html   I seem to recall that Mr. Bondar is Ukranian and does frequent a number of different online posts but speaks little or no English. I am sure he has some other very nice card model designs that can be found elsewhere than on the landships forum but I have not been lucky enough to stumble over them yet.

 

Of the three designs I noted in my first posting, the Westmorland and Cumberland Yeomanry's 1914 design is by the most conventional if you might dare to call any such armoured car conversion conventional. I have only found two good pictures of the vehicle - one showing the left side and the other the right. You could almost call it a handsome design, I think in fact a nicer looking design than even the Rolls Royce armoured cars. However, it does kind of look more like a delivery truck than a purpose build armoured fighting vehicle. 

 

Claimed to be built on an Isotta-Fraschini 25hp model chassis but it is not stated which model and I have not been able to determine which actual vehicle it might have been. It seems describing many vehicles of era was done by simply stating a horsepower rating and rarely giving a model type. 

 

Much time has been spend rummaging through various old early 20th century auto books and magazines that can be found on Google Books.  I have found a couple of leads but nothing yet definitive.

 

Lt.Col. Leighton's 1915 design is also noted to have been based on a 18-25hp Isotta-Fraschini chassis. But which one? If you compare the pictures of the two Yeomanary designs in my first post you will note that the 1914 design is over six feet tall and quite long especially when compared with the 1915 design.  If you were to assume the 1915 design was of a similar height then the chassis certainly looks like it would have had a shorter wheelbase leading me to wonder if the two vehicles even though both based on Isotta-Fraschini chassis' did in fact use the same chassis design?

 

The die is cast and I will be moving forward with the 1915 Yeomanry design but how much detail I add to this build will be dependent on what if any more details I can find some on which Isotta-Fraschini vehicle chassis was used. It could up being little more than shell on four wheels or ?

 

First order of business in the actual physical build however build will be the wheels.  Without wheels it is would be little more than a hulk sitting a field and a nicely executed set of spoked wheels should set the tone for the rest of the build.

 

I have some ideas....  ( dangerous that - you never know where that twisty path might lead )

 

cheers, Graham

 

[ColonelKrypton]

In our last episode it was revealed that chosen design would be Lt.Col. Leighton's 1915 futuristic design for the Westmorland and Cumberland Yeomanry.

 

First order of business will working some way to make a set of nice wood spoked wheels while I am still digging around for some details on the noted Isotta-Fraschini 18-25hp chassis that the armoured car was based on. 

 

Wheels are simple right? Nothing but some roundy circular things attached to an axle?  Not as simple as you might think.

 

After a bit of searching I found a digital copy of an old easy to read book on Google books called The Wheel Wrights Shop by George Sturt dated 1923. Being a wheelwright was a very important trade, quite fascinating actually. 

 

For some light bed time reading: https://archive.org/details/wheelwrightsshop00stur/mode/2up

 

You may have noticed that some wood spoke wheels have a shape that resembles a saucer or a dish and others that don't have this shape. The answer is in that book - hint, it's called dish and has to do with design of the cart or carriage the wheel was used on and that cart or carriage's motive source; whether it was animal drawn or motor powered.

If you have ever looked closely at the spokes themselves you will have noticed that some have a drop like cross sectional shape and others are a flattened oval. The answer is in that book - hint: nothing to do with aesthetics or streamlining but rather about strength and reducing weight. Wheels with dish are commonly called ordinary carriage wheels. Wheels that are straight without dish are commonly referred to as artillery wheels due to their resembling wheels seen on artillery pieces. 

 

 

 

In the case of the Isotta-Fraschini wheels these look artillery style wheels, that is straight without dish but the spokes themselves appear to have a tear drop cross section. 

 

 

We now have some knowledge of these types of wheels and their shape. The model's wheels will be around an 25mm in diameter but that may change when I find some more details on the Isotta-Fraschini chassis and it's details. 

 

Why all this fuss over something like spoked wheels that will likely no larger that 25mm in diameter? Because it's interesting. 

 

It looks like that I will have to scratch build some wheels failing a search for some suitable off the shelve wheels. Doing so is a challenge in itself. I could use an O ring for the tyre and make some sort of rim and spokes out of styrene but I don't like the look of using an O ring for a tyre. 

 

There has been discussion in a number of other postings of @Model Mate and @Bandsaw Steve (of note) on scratch building wheels. One technique to make the tyre which works OK is to wrap thin strips of styrene into a circular shape, building up the thickness needed and then adding the middle bits to suit. It is fiddly and tedious but gets the job done. 

 

 

On Amazon I discovered silicone rubber molds targeted at the craft market with which you can cast resin finger rings. There are a number of different designs - one a roundish aircraft tyre shape, another which has a diamond like tread, and another which is a simple flat round shape. The rings vary in size from about 17mm outside diameter to 27 and there eight sizes on each mold. There are a few other sizes and shapes and additionally those large enough for bracelets. What a light bulb moment that discovery was. Using these molds it would be easy to cast tyres to an approximate size and then shape to required size.

 

 

 

 

The diamond tread tyre would look interesting on a futuristic What If Sci Fi type vehicle.

 

 

But wait, the design of the molds provided food another variation. I could make a mold of an O ring and could then cast however many tyres in whatever sizes I might want. All I needed to do was to tack glue a thin ring on one side wall of the O ring in order to hold it above the mold box bottom and then fill the mold box with silicon rubber. When set all I needed to do to free up and pop out the O ring. Using a syringe to over fill the mold provided the best results. The excess resin is then easily cleaned up and I now have a nice resin copy of the O ring I started with. 

 

 

Now I have an easy way to make some nice tyres. Making the rim and spokes are next. Easy? Difficult? We'll see.

 

Stay tuned for the next episode.

 

cheers, Graham
 

Edited July 1, 2022 by ColonelKrypton
tinger frouble

[Model Mate]

Excellent work Colonel! Very inventive stuff. I used O rings on my Wolesely car, but resin casting them is a much better idea.

[ColonelKrypton]

In our previous episode I left you with some of the thoughts and experiments I was thinking through on wheels and tires and scratchbuilding the same.

 

Since then my search for some more details on the Isotta-Fraschini chassis on which the 1915 Yeomanary armoured car was built has been rewarded with a few details, I think.

 

It seems that there was the Isotta-Fraschini Tipo EC of that time period having the state power of 18 - 25HP which fits time wise and power wise with respect to some of the posted details of the vehicle.

 

In Motor magazine dated February 1914 on pg85  https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Motor/Blo-AQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Isotta-Fraschini+EC+18-25HP&pg=RA3-PA85 I found this:

 

 

Now I have some dimensions from which to work. There appears to have been two slightly different chassis for this model of motorcar, one 114 inches wheelbase and another 120 inches. Front tires in 1/35 scale will be 23mm ( and a bit ), rears about the same.

 

This creates yet another question - was the short or long chassis used? Does it really matter in 1/35 scale ( 4.3mm difference) ? Just pick one  and scale Mr. Bondar's card model design appropriately I think.

 

Also, the chassis used semi elliptical springs in the front and 3/4 elliptical springs in the rear; important if I want to add that sort of detail. 

 

For those that might be wondering what semi elliptical and 3/4 elliptical mean:

 

 

 

There are also (fully) elliptical and 1/4 elliptical variations but they don't apply to this vehicle; it is up to those so interested to use Google and discover those details on their own.

 

And, if wanted to add some engine detail, I now know that the Isotta-Fraschini Tipo EC had a four cylinder cast all en bloc L head engine. A picture of such an Isotta-Fraschini engine has not be found but the description is important as it was common in that era to build engines having cylinders cast in pairs with two such castings being used to make a four cylinder engine. L head simply means that the intake and exhaust manifolds where on the same side of the engine.

 

This is not an Isotta-Fraschini motor but is representative of a four cylinder cast all en bloc L head engine of that era

 

Now that I have some numbers and details I am getting closer to formulating a plan or at least better being able to consider how I want to proceed.

 

Remember, always have Plan and that plan always has a Plan B and a Plan C and that, to quote Robert Burns "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.”

 

Till next time ...

 

cheers, Graham