Revell 1/48 B-17f, "Oh, what a surprise! It's the Memphis Belle" - Completed - photos in the gallery

[nickhenfrey]

OK, here we go - I can't even think of a catchy title because I don't know which aircraft I'm actually going to build yet, so it's just a Surprise at the moment

 

So, another surprise on opening the box, found a bunch of AM - the interior set maybe helpful - think I bought these around 2002

 

 

 

Just to prove I didn't jump before the gun (which was tempting….)

 

 

And into the wash tank we go

 

 

 

(no - I didn't buy that, my son bought it for car parts but has never used it)

 

Thanks to @Corsairfoxfouruncle and @Troy Smith for suggestions on AM

 

I may use the interior set above 48207 (and Troy's suggestion), and/or the 491181 (Corsair's suggestion), or bits of 49360 which is a G set for HKM - hmm decision, decisions

 

My plan is...

 

...at some stage decide which aircraft to build - I like the silly bright green bits on the Belle - were they normal? Or real? The film version doesn't *seem* have them! May build the Belle exactly as depicted in the film!

 

Put the waist doors on closed, so more or less nothing visible there, as Troy says just minimal detail required

 

Ignore the cockpit, tail gunner and radio interiors (again I'm figuring they will be barely visible)

 

Focus on what is actually visible through the plexiglas nose, which seems to be mainly the Norden bombsight

 

Put most effort into the exterior

 

The mgs do look pretty crummy, perhaps a set of metal ones, we'll see - I don't think the Eduard armament set ones will help too mucj - may look into them

 

Well, it's all going to plan so far...

 

 

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, nickhenfrey said:

I like the silly bright green bits on the Belle - were they normal? Or real?

Medium green blotching was specified camo

 

 

from this film, I have linked to time showing Memphis Belle taking off, clearly showing the Medium Green blotches

 

noted that the fabric covered control  surfaces faded.

 

Ducimus guide always worth a read, 

 

 

is here 

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Boeing-B-17-Flying-Fortress

 

 

from

HTH

[stevej60]

Lovely,and all those goodies too!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, nickhenfrey said:

I like the silly bright green bits on the Belle - were they normal?

Standard medium green splotches on olive base until late 1943 if memory serves. Scroll down to common schemes and it gives the description there. 
 

https://384thbombgroup.com/_content/downloads/USAAF Painting Practices During WWII.pdf

[nickhenfrey]

I meant of course to say I DON'T like the silly green bright green bits... 

 

But we're saying that was the standard then?

 

Might as well go for the Belle in that case. Those two extra mgs in the nose will certainly reduce the visibility inside (and the Revell nose transparency comes with the two mounts - well holes)

 

I notice that film of the takeoff did indeed show it with the waist doors/windows stowed, but in flight they were in place, and then presumably stowed for action? 

 

I'm trying to find my copy of Martin Caidin's "Flying Forts" 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

6 hours ago, nickhenfrey said:

I meant of course to say I DON'T like the silly green bright green bits... 

 

But we're saying that was the standard then?

 

Might as well go for the Belle in that case. Those two extra mgs in the nose will certainly reduce the visibility inside (and the Revell nose transparency comes with the two mounts - well holes)

 

I notice that film of the takeoff did indeed show it with the waist doors/windows stowed, but in flight they were in place, and then presumably stowed for action? 

 

I'm trying to find my copy of Martin Caidin's "Flying Forts" 

Yes the Medium green distemper was standard. Stowed on takeoff for safety, there was a moderately high incidence of both take off crashes and air to air impacts while forming up in their combat boxes. If either happened the crew would very likely want to get out fast. Closed until crossing the loss of fighter escort coverage then reopened for defense in mission. Once the formed in their boxes the gunners would test fire the .50’s before closing up to stay warm. 

[nickhenfrey]

Great, thanks Corsair and Troy

 

Right, so aim is for Memphis Belle as it was on completion of its 25th mission (before it was tarted up for the US Tour)

 

With green splodges (see later)

 

With two additional nose mgs

 

And, talking of green splodges in addition to Troy's material I found these images of the Ohio restoration:

 

My favourite

 

 

Under different lighting maybe

 

 

And outside

 

 

 

Seems to vary, but always quite subtle, and quite diffusely edged

 

Oh, and I will be looking to do the faded post-25th mission look not the nicely restored look (although I like that as well!)

 

Now, what about those wheels???? Did they really have that fairground look in action? Or was that added on for the Tour?

 

I think I will try and get the Master brass mgs, best source seems to be Model Hobbies, but are they closed for business at the moment, anyone know?

[Snafu35]

Hello,

 

Great! A B17 Revell/Monogram!
I built it a few years ago:

 

 I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. I've done a bit of work on the interior, but nothing shows, as usual!

 

Can I contribute this information from my reading about the green spots on the OD colour?

With the exception of the first aircraft of the 97th and 301st BGs, the other B17s were given Medium Green (shade no. 42) to break up the leading edge lines of the wings and rear tail (annex to T.O. 07.1.1 of 8 April 1941); although mentioned in the technical manuals until the summer of 1943, this procedure was abandoned in March 1943.

 

On the subject of wheels painted in carnival colours, here is what I read in the book Planes Names and Fancy Noses, the 91st Bomb Group (Heavy) by Ray Bowden-copyright 1993, p137:

" In England, dark green camouflage blotches were applied to the fuselage and to the main wing leading and trailing edges. The main wheel hubs were also painted with a decorative motif at some point, a common practice on many of the early fortresses."

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

 

[nickhenfrey]

Eric, thanks

 

That b-17 looks great! Hope mine turns out as good. 

 

I'm aiming for a really faded look for mine, although I do like the clean unfaded look as well! 

 

So looks likes like carnival wheels are probably part of the package then.... 

 

Thanks again

[nickhenfrey]

Update 1

 

So Week 1 - didn't get a huge amount of time

 

Focussed on the nose (bombardier position) because I figured it would be the most visible

 

First up I wanted a top quality Norden bombsight so I found an STL file, ran it through meshmixer, scaled if to 1/48 and printed it

 

 

Whoops - too big, so tried various other scales (so difficult to measure at that size)

 

 

And found one that matched (and matched the HK 1/48 sight)

 

 

Then turned my attention to the forward part of the interior

 

I said OOB and no scratch-building, but we all knew that wouldn't happen, but I will definitely focus on what will be visible, and a general feel of the interior, not every detail

 

So I've added some interior ribs (not all)

 

 

and started on the plates right at the front that support the front mgs, and there is another inside with the bombardier's oxygen supply

 

 

 

I knocked up a quick Navigator's table, which is so big it's bound to be visible

 

Detail at the rear of this position (navigator's console, the fire extinguisher etc) I'm thinking of just painting onto the rear bulkhead to save time

 

I will aim to add the big black bombardier's console to make the interior a bit busier

 

I also intend to add the mg braces, one for each window, and one each for the nose mgs

 

I primed the cockpit interior, - I'm actually quite impressed with the quality of the mouldings once primed, there is some really good detail that just needs bringing out with paint

 

Also started work on the bombardier's floor panel, the cut out at the front is for an alloy/steel frame the bombsight mounts on

 

 

A few other bits cleaned up and primed

 

 

Two more questions

 

1. I can't find my Martin Caidin book, but I'm sure I read that the bombardier took the bombsight out to the plane with him when he boarded, and removed it as he exited the plane on return, so a parked B-17 would not have it in place?
2. As we've already noted if the plane is about to take off, then the waist gun positions would be open (with the doors/covers slide to the side inside the plane - left or right?), but I don't think the waist guns would be pointing out the plane at this point, so would they face forward, or to the rear inside the plane, or be lying in the back of the plane somewhere?

 

This also means I will have to put a bit of waist detail in, sigh…..

[nickhenfrey]

Another Monday

 

Not much to report

 

Bombardier station making slow progress

 

Added more "ribs"

 

Cut out the 3d-printed bombsight and just trying it for size...

 

...on the slightly progressed bombsight support

 

Made up the bombardier's panel

 

Dry fitting the whole lot in the nose

 

going to use the Revell bombardier seat for the navigator, started making a replacement bombardier seat

 

Much to do but shaping up I reckon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tomprobert]

Looking good! Some lovely

detail going into this!

 

To answer your question re.waist guns, the hatches slid forwards on runners, and the guns would be stowed - meaning they faced to the rear and the ends of the barrels were secured to the rear facing side of the window with a clip. 
 

And remember, no interior green in a B-17! Cockpit is bronze green with olive padding on the walls and the rest is natural metal. If you’re building Memphis Belle, the bomb bay was neutral grey. 
 

Tom

[nickhenfrey]

18 hours ago, tomprobert said:

To answer your question re.waist guns, the hatches slid forwards on runners, and the guns would be stowed - meaning they faced to the rear and the ends of the barrels were secured to the rear facing side of the window with a clip. 

That's great thanks, I have seen a picture of them stowed, and I remember from ages ago that the doors/windows slid to the side on runners - and you have now confirmed they both slide toward the nose of the aircraft

 

18 hours ago, tomprobert said:

And remember, no interior green in a B-17! Cockpit is bronze green with olive padding on the walls and the rest is natural metal.

Whoa - thanks!!!!!! I was all set to paint the bombardier station in an olive type green, because almost every picture (and diagram) indicates this, including some apparently of the 2019 restoration

 

But after wading through a load of photos (and reviewing the 1944 film) this picture from the National Museum restoration website nails it for me:

 

 

We can clearly see the bare metal interior, but a lot of the bracings and gun brackets are painted in (what to me is) bronze green, same as the cockpit - before the restoration it was all chromate "green"/interior green

 

These guys went to incredible effort to get the plane looking as it was following its 25th mission (minus the weathering of course!), before the tour "upgrades", they even noticed the port side insignia was misaligned and reproduced that

 

[tomprobert]

Yeah… it’s a very common mistake made by modellers. No interior green in any wartime Forts - only bronze (or dark dull) green on some components. 
 

Most B-17 warbirds flying today are painted internally, and for some reason usually interior green, but this is for conservation purposes rather than historical accuracy. Therefore, when researching interior colours modellers can be forgiven for thinking they were painted internally if modern Forts are used as a guide. I’m yet to find a WWII era picture of a B-17 with its interior painted, despite 30+ years of searching. 

[Learstang]

Nice start on the B-17! Best of luck with the build. Tom, nice information on the interior! And get back to work on your Shackleton!

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[John Ballman]

I see the rare Paragon Bomb Bay in the mix. Outstanding work on this Beasty. Keep up the superb work.

JB

[nickhenfrey]

Latest update

 

Haven't had a huge amount of time sadly

 

And, guess what, still working on interiors

 

Some random shots of progress

 

Initial waist guns

 

 

How the Bombardier's and Navigator's side guns will look:

 

 

 

After going almost mad cutting and gluing bits of styrene strip here are the unpainted waist positions

 

(I cut the curved sections from sheet - I found I could get it to "curl" depending how I cut it, the straight bits are pre-cut strips):

 

 

 

 

 

And a bit more up front

 

I had to cut down the nose floor - it was too deep, plus I couldn't get the cockpit floor to fit so chopped that down too

 

The cockpit and instruments I'm going to leave pretty much as is - I don't think it's that visible

 

The brace for the port nose gun is in, that took ages to line up with the nose transparency hole…

 

 

 

 

 

 

@John Ballman - Alas I doubt I will have time to do the bomb bay, so I’ll leave that Paragon set for the next F, or I have a G as well - I think the G (being a Monogram) has the waist positions already ribbed - I can see why ppl say to start with that, even for an F!

 

Off to shoot some grey primer over the waist positions

 

Thanks for watching

[John Ballman]

Yes, the Monogram is a better starter for an "F", if this was still 1990. Now we have Eduard, True Details, Aires aftermarket stuff, it really doesn't matter anymore which kit is better. You are doing a masterful job. Keep up the good work.

JB

[nickhenfrey]

Thanks @John Ballman

 

I actually also have the HK B-17f in 1/48, but since there was the GB I thought I'd do this one

 

Don't want to open a can of worms, but I'm sure I've read the HK has issues....

[Toryu]

On 24/08/2022 at 17:36, nickhenfrey said:

After going almost mad cutting and gluing bits of styrene strip here are the unpainted waist positions

 

Wow, what a hell'uv'a work! Looks fantastic from outside through the window.

[stevej60]

Great work in progress here.

[nickhenfrey]

@Toryu and @stevej60 Many thanks for the comments

 

I realized that we are over half way in the Group Build, and I'm still fiddling round with the interior

 

So I started tacking assemblies into the fuselage and doing test viewings through the transparencies, and I don't think I need to do much more inside

 

After quite a bit more painting and a bit of assembly here we are:

 

(note the painted on radio set - we won't see it at all!)

 

plus my homemade O2 bottles, made from sprue!

 

ammunition boxes made from folded and painted paper

 

 

the cockpit - totally Revell - just painted up

 

 

from the front

 

 

 

and the waist position with armour, ammo box and painted wooden floor

 

 

whilst a lot of the interior looks pretty crummy, by the time the transparencies are on it will all look ok - I hope!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Looks good to me, I think with the transparencies you will be good to go. 

[nickhenfrey]

Update 5 October

 

Well, defo running out of time now

 

So a quick update on my big push to get the fuselage buttoned up

 

Machine gun barrels replaced with Master brass - look much better

 

 

Mid-upper turret with brass mgs, painted in olive drab

 

 

Ball turret with brass mgs, painted in primer (ongoing!)

 

 

Nose side windows cut from acetate and glued in (not brilliant, but hopefully not too visible)

 

 

 

Cockpit assemblies and nose interior glued in place, and starboard front mg brace completed

 

 

More soon I hope

[nickhenfrey]

Update 24 October

 

Well, I'm up against the clock here - time rapidly running out…

 

A few more photos before closing up:

 

 

 

 

 

Then glue the fuselage halves together

 

For the first time I taped and used Tamiya Extra thin - all worked fine

 

The fit of the two halves was extremely good…

 

…however smoothing the joins has taken hours of sanding and mild fillering - I think part of the problem is that the join is supposed to have a raised panel line - because my parts weren't exactly lined up I've had to sand offset and the panel line

 

 

 

Wings were a relatively good fit apart from the nacelles - this were miles out had to join each one in a vice, but all seems to have gone together. The gear legs look fine after a bit of painting, I'm going to leave as is

 

 

Cockpit, engine (I've done all four) and main wheels coming along:

 

 

And the whole thing balanced together starting to look real nice:

 

 

 

Lots to do yet, but I'm going to try for a big push for the deadline!!!!