Westland Wasp HAS 1: 'Ambuscade Flight: XT778'

[Pete in Lincs]

Well played that chap! Input, Stephanie, Input! (Number five is alive! Remember that film?)*

 

*(Short Circuit 1986)

[Fritag]

 

7 hours ago, TheBaron said:

At this point the assembly does rather look as if it should be testing the lunar regolith some time in about 1967...

 

6 hours ago, giemme said:

See, my analogy with the Millennium Falcon wasn't that far off, after all....

 

It occurs to me that Tony should produce a steampunk Wasp in parallel.  Let’s face it there’s more than a hint of a victorian aesthetic about the machine anyways…

[TheBaron]

I don't expect many people to read this post as I presume the after effects of the Telford Bacchanalia will take a few days to wear off. Looking forwards to hearing about who got tied to which lamp post and which hotel room was found to hold the most traffic cones...

 

At least it's quite and I can catch up on the mail. 😁

 

On 10/11/2022 at 12:54, perdu said:

Have you any idea whether a business package for fusion would help keep it manageable Tony?

That's a good question B ill but  I definitely think it's down to RAM: much of what comes in the full commercial version is for industrial production stuff and generational design, whereas the growth of the Wasp design is simply pushing against the hardware. 

 

It doesn't stop me from working, just a periodic PITA.

On 10/11/2022 at 13:11, giemme said:

See, my analogy with the Millennium Falcon wasn't that far off, after all....

 

On 10/11/2022 at 15:38, Pete in Lincs said:

It's certainly out of this world!

😁 I'l have to ask Mike to move this thread to the Fleet Air Arm Space section so.....

On 10/11/2022 at 15:44, Brandy said:

I've had regular problems with Fusion not responding, then crashing, even with the small assemblies I've been working on. I usually have Spotify running at the same time though, so maybe that's the issue.

Hopefully it will allow us to see these renders for a while yet!

Thanks Ian.

I use a notebook (plugged into an EGP and second monitor for processor-heavy work) so it seems to be something about the EGP not liking high RAM usage in Fusion. As all other heavy program combinations I run are fine it seems to be one of the gremlins in Autodesk's code when it talks to Nvidia's drivers.

On 10/11/2022 at 16:01, wellsprop said:

Crikey.

Hope your own designs are going Ok?

On 10/11/2022 at 17:43, perdu said:

Tony I exhorted Mike to hunt around the Helicopter museum for us in the hunt for this secretive component

 

His words of wisdom

 

 

'The Rotor Brake Mounting, a cast-metal component, is bolted to the engine block. The part where the caliper bolts to it looks (shown in the upper cutout on the disc) is also disk like and is situated immediately behind the brake; hence why it is so hard to see it.'

 

Pictures too, thanks Mike.

Ah now you two are both pretty special for taking all that trouble-  my sincere thanks to both yourself and @bootneck for this Bill.

🫂x2

At least my solution appears   - more by luck than (mechanical) judgement - to have arrived at something close enough to the actual structure, which is a relief!

Those are great photos and drawings - I'm obliged go back and add that tail rotor drive fitting to the rear face of the brake disk now that there's such clear info for it on shape/detail!

On 10/11/2022 at 19:46, Fritag said:

It occurs to me that Tony should produce a steampunk Wasp in parallel.  Let’s face it there’s more than a hint of a victorian aesthetic about the machine anyways…

 Man Planting Deviant Thoughts Into The Baronial Earhole:  Caspar David Friedrich ca. 1825-30.

Metropolitan Museum of Art.

 

Splendid seeing so many of you in those Telford photos over on @Brandy's thread -  hope you all had a successful/debauched/happy event and safe travels home. 

 

Took the weekend off to relax, listen to music and cook for the family here,  but made a small start on decorating the Nimbus for Christmas.

^{Image credit: Jon Davies}

Yon gert Flugelhorn - that thing which looks like a giant fire extinguisher nozzle pointing back along the stbd side of the engine  - was the target for tonight. Being the biggest feature on that side of the engine it makes sense to start with that and then work your way down the scales to ensure correct size and position of everything else that needs to be added.

 

Corollary is of course that this feature has to be accurate at the onset of the endeavour, else it will skew every successive componenent that references it.

 

It is I believe the starter and cooling duct for same, a fact which I state with all the confidence of one who saw a bloke selling parts for it on the Eb-y:

You can correct me if that's wrong but I'll press ahead in blisful ignorance for now.

 

Prior to starting the work, I used a side-on photo of the Nimbus to knock up a sketch map that triangulates the most prominent features on that side of the engine with one another, and then began roughing out the starter unit itself: in Fusion:

With that component established, it was then safe to build the front of the duct around it:

It took a while to work out the best method of handling that form, not so much because it was complicated to build initially, but because it needed to be built in a way that inaccuracies could later be modified in response to the rest of the assembly.

 

As you start to move back along the duct there's a part of it that's lagged with what looks suspiciously like asbestos, clamped in places by a couple of jubilee clips:

The bands are too thin to be worth designing here but I'll add them in from strips of adhesive metal foil during assembly. You can't see it from this angle  - indeed you mightn't see it in the final print - but I sculpted that part of that duct (rather than crudely simplify it as a cylinder) to include bulging in the material caused by the clips.

 

The bold Mr. Horn(e):

A really fun feature to work on due to the way it bends inwards and downwards as it travels back towards the rear of the engine, which required some nimble thinking over how to position the base drawings in space. Again, not hard, just time-consuming working out relationships. As per usual I've coloured as brass any features that will be PE for strength - in this case the rear support which the horn is bolted onto the engine by:

For the starter unit itself I added a square peg to the underside so that it can be easily mounted in the correct position on the compressor casing.

 

Doesn't seem like too much compared to the time it took but with that in place  now I can begin to address the stbd side of the engine more comprehensively.

 

Looking at all the pipework and fixtures which you can see in the Jon Davies' photo above, I've come to the conclusion in recent days that - much as I might like to kid myself I'm a craftsperson of @perdu's calibre when I'm patently not - I'm simply not up to the job of bending so many bits of fine metal tubing through so many complex angles in such confined spaces. A  much more realistic strategy wil involve printing smaller fittings and their connecting pipework as a series of 'looms' (much like wiring looms) which can be draped around the engine as a sequence of successive layers.

 

This is one of those decisions predicated upon the fundamental connection between designing something and making it manageable to assemble later as a physical entity. The alternative would end up  I  feel being something so complex in nature that it would be nearly as complicated to build as a real Nimbus. A worthy ambition perhaps, but one firmly in the tradition of Siege Perilous...

 

Of course I stil lhave to work out an assembly sequence ( ) in the manner of that oul' firm:  Trial & Error.

 

When we first moved to this house almost twenty years ago, amongst the trees we planted on a virgin site was a Medlar. It's not in an ideal location (exposed to the Northwest winds near a ridgeline) but each year it faiithfully yields a small handful of fruits in a small but significant annual ritual:

Peace upon you and yours tonight,

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anthony in NZ]

I’m at a total loss to understand how you do this. Truly I am amazed at your skills to continue to even carry on mentally with such complexities!

You sir are a new breed of artist and very talented at that. This is still my favourite build threads on ‘te net’

Cheers Anthony 

[bigbadbadge]

Awesome workings out Tony,  more amazing renderings. 

 

Cracking work

Chris

[Pete in Lincs]

9 hours ago, TheBaron said:

what looks suspiciously like asbestos,

It more than likely is/was. It was used on the Wessex.

In one case we had one with the exhausts wrapped in the stuff to hide them from heatseekers.

 

More excellent renderings. And such a big Flugelhorn. (Ooh Matron!)

9 hours ago, TheBaron said:

The bold Mr. Horn(e):

They daren't produce comedy like that nowadays. 

[giemme]

Great job on the fire extinguisher thing, Tony       At this point,  I don't think there's any complex curve/shape that can scare you, right? 

 

Ciao

[perdu]

1 hour ago, Pete in Lincs said:

They daren't produce comedy like that nowadays. 

So terribly, awfully, tragically true.

 

This world they are building for themselves, they can blooming well have it.

 

11 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Looking at all the pipework and fixtures which you can see in the Jon Davies' photo above, I've come to the conclusion in recent days that - much as I might like to kid myself I'm a craftsperson of @perdu's calibre when I'm patently not - I'm simply not up to the job of bending so many bits of fine metal tubing through so many complex angles in such confined spaces. A  much more realistic strategy wil involve printing smaller fittings and their connecting pipework as a series of 'looms' (much like wiring looms) which can be draped around the engine as a sequence of successive layers

Tell you what dear fellow, you really shouldn't go showering old men's heads with too much overheated stuff about them. Me being such an over praised old man, I am not as good as I think I am and certainly nowhere near being in your league.

 

This perported web of pipes in overlay was what I considered for my Wasp as a very fine web of photoetch overlay...

 

Who knows??

 

I dislike etch per-se because flat lines never look like round pipes and tubes but in the concept of very very fineness of those pipes in 72th I thought it might work. Add paint for instance, get 3D.

You'd never get away with it in 24ths so forget I spoke

[TheBaron]

Wating for the missus to come home from her evening class a few nights back, I was listening to music with the headphones on whilst watching the moonlight when one of those beautiful synchronous moments happened: Pye Corner Audio's Deep End track came on in perfect sympathy with the motion of the clouds...

 

(Push 'play' and scroll back up to image 😄)

 

On 13/11/2022 at 22:25, Anthony in NZ said:

I’m at a total loss to understand how you do this.

😁

I've (paradoxically, given the nature of CAD) found it doesn't pay to be too conscious/rational when doing this stuff Anthony.  After a long period of looking at something I want to build, there's a kind semi-meditative state in in which your imagination feels the shape like a hand running over it. 

 

Peter Gabriel's homage to Anne Sexton ('Mercy Street') can't be bettered as a summary I think:

'Looking down on empty streets all she can see

Are the dreams all made solid

Are the dreams made real

 

All of the buildings, all of the cars

Were once just a dream

In somebody's head'

On 13/11/2022 at 22:51, bigbadbadge said:

Awesome workings out Tony,  more amazing renderings. 

My thanks Chris.

On 14/11/2022 at 07:30, Pete in Lincs said:

It more than likely is/was. It was used on the Wessex.

In one case we had one with the exhausts wrapped in the stuff to hide them from heatseekers.

I love these bits of aviation folklore Pete. Thank you. 😁

On 14/11/2022 at 07:54, giemme said:

At this point,  I don't think there's any complex curve/shape that can scare you, right?

The Klein bottle does Giorgio!

You can't pour wine from it and it's a total mystery how the wine got inside there in the first place....

On 14/11/2022 at 09:13, perdu said:

I dislike etch per-se because flat lines never look like round pipes and tubes but in the concept of very very fineness of those pipes in 72th I thought it might work. Add paint for instance, get 3D.

Agree with both the dislike and the paint idea Bill. I've seen old circuit boards where the etched circuitry was so pronounced that it resembled pipework, so that idea definitely sounds like a runner in the smaller scales.

Possibly PE bent into shape and a blast of high-build primer for dimensionality?

 

Started this post last night and then got waylaid by domestic duties, typing now in the early morning light with the live feed from NASA showing Artemis on TLI burn as its destination hangs above a frosty garden outside.

 

So where was I?

 

Well, beginning to suspect that the Nimbus will turn out to be a bit of a build-within-a build when it comes to the level of work required quite frankly.. With so much visible in the way of pipework and electrical harnesses - not to mention all of those other delightfully irregular components bolted on around the core in various places - I think the key will definitely be to work outward from the centre in a sequence of overlapping layers. This should (a) hopefully minimize the risk of ending up with two parts trying to occupy the same point in space, and (c), yield a realistic assembly sequence from parts later. (b) is currently left blank for me to make something up in due course if this all goes horribly wrong.

 

With the pedigree of this audience I realize that continued identification of parts on the basis of 'a bloke on Ebay called it that' is a referencing system that can only be pushed so far, so with this in mind - and suitably aghast at the sheer volume of pipework involved at this scale - I went and bought a copy of the Nimbus servicing manual:

As you can see this produced a valuable haul of the key engine features, not the least of which being detailed ( & labelled! ) maps for both the pipework and electrical runs. I still don't necessarily understand what the parts do but do at least now have the correct names for them; you takes your definition of 'progress' where ye can... (Also déjà vu at one or two of the brake disk drawings @bootneck & @perdu  😁)

 

I had begn work on some of the engine features prior to getting my grubby mitts on said documentation, with what initially I was going to call 'Mystery Object #1':

 - which Bristol Siddeley now reliably inform me is an oil pump.

 

Or more exactly, oil pump No.2

 

This distinguishes it from oil pump No.1, which has a filter on one end:

No.1 is usually hidden by shadow and intervening structure so glimpses of it in photographs are enough to let you know there is a part there but without sufficient information of shape and purpose.

 

Probably the best illustration of why I like to have manuals to back up photography in such ambiguous situations; alsdo it's nigh on impossible to work out where all the pipework under the engine goes to/returns from so the map in the manual is another lifesaver in terms of perserving authenticity.

 

'Mystery Object #2' turned out to be the fuel filter:

Almost impossible to work out from photography how exactly it is bolted onto the compressor casing so again manual drawings were vital.

 

Moving further back along the starboard side is another feature that has to be made up as brass PE is the mounting plate for the heat exchanger:

The lazy part of you is tempted to think in such situations that you could just do this up as a printed part with thicker walls and no-one would notice but tbh, even with the part thickness above at 0.1mm (slightly over the original in scale terms), you can see how trying to print it at 0.3-4mm for strength it would detract from the overall visual 'feel' - especially when trying to bluff other similar fittings like the fuel filter mount. As Bill rightly mentioned about PE being used to fake some types of feature in unrealistic ways, this is a good example of the opposite condition whereby resin would be the wrong material for the job. With printed heat exhanger details fitted however, the two sets of materials should offset each other quite nicely:

I needed a break after that session in order to study up on pipe runs, so used pare moments to pay tribute to Bill & Mike's kind researches by tidying up the rear of the rotor brake disk with any outstanding detail:

A delightfully non-regular bolt pattern to reproduce on that rear plate and another vote for PE on the rotor drive securing nut, which the tail rotor driveshaft will slip into:

'Two tug-droids manoeuvere the rear whifflegrunter unit of a Sargonian 'Asteroid Inconveniencer'- class cruiser into position':

There was no escaping the call of the pipes however and asthe oil system seems to dominate a lot of the concealed under-engine areas, it made sense to continue with the first set of runs outward from pump No.2:

You can see here how those two intersect with bracket on the side of the fuel filter. Both then subsequently extend backward in quite a convoluted fashion under the engine to plug into the bottom of the reduction gearbox -performing what the manual refers to as a 'scavenger' function - so I'll come back to those two later. Firstly I wanted to concentrate on the third pipe run behind them which goes back directly  under the engine to connect up with oil strainers on the turbine casing at the rear. I'd actually forgotten about these strainer fittings: there appear to be three of them - a prominent one on top of the engine and one less so one either side at cardinal angles, this being the one to stbd:

With those in place I could then focus on building the pipework and three-way connector which they attach to:

Al-most Raleigh Chopper handlebars...

 

Having established what was going on at either end it was then time to complete the intervening pipe run along the underside:

At this stage you're constantly having to be cvigilant with regard to the engine profile, proximity to driveshaft and engine deck as spatial  factors. The other thing to remember is to connect that pipe run to pump No.2, not No.1 as I clumsily did at first....

Recent progress in rendered form:

 

 

 

Now, where's Artemi-

Wow!

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bootneck]

Hi Tony,

 

I work at the Helicopter Museum and I am going to show your images to the Restoration Team there.  They could learn a thing or two from them!!

 

Cheers,
Mike

[Pete in Lincs]

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

'Two tug-droids manoeuvere the rear whifflegrunter unit of a Sargonian 'Asteroid Inconveniencer'- class cruiser into position':

My thoughts exactly. Please note that this is the mark three Cruiser.

 

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

performing what the manual refers to as a 'scavenger' function

Manufacturer speak for 'We know it's going to leak, so we'll bung this pipe in so it doesn't drip everywhere and then run out of lubricant'.

 

More excellent thinking and plotting, Tony. And I think Mike, @bootneck has got it about right.

[giemme]

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Recent progress in rendered form

Amazing! Impressive! Outstanding!

 

 

 

Ciao 

[keefr22]

You can just imagine, should any still be around, the designers/draughtsmen of the original engine seeing this and thinking....'I wish we'd had this black magic back then'...!!

 

Stunning work Tony, simply stunning!

 

Keith

 

 

[Navy Bird]

Excellent cloud music!     

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. Your CADing ain't too bad either...    

[Fritag]

20 hours ago, TheBaron said:

I'd actually forgotten about these strainer fittings

 

Taken out of context (who would do such a thing?) that’s a very curious phrase.  And one with troubling implications for men of a certain age…

 

Sorry, I’ve run out of useful observations.  I’m about as qualified to offer comment on Tony’s Nimbus as I am on the real thing.  Both seem to be masterpieces of engineering, and I understand them about the same.  That is not a lot 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Fritag
typo

[bigbadbadge]

More lovely details Tony. Great Jon.

Chris

[hendie]

*crawls sheepishly into the back row hoping no-one will notice*

 

masterful technical stuff Tony.  

 

Contrary to popular belief, the Wasp/Scout isn't as diminutive as people seem to think. I have my Scout placed next to other 1/48 builds and it's really not much smaller than other a/c I have in the cabinet.  In 1/24 it's going to be an attention grabbing beast, particularly with all that Triffid Nimbus stuff going on.  It's definitely worth spending the effort and time on the spaghetti detailing. 

[TheBaron]

Having just microwaved for lunch what the packaging referred to as 'French-inspired' lentils I've been teleported back to the era of (look away now @giemme) such abominations as: 

and other culinary atrocities of the 1970s. You could stretch a point and say that these lentils reminded you of France, but only to the same degree that Noel Coward insisted a perfect Martini could be made by waving a glass of gin in the general direction of Italy, 

 

On 16/11/2022 at 17:47, bootneck said:

Hi Tony,

 

I work at the Helicopter Museum and I am going to show your images to the Restoration Team there. 

*pressure intensifies..... 

 

Thanks Mike. 😁

On 16/11/2022 at 18:34, Pete in Lincs said:

My thoughts exactly. Please note that this is the mark three Cruiser.

I see that the spirit of Stewart Cowley is strong in this one. 🚀

On 16/11/2022 at 18:46, giemme said:

Amazing! Impressive! Outstanding!

Going to save that and repost it when I see you painting a Vixen Giorgio!

On 16/11/2022 at 22:58, keefr22 said:

You can just imagine, should any still be around, the designers/draughtsmen of the original engine seeing this and thinking....'I wish we'd had this black magic back then'...!!

Given that programs like Fusion are largely just digital encapsulations of the techniques those designers practiced daily in analogue form, I've no doubt many of them would have speculated quite accurately about a future in whioch they could interact with their drawings more readily Keith. This is an actual shot of one of Westland's design offices during the 1960s!

On 16/11/2022 at 23:29, Navy Bird said:

PS. Your CADing ain't too bad either...    

😁

Nobody CADs likes a Caddis Fly with precious metals though Bill:

https://leonardo.info/gallery/gallery314/duprat.html

On 17/11/2022 at 09:13, Fritag said:

Taken out of context (who would do such a thing?) that’s a very curious phrase.  And one with troubling implications for men of a certain age…

Whenever a work colleague and I (of a similar age) travel to check out equipment at a show, it's an unspoken agreement that due diligence will have been done with regard to the locations of facilities along the route...

19 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

More lovely details Tony. Great Jon.

Is that a Kent saying to call someone a 'Jon' Chris?

17 hours ago, hendie said:

^{*crawls sheepishly into the back row hoping no-one will notice*}

Look everyone - Alan's back!

(Good to have you back safe and sound my friend. )

17 hours ago, hendie said:

Contrary to popular belief, the Wasp/Scout isn't as diminutive as people seem to think.

You're not wrong! I looked at my 1/24th converted dimensions again recently and at this scale it'll be the size of a small dog.

17 hours ago, hendie said:

It's definitely worth spending the effort and time on the spaghetti detailing. 

Speaking of which:

Let me explain..... 😄

 

First though I need to own up to reading photography wrong regarding the meeting point for the two pipes which run into the oil strainers on either side of the engine. In the last update I had the three-way connector for these positioned at the mid-point below the below the turbine casing. Having now acquired an engine manual though, it can be clearly seen that this feature is actually offset to starboard, so this has now been corrected:

With that done, it was on to build the two scavenge pipes tht connect to the front of the reduction gearbox. In the last update these had been left at the mounting bracket on the side of the fuel filter; refreshingly it was a relatively straightforward task to to complete both of these pipe runs:

 

 

Around about this point (and mercifully no later in terms of what follows) I discovered also thatboth oil pumps are angled outward somewhat rather than being oriented completly vertically, which explained why I was having trouble reconciling photographic information about pipe overlaps to the spatial environment in Fusion! 

 

There's still a couple of other pipes to fit to pump no.2 at this stage but I needed to pause work on it temporarily to slip over to port and bgein connecting up pump no.1, as tis is the more complex of the two and as a consequence influences many of the fittings around it.

 

The short run of the compressor casing return pipe was a simple enough dog-leg fixture, attaching to a filter on the side of the casing:

Everything from that point onward was decidedly  non-simple in non-trivial ways...

 

The two new runs overlaying the return pipe above are the main and supplementary feed pipes, one of which is plumbed in  into the port side of the pump facing us whilst the other loops round underneath to attach to the opposite side of no.1:

Every now and again I recall that these pipes all have to avoid features like the driveshaft:

In the case of those feed pipes however, they also  have to tuck in behind the front ECU supports. I had to curve thee pipes down prematurely at the start compared to the original; pipe diameters are 0.45mm so you can see just how tight it is for space inside there.  Thankfully the supports will mask this sleight of hand.

Also emerging from pump no.1 is the return pipe for the rear compressor which also loops round the rear of pump no.1 to plug into the compressor casing:

Wasp's rich tapestry....

Also embroiled with pump no.1 are the supply pipes for the oil cooler:

In fact there are one each of these attached to both pumps:

In terms of a printing strategy for the oil system (this isn't all of it btw 🤦‍♂️) I'm working on a couple of approaches to minimize support damage and breakage of such fragile webs of parts:

Customary appendix of renders to sumamrize progress then:

 

 

 

 

 

No escaping the fact that I'm going to have to build the oil cooler next as that has to be plumbed into this lot.  No wonder they're alread calling this 'Oil Cooler Weekend'...

 

Anyway. You've been most kind to read this far.

Hope you're looking after yourself.

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[B_Bogus]

42 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

. This is an actual shot of one of Westland's design offices during the 1960s!

😁

 

I spent 5 fun-filled years in that office!!!

[perdu]

Thank you Tony for clarifying the nest of pipe-ry.

 

It will allow me to ignore them* again next time I make a Wasp or Scout but will let me know what they don't do on my models.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Mostly

[bootneck]

Wonderful stuff Tony and I am following every aspect of your designs.  I use Fusion but there is no way that I could achieve that level of detail which you are demonstrating.  I really, really want to get better at it though, and I shall keep practicing.

 

cheers,
Mike

[AdrianMF]

I've been away from this thread for a while but now I'm happy to report my cheeks* are tingling once again, after having had my gob well and truly smacked!

 

Magnificent!

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

* Perhaps, now that Ced is back, I should point out that I mean the cheeks on my face...

[Navy Bird]

4 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Nobody CADs likes a Caddis Fly with precious metals though Bill:

https://leonardo.info/gallery/gallery314/duprat.html

 

Uh, OK, although I kinda prefer sculptors of the Phydias or Polykleitos variety.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[bigbadbadge]

Lovely engine renderings Tony, great job (not Jon this time, boomin fat finger syndrome)🙄

[Pete in Lincs]

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

You've been most kind to read this far.

Always a pleasure my friend. Never a chore.

Are you sure that pipery isn't a reproduction of the London Underground somewhere near Camden?

It's all rather excellent though.

Bestest, Pete (looking forward to a three day weekend