1435 Flt F-4 XV466 - white fin?

[Kari Lumppio]

Hi!

 

Short while ago picked Aeroplane special edition British Phantoms at local mall.

 

The magazine had article about Phantoms defending Falkland. Photos of Phantom XV466 "Desperation" picked my attention.

 

Was XV466 vertical tail painted white or was it a trick of light? And was it such on both sides? One photo from port side looks like the tail is in normal gray. If there is such for F-4J(UK). Do not know if the article photos are all from the same time period.

 

Edit I stand corrected about the Phantom XV466 subtype. Mofifird the title accordingly.

 

Just curious, that's all. Is there 1/72 decals for this 1435 Flt plane?

 

Cheers,

Kari

Edited June 17, 2022 by Kari Lumppio

[Des]

XV466 was a Phantom FGR.2 not an F-4J(UK).

 

Internet search by serial should find other images although the white tail (both sides) seem to be dated around late 1991 , possibly to provide some 'in-house' aggressor training.

 

1/72 Decals - https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72290

 

 

[iainpeden]

@Kari Lumppio

You probably know that the Maltese cross marking, and flight number iirc, were linked to the Gladiators which were involved in the defence of Malta during WW2. The three Gladiators were named Faith, Hope and Charity - which transferred to the Phantoms on the Falklands, number 4 getting the name Desperation - tail codes being F,H,C and D.

 

One thing I don't know is if the names/codes moved from a/c to a/c as they came back to the UK for servicing.

 

The F-4J (UK) only served with 74 squadron and they, eventually, had black tails.

The move to coloured tails were, I think, a mixture of the desire to increase visibility following some air to air collisions in RAFG (hence Tornadoes with red and white tails) and the fighter squadrons pushing the boundaries of acceptability and getting away with it for a while.

Essentially 56 all had red tails (at the end), 74 (both J and FGR.2) were black, some 19 had blue, some 92 had red tails, XT900 of 228 OCU was blue and the Falklands a/c were white. XV428 had for a short time a blue tail and blue stripe along the fuselage but these had been removed at the time crash at Abingdon.

[Kari Lumppio]

Thanks for the answers. But was the XV466 tail white only on starboard side or were the article photos from different times?

When did 1435 Flt wore the white tails?

 

Cheers,

Kari

[iainpeden]

Kari, first point is that I am 100% sure the whole tail would have been white not just one side - can't prove it though!

As for dates, all this comes from Warpaint No.31 by Steve Hazell.

 

Profile of XV466:D dated June '92 with white tail

 

Representative a/c for 1435 flight (formed 1st November '88 and reequipped with Tornado F.3 July '92)listed as

 

1988 XV419:A     XV433:B

1989 XV438:C      XV497:D    

1990 XV461:C      XV466:D

1991 XV421:F       XV442: H

1992 XV409:H       XV472:F

 

Only representative because there were four a/c assigned, I have no idea if all four carried white tails at the same time and don't know if the tails and additional artwork was applied in the UK or the Falklands.

[RMP2]

I was told the white tail was due to an open day for the locals on the Falklands around the end of 1991/early 92 and I think there were two of the four aircraft there painted that way but my memory can be iffy and I cannot find my reference for this.

However - yes, the tail fin was painted white on both sides, that is certain.

 

EDIT: This might help a bit more - 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by RMP2

[tweeky]

The F-4J (UK) only served with 74 squadron and they, eventually, had black tails.

The move to coloured tails were, I think, a mixture of the desire to increase visibility following some air to air collisions in RAFG (hence Tornadoes with red and white tails) and the fighter squadrons pushing the boundaries of acceptability and getting away with it for a while.

 

74F sqn operated Lightnings before the F4, the Lightnings had black tails, This is why the F4J (UK) had black tails,

  

[Jabba]

On 17/06/2022 at 12:33, RMP2 said:

I was told the white tail was due to an open day for the locals on the Falklands around the end of 1991/early 92 and I think there were two of the four aircraft there painted that way but my memory can be iffy and I cannot find my reference for this.

However - yes, the tail fin was painted white on both sides, that is certain.

 

EDIT: This might help a bit more - 

 

 

According to the "Double Ugly" British Phantom Pt2 which has some words about the aircraft on the Falklands 3 aircraft were painted with white tails. This is due to the 50th anniversary of 1435Ft  and that 19 and 92 Sqns were flying about with coloured tails that the white paint was applied. The aircraft painted were XV466 (D), XV461 (C) and XV421 (F).

[RMP2]

59 minutes ago, Jabba said:

 

According to the "Double Ugly" British Phantom Pt2 which has some words about the aircraft on the Falklands 3 aircraft were painted with white tails. This is due to the 50th anniversary of 1435Ft  and that 19 and 92 Sqns were flying about with coloured tails that the white paint was applied. The aircraft painted were XV466 (D), XV461 (C) and XV421 (F).

 

Interesting. In the link I posted it appears that photo of the FGR2 in the hanger has a white tail and a H on the fin but it is rather hard to be sure and could maybe be an F. I've stared at it that long trying to work it out I'm seeing all sorts of letters on it now!

[FortyEighter]

20 hours ago, Jabba said:

According to the "Double Ugly" British Phantom Pt2 which has some words about the aircraft on the Falklands 3 aircraft were painted with white tails. This is due to the 50th anniversary of 1435Ft  and that 19 and 92 Sqns were flying about with coloured tails that the white paint was applied. The aircraft painted were XV466 (D), XV461 (C) and XV421 (F).

Having built XV466 in its 23 Sqn guise (E) I have followed up the above reference many times over the last year or so to find an alternative to model as a 1435 Flt aircraft.  To date I've only found one photo online of XV461 with a white tail (June 1991) and have still to find one for XV421 in that livery.

 

Mike

[iainpeden]

20 hours ago, RMP2 said:

 

Interesting. In the link I posted it appears that photo of the FGR2 in the hanger has a white tail and a H on the fin but it is rather hard to be sure and could maybe be an F. I've stared at it that long trying to work it out I'm seeing all sorts of letters on it now!

Personally I look at those two hanger photos and see a grey tail - it's the same a/c outside as "H" which clearly is grey.

[RMP2]

6 hours ago, iainpeden said:

Personally I look at those two hanger photos and see a grey tail - it's the same a/c outside as "H" which clearly is grey.

 

It could be grey, but the H or F on the rudder is in a dark colour, likely red as opposed to the white of the rudder letter on the "Hope" shot that is outside which may o may not suggest a white tail.

It is hard to be certain, but the letter colour had me fairly convinced.

[iainpeden]

@RMP2 A fair point which I hadn't noticed; it would have been helpful if they put the code letter on the nosewheel door!

 

Edit: I have just come across this photo of XV409:H on display. Grey tail and black code. I doubt the tail would have been repainted once white.

 

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/XV409

[RMP2]

On 6/20/2022 at 9:19 AM, iainpeden said:

 

Edit: I have just come across this photo of XV409:H on display. Grey tail and black code. I doubt the tail would have been repainted once white.

 

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/XV409

 

Ah! Then I reckon that settles it!