Ray S Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) Hello all, this may well be some silly questions! I have read some very good reports about the Finemolds Phantom range. They do an F-4J version. I know 74Sqn from the RAF used F-4J's, so my question is: is there any reason I cannot use one to produce a 74Sqn aircraft? Were there any differences between them compared to other airforces F-4J's? Would the weapons fit be different - not that I am too worried as I rarely fit weapons unless it is a Lightning. I have the old Modeldecal sheet with the 74Sqn Phantoms which would finally get some use if the answers are affirmative. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ray (I said the questions may be silly, but I am not an expert) Edited June 17, 2022 by Ray S corrected spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Hartmann Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Apart from the slime lights, AN/ALQ-126 and reinforcement plates they were pretty much the same as standard J’s Rgds Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 The RAF ones kept the slime lights. The painters at St Athan got a right telling off when the first one went ther for its major servicing and they included these in their removal of the paint with scrubbing material (can't remember what it was though). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 @Ray S there are several images of ZE360, the last (nearly) complete F-4J(UK) in RAF markings in the walkaroiund section on this site. Bear in mind that when these images were captured she had been with the fire school at RAF Manston for some time and had suffered accordingly, but had not been cut much or burned. She's now in the throes of what will be a lengthy restoration to static display condition. If you can get hold of, or access to, a copy of Linewrights' slim volume on the F-4J(UK) there are plenty of images of the jets in service, including some colour images illustrating the difference between the original American-applied camouflage and the standard RAF air defence greys (open can of worms here). Good luck with your model: I have a part-built ESCI F-4J(UK) lurking waiting for some fresh action that I really should be getting back to...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Hartmann Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Jabba said: The RAF ones kept the slime lights. The painters at St Athan got a right telling off when the first one went ther for its major servicing and they included these in their removal of the paint with scrubbing material (can't remember what it was though). US Navy J’s never had them. Only the S’s got the slime. Rgds Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 Thanks all for the replies ( @Ben Hartmann, @Jabba and @stever219), it looks as though it will be good to go, I think I will go ahead next time I am in Antics. Cheers, Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 There's this thread with some good pointers: Cheers, Andre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 Thanks @Hook for that link, it will give me some pointers, and there is another link in one of the replies too. Cheers again, Ray PS I had a closer look at my Modeldecal sheet and it has the slime lights for the aircraft on it. I will have a look at some online images and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 23 hours ago, Ben Hartmann said: US Navy J’s never had them. Only the S’s got the slime. Rgds Ben I am not doubting your word. I have just looked at the "DoubleUgly" book on British Phantoms part 2 which includes a section on the F-4Js and it says that none of the aircraft picked for conversion had been converted to S standard as the J version was closest to the British Phantoms already in service. So some J aircraft must have had the slime lights as these were not added during the conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 @Jabba, you're right that the F-4s picked for the RAF had not undergone the S conversion, which was probably why they came from such a variety of former units; however, by the time they had undergone the extensive rework they were effectively S models. Before somebody shoots me down about the S having slats, well yes BUT the Phantom at East Fortune is an S but doesn't have slats - a fact that really threw me the first time I saw her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 The book that I mentioned that aircraft chosen did not have the slats, again so that they were close to the same standard of the British cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Hartmann Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 2 hours ago, iainpeden said: Before somebody shoots me down about the S having slats, well yes BUT the Phantom at East Fortune is an S but doesn't have slats - a fact that really threw me the first time I saw her. In grave danger of straying off topic but I’ll risk it. Correct the first 40-odd F-4S conversions didn’t have the slats to rush them into service quicker and were retrofitted later. But as this airframe was retired by 1983 it missed the conversion. Rgds Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougC Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/15/2022 at 9:03 PM, Ben Hartmann said: US Navy J’s never had them. Only the S’s got the slime. Rgds Ben 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Hartmann Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, DougC said: Yes Doug….those are not US Navy J’s. Those are RAF F-4J(UK)’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougC Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Yep..... although I suspect we're talking at cross purposes here. RAF J's had slime lights but from what you're saying USN J's didn't & therefore the Finemolds J kit doesn't? Is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 And to confuse matters even more, the first 34 F-4S conversions were delivered sans slats. 😎 Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 To answer the OP, yes the FM F-4J should be able to be made into an F-4J(UK) with the addition of the slime lights (there are many kits out there that use decals to represent these and in 1/72 scale that would suffice for me). I would wait for a little while and see if FM will release an F-4J(UK) as they usually make the most of their moulds and produce as many variants as they can. They will certainly produce a standard F-4J kit which will include everything needed other than the decals and lights. Currently they have only produced a Ltd Ed US Marines version which may not have the additional AN/ALQ-126 antenna on the intakes (several of 74 Sqn's a/c didn't have them fitted either. As the RAF didn't use that RWR system the fairings were empty anyway). Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 On 6/15/2022 at 9:03 PM, Ben Hartmann said: US Navy J’s never had them. Only the S’s got the slime. Rgds Ben Vandy 1 (155539) of VX-4 certainly had them later in it's US Navy career, plenty photos out there showing them. If I'm not mistaken 5539 was one of the aircraft that was delivered to the RAF as part of the F-4J(UK) program. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 37 minutes ago, Duncan B said: Vandy 1 (155539) of VX-4 certainly had them later in it's US Navy career, plenty photos out there showing them. If I'm not mistaken 5539 was one of the aircraft that was delivered to the RAF as part of the F-4J(UK) program. Duncan B Duncan, there was more than one "F-4 Black Bunny (3 I think). The one which became ZE352:G was 153783.(Aeroguide 25: Tiger Squadron Phantom) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Eff-dash-four-jay (F-4J) or sometimes eff-four-jay-you-kay (F-4J(UK)). Use of hyphens etc is important, especially when you need to know if we're talking Wildcats or Phantoms. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Sabrejet said: Eff-dash-four-jay (F-4J) or sometimes eff-four-jay-you-kay (F-4J(UK)). Use of hyphens etc is important, especially when you need to know if we're talking Wildcats or Phantoms. Never refer to them as F-4 F.3 (please!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 16 hours ago, Jabba said: The book that I mentioned that aircraft chosen did not have the slats, again so that they were close to the same standard of the British cousins. From Phantom Spirit in the Skies by WAP. There were 302 J to S conversions planned with 248, possibly 265, completed. 47 were initially delivered without slats and survivors refitted. One of the reasons (I bet cost came into it) that the F-4J(UK) were not fitted with slats is that only so many conversion kits had been ordered and they had all been used; therefore the option was not available. At some time (probably a dark November day) I'm going to check the bu numbers for the S against what we got to see if any had gone through the initial conversion which also included engine and radar updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 On 6/15/2022 at 6:21 PM, Ray S said: Hello all, this may well be some silly questions! I have read some very good reports about the Finemolds Phantom range. They do an F4-J version. I know 74Sqn from the RAF used F-4J's, so my question is: is there any reason I cannot use one to produce a 74Sqn aircraft? Were there any differences between them compared to other airforces F4J's? Would the weapons fit be different - not that I am too worried as I rarely fit weapons unless it is a Lightning. I have the old Modeldecal sheet with the 74Sqn Phantoms which would finally get some use if the answers are affirmative. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ray (I said the questions may be silly, but I am not an expert) Which sheet is that? Ive got an Italeri F4J needs using 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, junglierating said: Which sheet is that? Ive got an Italeri F4J needs using This one, methinks. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Hartmann Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 hours ago, Duncan B said: Vandy 1 (155539) of VX-4 certainly had them later in it's US Navy career, plenty photos out there showing them. If I'm not mistaken 5539 was one of the aircraft that was delivered to the RAF as part of the F-4J(UK) program. Duncan B 5539 was an F-4S by the time it got the Bunny (1981). It was retired to AMARC in ‘86 and has sat there in the sunshine ever since. By the way, there were 5 Vandy Phantoms. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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