The journey to the front line squadron in the Fleet Air Arm.

[missile-monkey]

Once again, I have come to the great and the good for some advice. Apart from a spell during the first lock down when I had a go at painting 20mm metal figures (and had a blast) I normally model 1/72 scale aircraft.

I usually have modelling themes: aircraft of the British Pacific Fleet 1945, or Fleet Air Arm aircraft during the Suez crisis 1956, HMS Eagle air wing and rotary wing aircraft of the Royal Navy. Anyone see a pattern developing? I’m just about to start my next round of modelling now the garden is doing it’s thing and growing all my veggies for the winter.

As it’s the 40th anniversary of the unpleasantness in the South Atlantic I have decided to commemorate the occasion and honour the fallen on both sides. Rather than do the obligatory Sea Harrier, Skyhawk, Mirage etc etc I have decided to do something a bit different!

 

Imagine you are a brand-new Royal Navy fighter pilot and you have just rocked up at your first front line Sea Harrier squadron (it matters not which one) in March 1982.

My question is: What aircraft types would you have flown on your journey to the front line. Obviously, there would be the Sea Harrier T4N, maybe the Hunter T8M, the Sea Harriers on 899 NAS, but what other types during, say, BFT, AFT, OFT and Weapons courses? I would like to pick a sample of these types and model them.

I would appreciate all any and all advise and suggestions on the subject.

 

As always thank you all in advance.

Keep safe and regards

MM

[Hook]

At least Bulldog and Hawk for general flight prowess, I'd gather, with ( I assume) Hunter T.8M for radar training and Gazelle for vertical take off experience..?

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[tonywood]

Chipmunks with the Grading Flt at Roborough (Plymouth), Bulldogs at one of the RAF FTS's. Jet Provosts (hence why there is a JP in the FAA Museum collection.

[MT1]

Hi, the missing links are: Chipmunk, Jet Provost and possibly single seat Hunter at TWU (not sure when they were replaced by Hawks, I think early 80's)

[Glen]

Hi

 

Flight grading - Chipmunk (Roborough)

EFTS - Bulldog T1  (Topcliffe probably but not sure exactly when RNEFTS moved there)

BFTS - Jet Provost T3A/T5A (think all the RN students went through Linton)

AFTS - Hawk T1 (Valley. Possibly Gnat or Hunter depending when they went through)

TWU. - Hawk T1 (Brawdy or Chivenor. Possibly Hunter at Brawdy)

 

then to Wittering for Harrier training

Edited June 14, 2022 by Glen
Typo

[MT1]

The RAF Yearbook 1982 has a great piece on pilot training from 1917 to 1982. Hunters were still being used with 1 TWU along with Hawks during the period you are planning on. I was able to download a free copy from droid doc.net (I think that's the correct site, it was a year or two ago) plenty of other 'years' available too. 

 

[Selwyn]

No T4N in 1982

 

Selwyn

[dambuster]

I have a vague recollection that Harrier pilots also did a brief period at Shawbury on Gazelle? to familiarise with the ‘vertical’ bits of the flight profile….

 

However this may be a complete figment of my imagination brought on my advancing years….

 

Peter

[Hook]

15 hours ago, Hook said:

Gazelle for vertical take off experience..?

 

I have the same revollection. 

 

58 minutes ago, dambuster said:

I have a vague recollection that Harrier pilots also did a brief period at Shawbury on Gazelle? to familiarise with the ‘vertical’ bits of the flight profile….

 

However this may be a complete figment of my imagination brought on my advancing years….

 

Peter

 

[Our Ned]

17 hours ago, Selwyn said:

No T4N in 1982

 

Selwyn

899 NAS had XW927, a "borrowed" RAF Harrier T4 (not T4N) in 1981 (LRMTS nose, short fin, RWR housings on fin and tailboom, still in 233 OCU markings). (https://www.aerialvisuals.ca/AirframeDossier.php?Serial=186660)

[missile-monkey]

Gentlemen, thank you all for the prompt replies. All are very helpful.  I have a few questions if I may?

When did the TWUs change over to the Hawk? I’m guessing if I were to model a Hawk then they would be RAF machines in grey/green camo for the T1As of TWUs and red and white scheme for everything else.

 

 If I were to model the Hunters from Brawdy, what weapons would they be fitted for/with? I know Hunters in general were fitted with rockets, what about bombs or Sidewinder, given that our illustrious hero will finally qualify as a fighter pilot?

 

As Glen stated our hero would at some point go off to Wittering for Harrier training and Selwyn helpfully pointed out there was no T4N in our time frame. What type/mark of Harrier would our hero first encounter?

 

Hook and dambuster mention the Gazelle at Shawbury, given my chap is a Royal Navy pilot coming from Dartmouth initially would he go to Shawbury? Why not down to Culdrose to fly Gazelles from 705 NAS as they were back then?

 

MT1, thank you for the heads up on the RAF year book 1982 I have manged to procure a copy from a well-known auction site for the princely sum of £3 plus p&p

Once again thank you all for taking the time to help me out.

 

I've just read Our Ned's post about the Harrier T4 with 233 OCU's markings. Thank you

Regards

MM

Edited June 15, 2022 by missile-monkey
Fat fingers small keyboard...

[Selwyn]

4 hours ago, Our Ned said:

899 NAS had XW927, a "borrowed" RAF Harrier T4 (not T4N) in 1981 (LRMTS nose, short fin, RWR housings on fin and tailboom, still in 233 OCU markings). (https://www.aerialvisuals.ca/AirframeDossier.php?Serial=186660)

Must have been late 81, as it was still on strength when I left 233 OCU in October of that year.

 

Selwyn

[dambuster]

In the book ‘Teach for the Sky’ it says that trainee Harrier pilots were given 5 hrs of helicopter training to get them used to vertical profiles. As this would be for all Harrier pilots and not just Naval aviators, and as basic helicopter training took place at Shawbury both for RAF and RN pilots, it is assumed that this is where all the Harrier pilots would go.

 

Hawks started at the TWUs around 1981 so this could be too late for pilots taking part in the conflict. 
 

You probably need to work out a timeline - going back from 1982 and assume something like at least 6 months on Sqn prior to deployment, - including periods for Harrier OCU x months, TWU x months, Advanced flying trg x months, basic flying trg x months, etc, put in some dates, allow for periods holding between courses, which would provide dates which you could match up with the aircraft.

 

My suggestion would be Chipmunk, Bulldog, Jet Provost, Gnat, Hunter, (Gazelle) and Harrier. Note that Valley used both Gnat and Hunters for training, starting around 1975.
 

Peter