Bf109K-4 - Italeri/Academy

[Werdna]

Hi all - I've been looking at the 1/48 Italeri (ex-Academy?) K-4 - as this seems to be the only widely-available K-4 kit in 1/48 currently.  The other alternatives are the Hasegawa kit, which is becoming rare (and expensive) and the Fujimi kit, which is not all that good to start with.

 

Firstly, am I right in thinking this is indeed the old Academy kit?  If so, are there any drawbacks to it?  Also, there doesn't seem to be a canopy mask set available for it, unless I'm missing something.  Any thoughts on viable and (importantly) generally available K-4s in 1/48 would be welcome.  Thanks in advance    

 

 

 

 

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, Werdna said:

 

Firstly, am I right in thinking this is indeed the old Academy kit?  If so, are there any drawbacks to it?

The Academy kit is ex -Hobbycraft.   

 

Hobbycraft tended to be "inspired" by existing kits,  in this case the Revell Bf109G-10 from 1978 (which is actually very decent even now) 

there are sprue shots here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235083902-bf-109k-4/

 

Revell even did a "K-4" version, but it was just the G-10 kit with a few new bits, so no trapeziodal access panel or correct cockpit.

 

I do have a Hobbycraft K-4,  but it's buried.  

 

The panel lines are a bit more refined than the Revell, but I don't recall it having an actual K cockpit.   

 

I have heard moans about the Fujimi kit, but not seen a proper explanation of the faults.

 

My psychic power suggest a K-4 is likely to be a future project from Eduard though.... 

 

HTH

 

 

[GiampieroSilvestri]

From what I know the Italeri kit is the Fujimi kit.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

[Seawinder]

21 minutes ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:

From what I know the Italeri kit is the Fujimi kit.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Not according to Scalemates: it's Hobbycraft/Academy.

[Troy Smith]

28 minutes ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:

From what I know the Italeri kit is the Fujimi kit.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

I posted a link with sprue shots.

 

It's not the Fujimi kit, and I have the Hobbycraft and Fujimi K-4 kits.     

 

Also, I know Italeri regularly rebox Adademy kits, I have never heard of them reboxing Fujimi.

HTH

[GiampieroSilvestri]

19 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

I posted a link with sprue shots.

 

It's not the Fujimi kit, and I have the Hobbycraft and Fujimi K-4 kits.     

 

Also, I know Italeri regularly rebox Adademy kits, I have never heard of them reboxing Fujimi.

HTH

The Italeri 1/48 scale Messerschmitt Bf 110 C/D is a reboxing of the old Fujimi model as are some of the 1/72 scale Italeri models.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

[Troy Smith]

Just now, GiampieroSilvestri said:

The Italeri 1/48 scale Messerschmitt Bf 110 C/D is a reboxing of the old Fujimi model as are some of the 1/72 scale Italeri models.

Thank you. I now see why you considered it being a Fujimi rebox.   

cheers

T

[Werdna]

Thanks Troy.  I've got one of the old Academy kits on the way to me now, so I'll give it a try - nothing ventured, etc.  I've built 2 or 3 of the Fujimi kits (a couple of K-4s and a G-14/AS) - the main issue is the way they join the engine/rear cowling to the rest of the fuselage, which leaves a lot of room for error (which I generally excel at),. plus I seem to remember the gear legs are a bit on the short side, which gives the model a very 'squat' appearance.  But it certainly isn't the worst.

 

Your psychic powers seem pretty good  - I just checked and it does indeed look as though an Eduard K-4 is on the cards soon.  Their 109s are generally excellent, so hopefully this will be too.

[Troy Smith]

3 minutes ago, Werdna said:

I've got one of the old Academy kits on the way to me now, so I'll give it a try - nothing ventured, etc.

There is some info in the SAM Datafile by Lynn Ritger, if you have that? 

 

IIRC there is a problem on the tail plane, one side is either higher or further forward. 

 

One glitch inherited from the Revell G-10 is the exhaust are slightly too high up the cowl, and the cowl is little too long. 

But you have too look very very carefully to spot these.....  I did 

 

I never did finish my K-4 conversion of the Revell kit I started in, erm,  1982....   though it's still a box somewhere...   BUt was the era when i developed an unhealthy interest in late war 109's....  I'm still amazed and amused at how much more information has come to light since then,  

 

5 minutes ago, Werdna said:

I just checked and it does indeed look as though an Eduard K-4 is on the cards soon.  Their 109s are generally excellent, so hopefully this will be too.

I've seen some moaning on the Eduard kits, one complaint is the exhaust are too high, and the other they only have one type of gear leg,  I've seen whinging about the later refined cowl shapes....

 

I've not checked really carefully,  the only Eduard 109's I have an E kit, and G-6 and a G-10 Erla,  and it can be hard to sort out the cobblers about certain kits at times... let alone if it's possible to fix and how.....

21 minutes ago, Werdna said:

the main issue is the way they join the engine/rear cowling to the rest of the fuselage, which leaves a lot of room for error

I did dry fit my Fujimi kit, it seemed a clumsy way of doing the different cowls.  The Datafile suggest there is something wrong about the cowl shape, but does not go into much detail,  though unlike some other Datafiles,  Lynn Ritger does seem to know his stuff and has built most/all of the kits....

 

cheers

T

 

 

 

   

[Werdna]

4 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

The Datafile suggest there is something wrong about the cowl shape

 

I haven't checked the file, but I would guess the issue would be that the Fujimi cowl is basically the same on both sides.  As I understand it, the K-4 cowl is asymmetric.  Again though, it's the kind of thing you would need to actively search for in order to notice it...

[Troy Smith]

Just now, Werdna said:

As I understand it, the K-4 cowl is asymmetric. 

ANY 109 with a DB 605 engine using the larger  supercharger  has the 'refined' cowl, so any AS or D engine types(G-5/AS, 6/S and 14/AS, G-10 amd any K series)   and the starboard side only needs to cover the MG131 breech,  the starboard bulges is smaller and shorter.  

There was an discussion on here that the old Revell kit had the same size bulges, the starboard bulge is shorter though.   There are 3 types of refined cowling though. 

Sorry, browser is playing up so really hard to add more.   

[tempestfan]

On 5/31/2022 at 12:02 AM, Troy Smith said:

 There was an discussion on here that the old Revell kit had the same size bulges, the starboard bulge is shorter though.   

I have a Revell K-4 boxing in front of me as I type, and the bulges on both sides come up to the same point (front edge of movable canopy), and appear to have the same curve at the bottom of the rear fairing. The port side is slightly different between the exhaust deflectors and the rear edge of the engine hood, but it's very hard to see whether the "volume" is different between sides.

@Werdna, I have a couple of 1991 K-4 boxings "inherited" from a deceased magazine editor (and I agree with Troy that the kit was a "Revellation" at its time), but I guess you won't be wanting to take any customs hassle for exploring kit history 🙂

[Werdna]

1 hour ago, tempestfan said:

I have a Revell K-4 boxing in front of me as I type, and the bulges on both sides come up to the same point (front edge of movable canopy), and appear to have the same curve at the bottom of the rear fairing. The port side is slightly different between the exhaust deflectors and the rear edge of the engine hood, but it's very hard to see whether the "volume" is different between sides.

@Werdna, I have a couple of 1991 K-4 boxings "inherited" from a deceased magazine editor (and I agree with Troy that the kit was a "Revellation" at its time), but I guess you won't be wanting to take any customs hassle for exploring kit history 🙂

 

Thanks for the offer  

 

I've got an Academy kit on it's way to me currently, and after that I guess I'm happy to wait for Eduard - if their kit is as imminent as it sounds.  Not sure how much the Revell K-4 has in common with its G-10 counterpart?  I seem to remember the canopy/windscreen fit on the G-10 was pretty poor.. 

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Werdna said:

Not sure how much the Revell K-4 has in common with its G-10 counterpart?

Same kit with an extra small sprue with a long stroke tailwheel and outer UC doors IIRC.   Rest of the kit was the G-10

3 hours ago, tempestfan said:

The port side is slightly different between the exhaust deflectors and the rear edge of the engine hood, but it's very hard to see whether the "volume" is different between sides.

I'm not sure the volume is that much different,  the upper part of the bulges is the same, as that is the MG131 breech cover,  the main point is it is longer on the port side,  as this covers the engine bearer at the front,  the upper covers the curve,  the DB605 AS and D superchargers AFAIK is based upon the one of the BD603, and is a bigger diameter,  hence the curved bearer,  but I don't know it's stick out much further.  

 

The other point re the refined cowl,  the Revell kit (and thus the Hobbycraft which copies it, and thus Academy/Italeri) are based upon the Bf109 G10 that was at Planes of fame in Chino, CA, in the late 70's, and also likely the groundbreaking book by John Beaman, Last Of The Eagles,  the first serious attempt at making sense of what these late war 109's actually looked like.  

I have long proposed that the Revell G-10 was someones pet project, it was the only ones of the late 70's series of Revell kits with engraved panel lines (the other kits issued then were Spitfire II, P-40E, P-51D,  I don't know about the P-51D,  but the Spitfire and P-40E I had/have, and are decent) but the Bf109G-10 was notable for actually being accurate in most respects,  it was pointed out the exhaust are slightly too high up the cowl, and it's slightly too long, but neither are really noticeable, or that hard to fix. 

 

Note The Planes of fame G-10,  like the other two preserved G-10's are Diana built examples,  there are small differences to the WNF built ones, and the Erla built ones have a completely different cowling with different gun troughs, and other details.

The K-4 was almost entirely built by WNF,  there is one photo documented example of an Erla built K-4, which has the Erla cowl.

 

The Planes of Fame G-10 is this one

 

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/walkaround/611943/611943.htm

 

there are plenty of excellent images in the link,  many showing the cowling.

 

Back to the cowlings,  these got posted on Hyperscale by a now deceased member,  but these are the 3 types

I think the 90/100/110 are not original designations

the type 90 is the AS engine cowl

Type090Left-879x1024 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

Type 100 is the G-10 and K-4 cowl from the Diana and WNF plants, note the change in position of cold weather starter and oil filler, these are the main differences.

Type100Left-794x1024 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

the type 110 is the Erla cowl,  used  on all Erla built types with the 'refined cowling' AFAIK.

Type110Left-791x1024 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

I'll @SafetyDad  for a detail check.

 

NOTE even the blinkin' Luftwaffe had difficulty defining some of these details, eg when does a late type G-6 become a G-14 (answer.  it varies....)  and regarding the G-14/AS, G-10 there are many many subtle variations, like long/short tail legs, small/large wing bulges, multiple types of rudder  and other details I forget off hand.....

 

I've seen at least one K-4 with the circular compass hatch by the cockpit,  which shouldn't be there....(presume older subcontractor parts then used for a K-4) .   dinner calls, or more precisely me making dinner...  

 

[Werdna]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

The K-4 was almost entirely built by WNF,  there is one photo documented example of an Erla built K-4, which has the Erla cowl.

 

I've always been under the impression that all K-4s were MTT Regensburg production, except for one block, from Erla..??

[MDriskill]

This article has some excellent detail photos of a WNF-built Bf 109G-10/U4 under restoration. "Image 1" shows the striking asymmetrical cross-section shape of the conformal bulges very well.

 

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/bf109detailbg_1.htm

 

Troy, your note about the classic Revell G-10 being someone's "pet project" is very true! Giving my age away here, but the kit was first released in 1978 and I saw a test shot - in the hands of John Beaman himself - at a model contest the year before. He was an adviser to Revell for the project, and the kit's shape very closely follows the drawings in his pioneering book.

Edited June 1, 2022 by MDriskill

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Werdna said:

 

I've always been under the impression that all K-4s were MTT Regensburg production, except for one block, from Erla..??

My mistake, That's what I meant, I was doing it from memory,   despite having been a teenage 109 nut 40 odd years ago,  the different plant detail variations a reasonably new,. so not committed to memory... 

 

2 hours ago, MDriskill said:

Troy, your note about the classic Revell G-10 being someone's "pet project" is very true! Giving my age away here, but the kit was first released in 1978 and I saw a test shot - in the hands of John Beaman himself - at a model contest the year before. He was an adviser to Revell for the project, and the kit's shape very closely follows the drawings in his pioneering book.

Makes sense, as the kit does match those very well.   And I remember it coming out,  and the Scale Models write up, Dec 1978,  and the PAM (Plastic Aircraft Modelling) magazine K-4 conversion of said kit in 1979...  which is where I heard about the Last Of The Eagles, and the Monogram books....  And started to learn about the 'joys' of late war Luftwaffe camo...  mixing up paint to recipes in Scale Models.  

as an aside, still having all those magazines, and picking up other since,  how good they were. 

cheers

T

[SafetyDad]

Late to the party (again!).

 

Not much to add to the excellent responses above. The cowl terms (90, 100, 110) originally adopted by Jean-Claud Mermet were a contemporary means of differentiating the differing shapes, and (I think) predated the additional knowledge that we now have that explains the shape differences in terms of their factory of origin. The Hyperscale link posted by @MDriskill really illustrates the asymmetrical nature of the cowl bulges - it's not always that obvious in photos. As Troy says above we know a lot more now than Beaman did - there are 5 variants of the 'tall tail' for example. 

 

Like Troy, I have a soft spot for the Revell Bf 109G-10, and with good reason - it's cheap and accurate! I was unaware of the link with John Beaman but that makes perfect sense. I also recall the reception the kit received on issue - it was the first late war 109 and really made an impact. Even now the only issues that I'm aware of in shape terms are that the prop blades are a touch short. Our increasing expectations as modellers mean that the cockpit won't satisfy the ultra-fastidious now, but hey ho. I've built it, and had no problems with the windscreen/canopy fit. It assembles well and looks the part. 

 

If I recall correctly it's claimed that the Fujimi kit has the exhausts too high on the cowling but I can't see it - I've just pulled a Fujimi G-10 from the stash. They seem a little low if anything. I must have 8 or 10 of them in differing marks. The cowls are also symmetrical (which they shouldn't be). Fujimi perhaps tried too hard to wring out all of the late war variants (from G-6 to K-4 with everything in between) from a single set of fuselage moulds, so you have differing tails, lumps and bumps to add or leave off. Makes for a trickier build. There's two radio hatch covers scribed on the fuselage and you have to fill the one you don't need (curiously the rectangular G version is nicely recessed and detailed but the trapezoidal K-4 hatch is just an extra pair of panel lines on the kit and therefore not correct and that does stand out).  Lots of spare parts left over though...

 

HTH

 

SD